IMMUNITY and SCOTUS

[Elixir]

Is anyone else as embarrassed as I am by the four idiots, led by Alito, who have made a circus out of trying to accomodate Trump?
The so-called "immunity question" is not an immunity question AFAICS, it's a platform for delaying the prosecution of a treasonous authoritarian wannabe.
Justice Ketanji Jackson observed quite simply that the emperor has no clothes. While they wrangle on about the dangers of Presidents past present and future having or NOT having immunity from prosecution, it seems forgotten that we have had 46 presidents, none of whom had any special immunity because they didn't need it. Justice Jackson brought it back down to earth like the little girl observing that the emperor is butt naked, simply saying
"why don't we decide, yes or no, whether the plaintiff has immunity in this case?"

There is absolutely no reason to take a foray into future hypotheticals that have never been an issue for 46 presidencies.
The honest answer is, that if they did their job - which is ONLY to decide whether Trump does or does not have immunity in this case - Trump would have no immunity because there is no excuse for giving him any such immunity. The cases against him would go to trial before the election and he would lose. So they have reduced the Supreme Court of The United States to a charade, performing a delay exercise to assist a demented, treasonous gasbag in his effort to destroy American Democracy.

Thoughts?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There are a number of complaints. The Alt-Right SCOTUS was tangling itself in knots over the long-term repercussions of this decision. I think Gorsuch was asking what needed to be done, and I'm thinking that nothing has to be done, no standard has to be set. They can simply say that the Appellate Court decision wasn't in error. They don't need to rule on immunity at all. But they did accept the case. So them complaining about resolution when they took the damn case up in the first place is disingenuous.

And the worst part was that the Alt-Right justices weren't even discussing Trump. Trump's actions seemed to be universally understood as corrupt. So, the question becomes how corrupt are the alt-right Justices? Their worries about the poor future Presidents, as if any prosecution of a former President in the future isn't going to SCOTUS at some point.

 

[rousseau]

First thing I thought of was this Onion article:

'What You're Doing Is Weird And Wrong,' Small Voice In Back Of Kim Jong-Un's Head Reports

 

[Elixir]

They don't need to rule on immunity at all. But they did accept the case. So them complaining about resolution when they took the damn case up in the first place is disingenuous.

Yup. It is blindingly obvious that only the intent to litigate from the bench was driving that corrupt decision.

And the worst part was that the Alt-Right justices weren't even discussing Trump.

Which is THEIR FUCKING JOB.
He is the plaintiff asking for immunity in this specific case. If the Court was not entirely disingenuous in taking up the case, they could decide it in an afternoon;

Q: does trump have immunity from the charges against him?

That is the only question before them.

A: yes or no
Case concluded.

But noooo … they gotta protect their benefactors.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Elie Mystal's prediction last night, on The ReidOut: SCOTUS won't endorse the Trump team argument, which would take them (the 6 conservatives) so far out of Constitutional principles as to destroy whatever credibility they still have. Instead, they'll issue a ruling saying that the lower court did not sufficiently cover all the hypotheticals concerning a President's actions, and then remand it back to the lower court, ordering them to produce a more detailed ruling. No trial this year. This of course would let a victorious Trump (if our luck is truly this bad), in January, inaugurate an authoritarian regime and kill off all federal indictments.
It's all too believable. Elie sometimes foams at the mouth, but here I think he's got good sense.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

SCOTUS Ruling

No President is above the law, but...

 

[Elixir]

they'll issue a ruling saying that the lower court did not sufficiently cover all the hypotheticals concerning a President's actions, and then remand it back to the lower court, ordering them to produce a more detailed ruling. No trial this year.

Right, and of course that’s the objective. It amazes me that the Court is so contemptuous of the American people that they think none of us can see through this charade.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

It's terrifying. If the Court says he has immunity it opens up the country to a swift decline into authoritarian theocracy. I don't think it's hyperbolic to say that because if Trump retakes the White House, there's not going to be a learning curve. There's not going to be disorganized know-nothing bozos floundering from one moment to the next. The repercussions will be swift and bloody.

This is insane.

It also brings up a legitimate question as to what actions Biden should take if the Court finds for Trump. Suddenly the benevolent dictator theory comes into play--at least IMO--e.g., if Biden could prevent great harm by taking violent action against his political opponents under this new immunity theory, should he?

 

[TV and credit cards]

Brookings has a little write up on the various shit Team Trump threw at the wall hoping enough justices would pick up on one or another for a favorable ruling.

Trump v. United States: Can presidents get away with anything? | Brookings

Trump v. United States calls upon the U.S. Supreme Court to decide upon the future on presidential immunity.

www.brookings.edu

 

[Shadowy Man]

Alito's argument seemed to be that the President needs immunity in case the entire justice system is so corrupt, from the attorney general down to the grand jurors, that the only way to protect the President from unjust prosecution is to give him immunity.

Jaw-dropping craziness. But, then again, this is the justice who needed to quote 17th century lawyers to support his opinion against Roe v Wade.

 

[Elixir]

if Biden could prevent great harm by taking violent action against his political opponents under this new immunity theory, should he?

I keep envisioning the certification of an election that Trump/Putin won. Kami saying “my duty as VP is to refuse certification of a traitor” (in more appropriate words of course) and goes on to declare Biden the winner. What does Trump say then? Will SCOTUS be okay with Biden locking him up or having him … uh. … neutralized? Can we litigate it for a decade or two, so Sleepy Joe can die a free man?

I be am SO disgusted with these authoritarians and their enablers, I am actually hoping someone … maybe some terminally ill person… will decide to take one for the team, and neutralize the immediate threat.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

if Biden could prevent great harm by taking violent action against his political opponents under this new immunity theory, should he?

I keep envisioning the certification of an election that Trump/Putin won. Kami saying “my duty as VP is to refuse certification of a traitor” (in more appropriate words of course) and goes on to declare Biden the winner. What does Trump say then? Will SCOTUS be okay with Biden locking him up or having him … uh. … neutralized? Can we litigate it for a decade or two, so Sleepy Joe can die a free man?

I be am SO disgusted with these authoritarians and their enablers, I am actually hoping someone … maybe some terminally ill person… will decide to take one for the team, and neutralize the immediate threat.

My thinking on this is pretty grim and ruthless, so I'll spare details, but I think Biden would need to take action prior to then.

We're on the precipice. If Trump regains the White House, this nation is fucked. The Evangelicals will put up with Trump for however long and then they'll be running the show. We'll be a modern Christian fundamentalist state--something akin the Christian version of Iran. Our leaders will just be wearing different attire.

 

[Elixir]

Our leaders will just be wearing different attire.

So will I. Different colors, different flag, different location.
I have a realtor coming next month to start laying the groundwork.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Our leaders will just be wearing different attire.

So will I. Different colors, different flag, different location.
I have a realtor coming next month to start laying the groundwork.

I looked into moving to Canada awhile back, but I don't think they'd take me. It turns out it's a lot more difficult than I'd expected. I've always loved British Columbia (rainy and green but little snow), so maybe I should've made the effort back then. But damn, the timing was just bad.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

if Biden could prevent great harm by taking violent action against his political opponents under this new immunity theory, should he?

I keep envisioning the certification of an election that Trump/Putin won. Kami saying “my duty as VP is to refuse certification of a traitor” (in more appropriate words of course) and goes on to declare Biden the winner. What does Trump say then? Will SCOTUS be okay with Biden locking him up or having him … uh. … neutralized? Can we litigate it for a decade or two, so Sleepy Joe can die a free man?

I be am SO disgusted with these authoritarians and their enablers, I am actually hoping someone … maybe some terminally ill person… will decide to take one for the team, and neutralize the immediate threat.

And that brings up a whole 'nother can of worms. Why only the Prez? Aren't there other high officials who also need immunity to do their jobs? There is literally no end to the number of public officials who will need immunity so they can now legally break the law.

 

[Elixir]

if Biden could prevent great harm by taking violent action against his political opponents under this new immunity theory, should he?

I keep envisioning the certification of an election that Trump/Putin won. Kami saying “my duty as VP is to refuse certification of a traitor” (in more appropriate words of course) and goes on to declare Biden the winner. What does Trump say then? Will SCOTUS be okay with Biden locking him up or having him … uh. … neutralized? Can we litigate it for a decade or two, so Sleepy Joe can die a free man?

I be am SO disgusted with these authoritarians and their enablers, I am actually hoping someone … maybe some terminally ill person… will decide to take one for the team, and neutralize the immediate threat.

And that brings up a whole 'nother can of worms. Why only the Prez? Aren't there other high officials who also need immunity to do their jobs? There is literally no end to the number of public officials who will need immunity so they can now legally break the law.

Nobody "needs" immunity from the law except criminals. What part of that is beyond the fabled intellect of SCOTUS Justices?

If you want to immunize a president from an existing law you need to modify or amend that law so it says in effect "no person shall murder polliticians EXCEPT THE PRESIDENT..." for example.

That way, you can still arrest him for stealing and selling top secret information or whatever, after his term expires.

 

[Tigers!]

Our leaders will just be wearing different attire.

So will I. Different colors, different flag, different location.
I have a realtor coming next month to start laying the groundwork.

I looked into moving to Canada awhile back, but I don't think they'd take me. It turns out it's a lot more difficult than I'd expected. I've always loved British Columbia (rainy and green but little snow), so maybe I should've made the effort back then. But damn, the timing was just bad.

On these fora people have been claiming that they would move to another county if X was ever elected since GW Bush. Did anyone actually move?
Was it all just virtue signalling and hot air?

 

[Elixir]

Our leaders will just be wearing different attire.

So will I. Different colors, different flag, different location.
I have a realtor coming next month to start laying the groundwork.

I looked into moving to Canada awhile back, but I don't think they'd take me. It turns out it's a lot more difficult than I'd expected. I've always loved British Columbia (rainy and green but little snow), so maybe I should've made the effort back then. But damn, the timing was just bad.

On these fora people have been claiming that they would move to another county if X was ever elected since GW Bush. Did anyone actually move?
Was it all just virtue signalling and hot air?

Yeah, some have. Those I knew “moved” to Portugal, Costa Rica, Canada and Mexico. I don’t think any gave up US citizenship, but don’t know for sure.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

On these fora people have been claiming that they would move to another county if X was ever elected since GW Bush. Did anyone actually move?
Was it all just virtue signalling and hot air?

And a lot of people don't realize how hard it is.

 

[Tigers!]

On these fora people have been claiming that they would move to another county if X was ever elected since GW Bush. Did anyone actually move?
Was it all just virtue signalling and hot air?

And a lot of people don't realize how hard it is.

Which is a back-handed way of acknowledgement that it was just virtue signalling and hot air.