• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Virginia school board votes to restore Confederate names to two schools

TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
I didn't think the Ghost Cadet was Black. I've taken a second look and I see that there are some few features that are associated with Blackness and African Americans.
Click to expand...
Honestly, between the illustration and the description of the cadet as owning a gold watch family heirloom the idea that he was black never entered my mind.
Tom
Click to expand...

But the context here is feeding false information and presenting it as "preservation of history" and so many things that are unlikely become more likely when you start with false information and choose to propagate it.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
I didn't think the Ghost Cadet was Black. I've taken a second look and I see that there are some few features that are associated with Blackness and African Americans.
Click to expand...
Honestly, between the illustration and the description of the cadet as owning a gold watch family heirloom the idea that he was black never entered my mind.
Tom
Click to expand...

But the context here is feeding false information and presenting it as "preservation of history" and so many things that are unlikely become more likely when you start with false information and choose to propagate it.
Click to expand...
The context here is adventure fiction for youngsters. My standards for accuracy are pretty low.
To me, it's a lot like "Roots". Lots of it was inaccurate too. But it was a great story.
Tom
 
TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
I didn't think the Ghost Cadet was Black. I've taken a second look and I see that there are some few features that are associated with Blackness and African Americans.
Click to expand...
Honestly, between the illustration and the description of the cadet as owning a gold watch family heirloom the idea that he was black never entered my mind.
Tom
Click to expand...

But the context here is feeding false information and presenting it as "preservation of history" and so many things that are unlikely become more likely when you start with false information and choose to propagate it.
Click to expand...
The context here is adventure fiction for youngsters. My standards for accuracy are pretty low.
Click to expand...

No, that's not the context for the thread and the Lost Cause ideology persists not only in the thread but also in that fictional book.

Did you not notice the screenshot calling it a "historical novel?"
 
Ok, I found a better picture. Yea, the kid looks white. It was just the translucency and the tree behind him made him look darker that the living kid, even tho ghosts are supposed to be pale.


ghost.jpg
 
laughing dog said:
I suspect there was a dramatic turnover of the e
school board in the last election to cause such a quick and dramatic reversal. I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg in dumbness to come.
Click to expand...

I agree with your suspicion, i.e. my suspicion as well. I will add a broader one, too, that just like at other historical peaks of naming things to Confederate names, there's a pushback now associated with anti-racism as well as Trump losing the election. There are many school boards taken over by more extremist Republicans, anti-CRT legislation written, and this restoration might be part of that whole trend. To "Make America Great Again" is like the 1950s or 1960s or some other vague mythical period, much like the last resurgence of the religion of the Lost Cause.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
No, that's not the context for the thread and the Lost Cause ideology persists not only in the thread but also in that fictional book.

Did you not notice the screenshot calling it a "historical novel?"
Click to expand...
I still think that the key word there is "novel".
Of these choices:
Sci-fi
Romance
Fantasy
Detective
Historical
Horror
which one do you think best describes the book?

I'm more concerned about the quality of the history texts and materials used in the school. What I was taught was extremely whitewashed. I want that improved.

Similarly, I don't much care about what the locals decided to name the school. I'm much more interested in the degree of academic rigor and keeping order. I think naming a school after some military dude is dumb, I don't care which one. Oh well.
Tom
 
TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
No, that's not the context for the thread and the Lost Cause ideology persists not only in the thread but also in that fictional book.

Did you not notice the screenshot calling it a "historical novel?"
Click to expand...
I still think that the key word there is "novel".
Of these choices:
Sci-fi
Romance
Fantasy
Detective
Historical
Horror
which one do you think best describes the book?
Click to expand...

Fantasy. You could call it fantasy, historical fiction, if you like, just not promoted to teachers to use it in a classroom with packets and call it "award-winning historical novel." You can't leave out the word fiction, that is a lie by omission.

TomC said:
I'm more concerned about the quality of the history texts and materials used in the school. What I was taught was extremely whitewashed. I want that improved.
Click to expand...

BUT that's the exact problem, white-washing. That's what is being discussed whitewashed with Lost Cause ideology.

TomC said:
Similarly, I don't much care about what the locals decided to name the school. I'm much more interested in the degree of academic rigor and keeping order. I think naming a school after some military dude is dumb, I don't care which one. Oh well.
Tom
Click to expand...

Well, it had been named Mountain View, not Che Guevara High School. Perhaps you should tell them to change it to Albert Einstein High School, but I don't think they'll appreciate it because they're trying to Make America Great Again.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Fantasy. You could call it fantasy, historical fiction, if you like, just not promoted to teachers to use it in a classroom with packets and call it "award-winning historical novel." You can't leave out the word fiction, that is a lie by omission.
Click to expand...
The word novel means fiction. And it is historical. Extremely incomplete history I have no doubt. But kids literature is rarely an indepth look at anything.
Maybe what you're after is a good old fashioned book burning?
Tom
 
TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Fantasy. You could call it fantasy, historical fiction, if you like, just not promoted to teachers to use it in a classroom with packets and call it "award-winning historical novel." You can't leave out the word fiction, that is a lie by omission.
Click to expand...
The word novel means fiction.
Click to expand...

The word novel is used increasingly more and more to refer to fiction and non-fiction, such as for example "autobiographical novel."

TomC said:
And it is historical. Extremely incomplete history I have no doubt. But kids literature is rarely an indepth look at anything.
Click to expand...

Not merely incomplete, but cherry-picked so as to not mention slaves, and not merely incomplete, but also inaccurate so as to include Lost Cause ideology--the thing you keep trying not to talk about.

TomC said:
Maybe what you're after is a good old fashioned book burning?
Click to expand...

Right, accuse me of being the bad guy for pointing out the white-washing you said you were against, but aren't. You haven't said anything about Lost Cause ideology at all, you keep changing the subject to other things and now finally to me, accusing me of being a book burner. When will you address it?
 
TomC said:
Cheerful Charlie said:
November 15. General Sherman's March To The Sea begins. This year, I am going to celebrate this day.
Click to expand...
While we are celebrating epic human disasters, how about Aug 6?
Hiroshima Day!
Go America!
Tom
Click to expand...

One of the reasons for Sherman's march to the sea was to avoid the massive casualties many savage Civil War battles produced.

.....
In short, the March to the Sea demonstrates not that Sherman was a brute, but that he wanted to wage a war that did not result in countless deaths. He saw destruction of property as less onerous than casualties. It is estimated that during the six-week March to the Sea fewer than 3,000 casualties resulted. Compared to the 51,000 killed, wounded and missing at Gettysburg in the three days of fighting there or the 24,000 in the two days at Shiloh, the month-long March to the Sea was nearly bloodless.
.....
www.battlefields.org

Sherman's March to the Sea

This is an analysis of Major General William Tecumseh Sherman and his scorched-earth tactics employed during the "March to the Sea".
www.battlefields.org www.battlefields.org
 
September 8, 1642
Plymouth Colony
Thomas Granger (age 16 or 17) was hanged for unnatural congress with "a mare, a cow, two goats, divers sheep, two calves, and a turkey." His barnyard paramours were also done to death.
Thomas Granger Secondary Academy
Curriculum: Nondiscriminatory and multidiscipline hands-on learning.
We emphasize student initiative, creativity, and respect for diversity.
Carrying America's youth forward...with a reverence for our past. (Did Stonewall Jackson have as much as a kind word for his horse?)
 
TomC said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
TomC said:
While the Confederate soldiers were defending themselves and their homes and families.
Click to expand...
And slavery. Correct?
Click to expand...
I don't know, but I doubt it.
I also doubt that the invaders were doing it to rescue black folks who they despised.

I think they were doing it for reasons similar to why a bunch of Americans went to Vietnam and Iraq.
Tom
Click to expand...
The confederate soldiers were certainly defending their homes and families and an economic system that required enslaving people. Slavery in the south constituted a business, probably viewed not much differently than northerners viewed their railroads.
 
TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
TomC said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
I didn't think the Ghost Cadet was Black. I've taken a second look and I see that there are some few features that are associated with Blackness and African Americans.
Click to expand...
Honestly, between the illustration and the description of the cadet as owning a gold watch family heirloom the idea that he was black never entered my mind.
Tom
Click to expand...

But the context here is feeding false information and presenting it as "preservation of history" and so many things that are unlikely become more likely when you start with false information and choose to propagate it.
Click to expand...
The context here is adventure fiction for youngsters. My standards for accuracy are pretty low.
Click to expand...
Yup.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
laughing dog said:
I suspect there was a dramatic turnover of the e
school board in the last election to cause such a quick and dramatic reversal. I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg in dumbness to come.
Click to expand...

I agree with your suspicion, i.e. my suspicion as well. I will add a broader one, too, that just like at other historical peaks of naming things to Confederate names, there's a pushback now associated with anti-racism as well as Trump losing the election. There are many school boards taken over by more extremist Republicans, anti-CRT legislation written, and this restoration might be part of that whole trend. To "Make America Great Again" is like the 1950s or 1960s or some other vague mythical period, much like the last resurgence of the religion of the Lost Cause.
Click to expand...

And so it begins....?

www.potomaclocal.com

Poll Results: Majority call for restoring Stonewall Jackson's Name to High School - Potomac Local News

Potomac Local News recently conducted a poll asking readers whether Prince William County Public Schools should restore Stonewall Jackson's name to Unity Reed High School near Manassas.
www.potomaclocal.com www.potomaclocal.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom