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Atheists likely to be wealthier

~R

One can quote mine both philosophy and and scripture to support a narrative or point of view. Neither proves anything.

It has been about 50 years since I read Nietzsche. For every historical philosopher you quote I can find an historical philosophers counter to your claim.


What is Friedrich Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity? What are his criticisms about the belief in God?

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote Thus Spoke Zarathustra to explain his philosophical views on life and humanity. In the novel, Nietzsche provides a critique of Christianity, criticizing the Christian idea of what humans are, the belief in God, and the concept of virtue.

Read on to learn about Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity, according to Thus Spoke Zarathustra.
 
Not to brag, but I helped an old gentleman with impaired vision across a busy street today -- held on to his arm and guided him on his way, on the other side. Maybe that'll teach him to guard his wallet better.
 
~R

One can quote mine both philosophy and and scripture to support a narrative or point of view. Neither proves anything.

It has been about 50 years since I read Nietzsche. For every historical philosopher you quote I can find an historical philosophers counter to your claim.


What is Friedrich Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity? What are his criticisms about the belief in God?

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote Thus Spoke Zarathustra to explain his philosophical views on life and humanity. In the novel, Nietzsche provides a critique of Christianity, criticizing the Christian idea of what humans are, the belief in God, and the concept of virtue.

Read on to learn about Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity, according to Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

This is the level of discussion I had hoped to have, going over the thoughts of the great thinkers. Instead, we get cracker barrel philosophers barking old saws pretending that they are true originals. When we want to cut down a tree, we don't think we have to invent the tool to do so. So why, when it comes to working with ideas, do people eschew the tools that are readily available, the treasury of great thoughts by the great thinkers, and instead put out whatever comes off the top of their heads and call it original thinking?
 
For Spinoza, atheism and materialism were pretty much synonymous. This is quite insightful.
It's how they used the word back then and too many persons still do.

Probably most atheists are spiritual but few would use the word. IMO if they're able to be selfless and rapt with wonder at nature, science, art, et al, what more's needed?

I rarely encounter a spiritual christian though. It's like their religion kills it in them, by getting addicted to belief instead of opening up to experience and letting it lead the way.

Now, there are certainly exceptions, people whom we might call spiritual atheists. We might count Spinoza in this group.

I count him in that group. And Einstein. And myself (so I'm in good company!).

Also some of the living philosophers I enjoy reading most. Christof Koch wrote Then I Am Myself the World: What Consciousness Is and How to Expand It. To me the topics covered are what essential "spirituality" looks like, when given a "left-brain" analytical treatment. "Spiritual" because he seeks facts first, then suggests applications to improve folk's lives, and life on earth. (In place of begging a god to do the work for them).

If we do that, however, we would really have to open it up: Moses, Hegel, Jesus, Marx. In fact, Judaism and its offspring, Christianity and Islam, are essentially of this nature. The Shema states, "Hear, Israel, existence is your god, existence is one." This insight is not acceptable to most of the denizens of this forum because they seek to condemn religion in its essence, which compels them to ignore the claim that religion is essentially correct, and that what it needs is not condemnation, but true understanding.

More likely they find "spirituality" in science instead of mysticism, and don't know what the "Something More" is that some of us talk about. And it's not their fault if people who choose to talk about that are too vague to be intelligible.

Also, how can they understand if we "spiritual atheists" won't drop the theism-words?

I don't see "God is existence" as "religion in its essence". I've looked for the "baby in the bathwater" in religions, and feel I found it in mystics like Meister Eckhart, Rumi, Bhakti poets, some Zennists, et al. But IMV this is not religion's essence.

The essence of religion is superstition, people wanting to escape reality via 'believing real hard'. The superstitionists are not the corrupters of religion, they're the originators. The exceptions to this are outliers to religion -- they're the ones the religious folk tend to enjoy lighting on fire as heretics. This is why I find the word "spiritual" meaningful (a little, until someone new ager starts yapping about crystals or something). It emphasizes there's an inward personal quest you must undertake to be less "materialistic" (ie, more selfless). The outer shell, religion, isn't necessary.

I think it'd help a lot, if someone wants to get notions of a "something more" across to secularists, to drop the theism words. They obfuscate, and make it seem like you're advocating religion/superstition.
 
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Lots to think about in what you write, abaddon. As usual. Thanks.

I look forward to the day when science and mysticism are understood as existing in harmony.

Words are indeed important. I'm all in favour of the disappearance of the words "religion" and "God." I have my preferred replacements, but I haven't had much success yet peddling them. What to do but keep working?
 
~R

Jews tracing back to the diaspora post fall of Israel under Rome have a rich history of philosophers. Their culture has never been a monolithic culture unchanging to today.

I read Guide For The Perplexed by 12th century Jew Maimonides. He was know for building bridges between Jews, Greek philosophy, and other religions. The book is online. You may be surprised.

The same with Christianity.
 
There are two kinds of people. Those who understand that materialism is proven, and those who are wrong.-bilby
I already said that in this very thread. Do you have something to say about it, or are you quoting it for truth, or what?

As materialists, atheists can only direct their desire toward material things: sex, money, status.
None of your three examples is a material thing.

Pretty weird for a materialist to say that sex, money and status are not material things.:unsure:
Whereas it is normal to the point of boring for a simpleton to attempt to oversimplify.
 
Spinoza was a fucking self-righteous religious asshole. Quoting him to make a point so as to make argument from such dubious authority is to stand in his shoes.
No he wasn't, he was one of the enlightenment's "founding fathers" of secularism and atheism.

Don't believe the people that come here telling you what Spinoza said. They don't know either.

Spinoza used the word "God" utterly differently from supernaturalist theists. One aspect of his project was basically to find what's good in religions (similar to Alain de Botton's (and mine) wish to "steal" the non-superstitious and actually useful bits) and jettison the rest. It got him accused of atheism and he denied that because, again, back then the words had different implications.

There's irony in someone using Spinoza to bash atheists. But there's also irony in atheists not knowing where they get half their ideas and deriding those sources.
To be fair, the only exposure I ever get to Spinoza is generally through religious folks who religiously suck his dick.

If this is the case, he used "God" inappropriately, and he did make some pretty dirty claims about atheists.

He's quite wrong about the choice to invoke the word God to describe something that is apparent even to the atheist, namely that "the universe exists, the self existing within it". It is an utter abuse of the term God, though to be fair I'm sure plenty of people would view my deconstruction on the words "God", "god" "god of this world" and "'god'" as an abuse, too?

I'm biased in a lot of ways because perhaps I'm an atheist in the same vein of thought as Spinoza, in that I recognize the universe has consistent rules and those rules create a consistent set of truths about how humans would be most adaptive in terms of accepting one another. My path to this point, however, didn't involve Spinoza; I found my own way from "cogito" and "the universe exists, I within it" to "don't be a dick", and I'm kinda proud of that.

I do get irritated any time someone is on some particular philosopher's dick or another the same way I get irritated when someone is on some religious prophet's dick: they're all wrong by degrees, and I'm not entirely or exactly right, either, and it's just cringe when someone gushes.

If you want to blame anything for such opinions on Spinoza though, blame the person in the room who has misrepresented them so heavily over the years to give me this impression.
 
If I am a dirty vile atheist who has no morals, why would I ignore anyone who slights me? That makes no sense.
 
I read Guide For The Perplexed by 12th century Jew Maimonides. He was know for building bridges between Jews, Greek philosophy, and other religions. The book is online. You may be surprised.

I certainly was surprised. Here are a couple of juicy quotations from it:

It is possible that in the Hebrew language, of which we have now but a slight knowledge, the Tetragrammaton, in the way it was pronounced, conveyed the meaning of "absolute existence."

There also exists in the Universe a certain force which controls the whole, which sets in motion the chief and principal parts, and gives them the motive power for governing the rest. Without that force, the existence of this sphere, with its principal and secondary parts, would be impossible. It is the source of the existence of the Universe in all its parts. That force is God: blessed be His name! It is on account of this force that man is called microcosm: for he likewise possesses a certain principle which governs all the forces of the body, and on account of this comparison God is called "the life of the Universe"; comp. "and he swore by the life of the Universe" (Dan. xii. 7).

Spiritual atheism if ever there was.
 
Makes my chronic point. Not all, atheists can be as squirrely, , defensive, and emotional when self image is challenged.
 
Pretty weird for a materialist to say that sex, money and status are not material things.:unsure:
Whereas it is normal to the point of boring for a simpleton to attempt to oversimplify.
Ah, the subtleties of our 21st century scholastics: how many immaterial coins can dance on the tip of a spiritual penis?
 
I'm all in favor of No Robots disappearing.
I am trying hard to see the atheist''s love and tolerance that I hear so much about.
From whom do you hear that?

Here in the Christendom I live in, one of the bigger differences between theists and non-theist is that the nons don't justify their ugly attitudes and misbehavior with explanations that start with "God says..." and then quote an ancient people's primitive writings and ethics.
Tom
 
I'm all in favor of No Robots disappearing.
I am trying hard to see the atheist''s love and tolerance that I hear so much about.
From whom do you hear that?

Here in the Christendom I live in, one of the bigger differences between theists and non-theist is that the nons don't justify their ugly attitudes and misbehavior with explanations that start with "God says..." and then quote an ancient people's primitive writings and ethics.
Tom

And they're clearly insulting atheists just to feel morally superior. Why do I have to respect that?
 
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