Humans are "very inclined" towards mistakes, delusions, lies, self-harm, ignorance, stupidity.

[bilby]

I’d guess he doesn’t believe in the theory of evolution

I don't believe in the theory of evolution.

I understand the theory of evolution to be a true and accurate explaination for the diversity of life we observe. So you could resonably say that I believe the theory of evolution.

But when we say someone "believes in" something, that goes beyond merely believing something - it implies not just belief, but trust, faith, and an expectation of reliable support, or future success, from something.

It makes sense to believe in our friends. It is usually sensible to believe in our professional colleagues. But it's rather silly to believe in gods, given their abject failure to provide support for anything; And it's patently absurd to believe in a scientific theory, which is completely amoral and disinterested in our future success.

Lion believes in God, and likely doesn't understand the theory of evolution well enough to have a useful opinion about it.

I wouldn't be shocked to discover that his useless opinion of it is that it isn't sufficient or complete enough to fully explain why life is as diverse as it's observed to be. Because he needs a gap to try to squeeze his imaginary, unnecessary, and ineffectual God into.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

This is a quote I wanted to post the other day, but the thread disappeared for me.
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal" - Robert A. Heinlein

 

[rousseau]

This thread seems to be an opinion poll as to whether humans should (by and large) be viewed as basically inclined to favor rational, enlightened, altruistic, wise, collective good will, or the opposite - inclined to NOT behave that way, or favour that approach.

I'd say most people favor rational thought, and most people believe that they do think rationally given what they know. But the original question wasn't about preference, it was about what they actually do.

If it helps, I'd call most people quite competent and able. But very few of us are predisposed to learn anything about the world around us beyond what we're taught by people in our community. So the surrounding, cultural ethos usually acts as an upper limit on an individual's ability to reason.

But it's a spectrum, not a binary, some of us learn faster than others, some of us never really learn anything. It's those who don't learn much of anything that are inclined to mistakes and delusions.

 

[Lion IRC]

I'd say most people favor rational thought...

Yes. They are inclined to do so.

...and most people believe that they do think rationally given what they know.

Yes. And the reason they think that is because thats what they try to do.

But the original question wasn't about preference, it was about what they actually do.

I think you've misunderstood the original claim by TomC.

But even if its a measure of outcomes rather than intentions/inclinations, I still think that historically, humans have been advancing, not going backwards.

There's a long-term dimension to the question. TomC seems to have a myopic view which cherry picks outliers such as the Crusades, Nazism....

These are an anathema to most rational, enlightened humans.

If it helps, I'd call most people quite competent and able.

....and inclined towards that outcome.

People by and large understand that incompetence and stupidity aren't helpful to their well-being

But very few of us are predisposed to learn anything about the world around us beyond what we're taught by people in our community.

What we are "taught by people in our community" is the accumulated wisdom of that community. And increasingly, our community is global.

So your admission that we are disposed or predisposed towards learning conflicts with TomC's proposition.

So the surrounding, cultural ethos usually acts as an upper limit on an individual's ability to reason.

The only examples of a cultural ethos which would try to limit our desire (inclination) to act rationally and reasonably would be....The Crusades, The Nazis, The KKK, undemocratic totalitarian police states like the USSR, Communist China, North Korea, The Taliban, etc.

Are most people "very inclined" to want to live under such regimes?

But it's a spectrum, not a binary, some of us learn faster than others, some of us never really learn anything.

Note that the multiple choice poll options at the head of the Op recognizes that there's a spectrum. And I don't think TomC would assert that ALL humans ALWAYS meet the description of being "very inclined" that way.

It's those who don't learn much of anything that are inclined to mistakes and delusions.

The minority.