Columbia University is colluding with the far-right in its attack on students

[Swammerdami]

Fifty-five years ago the U.S. was involved in a major war that attracted vehement opposition on college campuses. It might be interesting to contrast U.S. reactions then with U.S. reactions to student protests today.

Unfortunately, I am not qualified to do it. 55 years ago I was an immature 19 year-old child and, although I lived in Berkeley and caught a whiff or two of tear gas, I was too preoccupied with other matters to read newspapers or form useful memories. And today I'm also preoccupied. Google presents me with headlines but I don't click unless it's about interesting science. IIDB is my major source of news!

Will someone else help contrast today's reactions to student protests with those of 55 years ago? Ignore the students' behavior: Children will be children.

...used Gazans as human shields. I call that a war crime.

If Israel has done it would you call it a war crime, too? I'm not saying you wouldn't. I am asking.

Under the same circumstances, absolutely.
Under only slightly different circumstances, maybe and maybe not.

I thought this was an admirable concession by Tom.

But with the history, I don't think it's even possible to have the same circumstances.
Tom

Here is how that comes across: when people I don't like do it, it's a war crime, but when people I like do it, well, those are different circumstances. What I expect instead: here are my a priori, objective rules for when it's a war crime and when it's not, completely independent of having looked up circumstances of when which people did what and based completely reasonably on logic.

It was the  My Lai massacre and the company officers who perpetrated it that became the "go-to" example of war crime during the Vietnam war. (But focus on the hundreds killed by Lt. Calley et al was in part to deflect attention from the hundreds of thousands killed by the malfeasance of Johnson and Kissinger et al.)

There are rumors that Israeli soldiers have committed atrocities. Any efforts by government to investigate such charges?

How about you respond to the part about war crimes perps if that’s what you really want to discuss:

I have.
Over and over.
People keep hand waving away war crimes when they are committed by Muslims.
Where is the international outrage concerning Muslim war crimes?
Tom

"Muslim ... Muslim." This seems to pit one religion against another and is NOT helpful. Is the My Lai massacre best described as committed "by Christians"? And unlike the "spin" placed on the conflict in Gaza by Netanyahu's defenders, I do NOT hear protestors blaming Israel's war crimes "on the Jews."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Thirty-five years ago, all around the world dozens of countries changed their systems from (relatively benign) totalitarianism to democracy. It was a breath-taking change in world politics and some proclaimed "the End of History"! A few years later came the Arab Spring and optimism increased further. But . . .

. . . now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

Prattle about "the End of History" is just a sad memory now. Countries around the world are turning to fascism. Democracy is dying.

Even now, Benjamin Netanyahu faces several criminal charges and is probably grateful for the distraction of a war. This sort of personal connection is one of the hallmarks of Fascism.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's not the problem. Loads of newly liberated countries that have free and fair elections rapidly go to shit.

I know one such country which starts with Ukr and ends with ane

Yeah. Well. If only we can somehow stop Russia for trying to control Ukraine, then they will at least have a chance to be free.

If only we can somehow stop US from trying to control EU.....
Why, why do you have to do that? what's your business there?

False equivalent

 

[barbos]

That's not the problem. Loads of newly liberated countries that have free and fair elections rapidly go to shit.

I know one such country which starts with Ukr and ends with ane

Yeah. Well. If only we can somehow stop Russia for trying to control Ukraine, then they will at least have a chance to be free.

If only we can somehow stop US from trying to control EU.....
Why, why do you have to do that? what's your business there?

False equivalent

Riiiight.

 

[Elixir]

Right indeed.
Russia invades Ukraine, and babs claims the US similarly invaded Europe. He can probably come up with phony body counts and photos of the devastated cities left behind by the US invasion. Not to mention torture victims to offset the documented atrocities of the red army.

What a stupid fucking joke these Pootey shills are. It’s hard to imagine how they can look themselves in a mirror.

 

[Derec]

Derec, were you ever young? Did you ever go to University?

Yes on both counts. However, I went to university to learn, and not to occupy various administration buildings.

My alma mater was, when I was there, quite peaceful. A few years ago, long after I graduated, there was a riot over an Antifa named Scott/Scout Schultz who committed suicide by cop. But again, that was long after my time, and I would not have supported the riots had I still been a student.
Why do you ask?

I did, and during the Vietnam protests of the late 1960's.

I didn't realize you were that old. I wasn't even born in the late 60s. As a baby Xer/Xennial I am baffled by the urge to break shit when they are upset that Boomers and younger Millennials/Zoomers have.

Free speech (along with stupidity and ignorance) was rampant. They say the brain hasn't even matured at University age.

That's why administration should not let inmates run the asylum. Several universities, such as Rutgers and Brown(shirt) University have already caved to some of the demands by the radicals occupying the grounds. Same as it was in the 1960s, the administrators are not showing fortitude to resist the loud minority of students and outside agitators. Btw, NYPD found that half of those arrested at Columbia were not students.
NYC says half of those arrested at 2 pro-Palestinian campus protests were not students

Did you go to third grade? "Guns and stones may break my bones, but free speech doesn't hurt me."

Trespassing is not free speech. Restricting freedom of movement of others is not free speech. Breaking and entering, property damage and occupying a building are not free speech.

Or do you want to send the cowardly and immature Kyle Rittenhouse with his gun out to defend Israel from student protesters?

I do not get the hate boner your Ilk has for Ritt. He was foolish to go there, sure. But he was attacked, and he defended himself. Period. And no, what Kenosha rioters were doing was not free speech either!

In fact, we know you are delighted with anti-Zionist stupidity. In your tiny mind every utterance by a protesting crackpot impugns Sargeant Bartender and all the other fine people you despise.

Stupid is as stupid does.
And let the record reflect that it is again you who is bringing up Sandy's former profession ...

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Mississippi

This happened this past Thursday:

‘It wasn’t equal:’ Counter-protesters overwhelm pro-Palestinian students at the University of Mississippi

Counter-protestors vastly outnumbered the Free Palestine demonstrators at Ole Miss in first such campus protest in Mississippi.

mississippitoday.org

A minor assault, minor assaults (plural including throwing things) at the protestors. Using language such as references to huge noses and that they smell, possibly at Palestinian Americans but we don't know the targets for sure who the specific targets were.

The offenses by the counter-protestors led to police cordoning off the protestors with barricades.

Then, this video came out:

Fraternity Boots Bro Who Made Monkey Noises at Black Ole Miss Protester

Video of white students jeering at a single Black protester sparked outrage from the left and admiration from the right.

www.thedailybeast.com

(click it to see it)

There are many hecklers. Among them are very, very predominately white students and one of them is making monkey noises at an overweight female Black protestor. Others within the counter-protestors are laughing, some at the guy making monkey noises. That's only a slice of the heckling. It is not all racist.

Since then, his fraternity has given him the boot.

In the meantime, congressman Mike Collins reposts the video, endorsing it in a tweet:

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://www.axios.com/local/san-diego/2024/05/06/ucsd-police-arrest-gaza-solidarity-encampment-protesters

Police arrest protesters at UC San Diego's Gaza Solidarity encampment​

Police raided the "Gaza Solidarity" encampment at UC San Diego early Monday morning, arresting dozens of Pro-Palestinian protesters and clearing out the area.
Why it matters: The clash between police and campus protesters near Geisel Library marked a clear shift in the nature of local demonstrations, which had remained peaceful at UCSD and other campuses.

The latest: UC San Diego Police reported 64 arrests, 40 were students and 24 were unaffiliated or their status with the university was unknown. The students who were arrested have been or will be placed under immediate interim suspension, university officials said.

State of play: University officials said students were given about 10 minutes to disperse around 6am Monday before arrests and tent dismantling began, police, the Union-Tribune reported.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Article with video

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. —
A group of protesters knocked down barriers surrounding a pro-Palestinian encampment on the Massachusetts Institute of Technology campus Monday evening, just hours after the school ordered students to clear the encampment that had been set up on the Cambridge campus.

MIT said it directed students to leave the encampment by 2:30 p.m. Monday.

Students who participated in the protest were ordered to swipe their identification ...

Hmmm...

...as they leave the encampment and will receive a written warning, Chancellor Melissa Nobles told students in a letter. Those who led the protest or who have pending cases on related issues will be referred to MIT's Committee on Discipline.

Nobles' letter said those who do not leave voluntarily before the deadline will face immediate interim academic suspension and referral to MIT's Committee on Discipline, among other penalties. Those who have another related case will also not be allowed to reside on campus or eat in MIT dining halls.

I saw photos of the encampment earlier today. It was very weird because it was surrounded by barricades and counter-protestors must have also plastered Israeli flags all over the place on top of the barriers. I am using the word "weird" here because the claim by counter-protestors was that it made those counter-protestors feel unsafe but they seem to have plastered flags there.

A large group of pro-Palestine protesters were still gathered around the Kresge Oval after they were ordered to clear the encampment. Those protesters were met by a group of counterprotesters holding Israeli and American flags. Those two groups of protesters were kept separate by law enforcement officers.

Shortly after 5:35 p.m., a number of protesters pushed over the barricades surrounding the encampment and locked arms around the emptied tents.

The protests around the encampment area have been largely peaceful. There are police officers in the area of the Kresge Oval, but they have been keeping their distance from the protesters.

MIT said no had been arrested in connection with the incidents on campus as of Monday night.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Netherlands

Police Break Up Pro-Palestinian Camp at Amsterdam University

Dutch police arrested about 125 activists as protests that roiled U.S. campuses spread into Europe.

time.com

Belgium

Ghent students occupy university building in climate and Gaza protest

More than 200 expected to join protest calling for climate action and to cut ties with Israeli institutions

www.theguardian.com

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/univers...tinian-protest-encampment-on-campus/14777881/

CHICAGO (WLS) -- Police cleared a pro-Palestinian encampment at the University of Chicago in Hyde Park Tuesday morning.

 

[ZiprHead]

I wonder if those idiotic Hamas supporters have seen the videos of the 10/7 assault. I've not seen them but I understand they are quite horrifying.