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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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Tigers! said:
laughing dog said:
Tigers! said:
Arctish said:

Israel's response to the terror attack in October looks grossly disproportionate.
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How many can be killed to pass that very vague 'grossly disproportionate' figure?
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Wow. To satisfy you, no more than 8,946. 00 ( pay attention to the significant digits, they are important) adults and no one under the age of 8 years.
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You are the one who claims grossly disproportionate not I.
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I gave you an answer.
Tigers said:
Let's try again.
You can say that Israel is allowed to defend itself against . What can they do against Hamas that would not cause you to claim grossly disproportionate or genocide or war crimes*

*You may not have used the term genocide but the list who have is long
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I also am claiming war crimes.

Read posts #4470, #4471 and #4473 - they detail current IDF practices that lead to civilian misery and death that seem avoidable.

Of course, if one accepts that what is currently going on has virtually nothing to do with defense, the solution appears simple.
 
‘You have been warned’: GOP senators caution ICC over Israeli arrest warrants - Live Updates - POLITICO
and
EXCLUSIVE: “You Have Been Warned”: Republican Senators Threaten the ICC Prosecutor over Possible Israel Arrest Warrants
noting
gop-senators-letter-to-icc-on-possible-israeli-arrest-warrants.pdf
We write regarding the reports that the International Criminal Court (ICC) may be considering issuing international arrest warrants against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli officials. Such actions are illegitimate and lack legal basis, and if carried out will result in severe sanctions against you and your institution.
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Then objecting that Israel has a right to respond to Hamas and that this case is outside of the ICC's jurisdiction. That is because neither the US nor Israel are participants in the ICC and because Israel has judicial processes that should be used before an ICC prosecution.
The United States will not tolerate politicized attacks by the ICC on our allies. Target Israel and we will target you. If you move forward with the measures indicated in the report, we will move to end all American support for the ICC, sanction your employees and associates, and bar you and your families from the United States. You have been warned.
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by Senators Tom Cotton, Mitch McConnell, Marsha Blackburn, Katie Boyd Britt, Ted Budd, Kevin Cramer, Ted Cruz, Bill Hagerty, Pete Ricketts, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Tim Scott
 
 
lpetrich said:
Then objecting that Israel has a right to respond to Hamas and that this case is outside of the ICC's jurisdiction. That is because neither the US nor Israel are participants in the ICC and because Israel has judicial processes that should be used before an ICC prosecution.
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I am hardly a GOP senator.
But I am basically okay with this.

Except for the part about "because neither the US or Israel are participants in the ICC" I suppose. We are not participants because they are so viciously biased. Like much of the international community.

I don't care about the opinions of the various International Pearl Clutchers, which has come to include the UN.
Tom
 
 
Seven questions (and answers) if the ICC issues arrest warrants for Israeli officials

The warrants would be for individuals, not States, governments, or political parties. Israel would not be the Defendant even though the government of Israel would no doubt challenge the authority of the ICC and vigorously defend accused Israelis.

Hamas itself would also not be the Defendant, only the specific individuals accused of committing war crimes. Interesting fact in the first answered question regarding jurisdiction. I won't say what it is, in the hopes that people will actually follow the link and read the article.
 
UNRWA seems to be lying about number of pregnant women in Gaza. They claim there are 150k pregnant women in Gaza.


But in November, that count was "only" 50k.

Are we to believe the number of pregnant women tripled since then, or is UNRWA blatantly lying?
If anything, one would expect the number of pregnant women to decrease during the time when many people are living in crowded conditions. Sex is not going to be the top priority for most couples, especially when they live cheek by jowl with their extended families.
 
Derec said:
Arctish said:
Seven questions (and answers) if the ICC issues arrest warrants for Israeli officials
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Why isn't ICC issuing arrest warrants for Hamas officials? Why are Ismail Hanniyeh et al allowed to jet between Doha and Cairo with impunity?
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Good questions. Please let us know the results of your research, especially if it turns out to be something other than what was written in answer 5.
Derec said:
Same goes for Rashida Tlaib. She wants Netanyahu to be arrested and prosecuted, but does not think any Hamas leaders should be.
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Quote, please.

And not one of those stupid memes. Link to the speech, tweet, statement, or whatever it was she said so we can all read/hear her words in context.
 
If Hamas officials deserve to be indicted for war crimes, then make that case to the ICC. Offer to work with those wanting to indict Israeli officials. Offer to arrange for Israeli and Hamas officials to share jail cells.
 
Arctish said:
The number killed isn't the only measure of proportionality, but 25:1 is pretty significant, especially when you consider that the side doing the most killing has the ability to do precise targeting of individual persons.
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The ratio 25:1 is the ratio between Gazan and Israeli dead. What was the ratio for the US War on Terror?

If the report that the IDF allows the killing of 20 civilians in order to kill one suspected low level operative is accurate, then those numbers make sense. It means the IDF is murdering families, neighbors, and random Gazans as a matter of course.
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Do they? IDF says they killed more than 15k fighters. At 20 civilians to a fighter, that would mean >300k dead Gazans. Obviously that figure is made up. It seems about half of the dead are fighters. That's a pretty good ratio, esp. given that terror fighters hide among and under the civilians. Even fighting from inside hospitals.
 

Derec said:
Arctish said:
The number killed isn't the only measure of proportionality, but 25:1 is pretty significant, especially when you consider that the side doing the most killing has the ability to do precise targeting of individual persons.
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The ratio 25:1 is the ratio between Gazan and Israeli dead. What was the ratio for the US War on Terror?

If the report that the IDF allows the killing of 20 civilians in order to kill one suspected low level operative is accurate, then those numbers make sense. It means the IDF is murdering families, neighbors, and random Gazans as a matter of course.
Click to expand...
Do they? IDF says they killed more than 15k fighters. At 20 civilians to a fighter, that would mean >300k dead Gazans. Obviously that figure is made up. It seems about half of the dead are fighters. That's a pretty good ratio, esp. given that terror fighters hide among and under the civilians. Even fighting from inside hospitals.
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According to Wiki, approximately 170K Iraqi civilians were killed when we invaded. Not sure how many Iraqi soldiers were killed. I couldn't find the number. Of course, Hamas is deliberately embedded with civilians, so civilian deaths will be much higher. Secondly, close quarters urban area always results in higher civilian deaths. Finally, I think that Israel is far more justified in attacking Hamas than the US was in attacking Iraq. Hamas brutally attacked Israel first. We attacked Iraq because we thought that they might attack us in the future.
 
Harry Bosch said:

Derec said:
Arctish said:
The number killed isn't the only measure of proportionality, but 25:1 is pretty significant, especially when you consider that the side doing the most killing has the ability to do precise targeting of individual persons.
Click to expand...
The ratio 25:1 is the ratio between Gazan and Israeli dead. What was the ratio for the US War on Terror?

If the report that the IDF allows the killing of 20 civilians in order to kill one suspected low level operative is accurate, then those numbers make sense. It means the IDF is murdering families, neighbors, and random Gazans as a matter of course.
Click to expand...
Do they? IDF says they killed more than 15k fighters. At 20 civilians to a fighter, that would mean >300k dead Gazans. Obviously that figure is made up. It seems about half of the dead are fighters. That's a pretty good ratio, esp. given that terror fighters hide among and under the civilians. Even fighting from inside hospitals.
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According to Wiki, approximately 170K Iraqi civilians were killed when we invaded. Not sure how many Iraqi soldiers were killed. I couldn't find the number. Of course, Hamas is deliberately embedded with civilians, so civilian deaths will be much higher. Secondly, close quarters urban area always results in higher civilian deaths. Finally, I think that Israel is far more justified in attacking Hamas than the US was in attacking Iraq. Hamas brutally attacked Israel first. We attacked Iraq because we thought that they might attack us in the future.
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Very few died in the Iraq invasion. The US was able to convince the Iraqi military to stand down. The dying occurred starting a few weeks after things were all rosy and the W Admin showing it had no idea how to manage running Iraq, and those deaths were from sectarian violence.

Regarding civilian casualties, I can't imagine Derec feeling likewise about the police taking out 25 civilians for every terrorist it killed in the US. This truly is the depraved amount of empathy that is provided by some for the Gazans.
Derec said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
We do not observe this.
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Maybe because data provided by the Hamas health ministry are rubbish?
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There is evidence of mass graves in Gaza. Can we at least agree that if there are mass graves that that is an indication of foul play by whomever is responsible for them?
 
Arctish said:
Derec said:
Arctish said:
Seven questions (and answers) if the ICC issues arrest warrants for Israeli officials
Click to expand...
Why isn't ICC issuing arrest warrants for Hamas officials? Why are Ismail Hanniyeh et al allowed to jet between Doha and Cairo with impunity?
Click to expand...

Good questions. Please let us know the results of your research, especially if it turns out to be something other than what was written in answer 5.
Derec said:
Same goes for Rashida Tlaib. She wants Netanyahu to be arrested and prosecuted, but does not think any Hamas leaders should be.
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Quote, please.

And not one of those stupid memes. Link to the speech, tweet, statement, or whatever it was she said so we can all read/hear her words in context.
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Well, she wouldn't be the only one. Wasn't he already indicted, and he was working on fixing the courts to get out of that trouble when Hamas caught him with his pants down?
 
Derec said:
ZiprHead said:
Recruit or enslave?
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What evidence do you have that the minors fighting for Hamas and other terror groups are anything but willing participants?
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Child soldiers in Palestinian groups:forced recruitment and use of minors as a violation of International Humanitarian Law

Abstract

The forced recruitment and use of children has become one of the main forms of violation of children’s rights in recent years. It is a phenomenon characterised by its heterogeneity, given the breadth of war scenarios, the recruitment and training processes, and the multitude of roles for which children are recruited. In this context, Palestinian groups have been denounced for decades for involving children in their violent campaigns, as well as training and using them for armed action. This article explores the phenomenon of child soldiers through the lens of violations of International Humanitarian Law and the specific case of the forced recruitment and use of children by Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian National Authority.
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Derec said:
Arctish said:
The number killed isn't the only measure of proportionality, but 25:1 is pretty significant, especially when you consider that the side doing the most killing has the ability to do precise targeting of individual persons.
Click to expand...
The ratio 25:1 is the ratio between Gazan and Israeli dead. What was the ratio for the US War on Terror?

If the report that the IDF allows the killing of 20 civilians in order to kill one suspected low level operative is accurate, then those numbers make sense. It means the IDF is murdering families, neighbors, and random Gazans as a matter of course.
Click to expand...
Do they? IDF says they killed more than 15k fighters. At 20 civilians to a fighter, that would mean >300k dead Gazans. Obviously that figure is made up. It seems about half of the dead are fighters. That's a pretty good ratio, esp. given that terror fighters hide among and under the civilians. Even fighting from inside hospitals.
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Since even LP says Israel lies, shy accept their estimates as valid?
 
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