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The Planned Parenthood Videos Seem to be Getting a Fair Amount of Traction

 
 
 
NobleSavage

NobleSavage

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I'm keep hearing more about these videos. I'm 100% pro-choice. I know that Planned Parenthood's activities involve 97% non abortion services. I know they are legally allowed to get get money for expenses (a lot better than throwing fetal tissue in the trash).

I'm listening to On Point now, which is usually a little left of center and some woman is saying, "OMG They are making a profit off BABY parts."
 
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Wasn't it a heavily-edited smear video that caused the downfall of ACORN?
 
James Brown said:
Wasn't it a heavily-edited smear video that caused the downfall of ACORN?
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Yes.

The Senate took a vote on Planned Parenthood funding: The vote was 53-46, meaning the measure failed the get the 60 votes needed to overcome a Democratic filibuster on bringing the bill up for debate.
 
Would it be a bad idea for PP to form a new group that does only abortion services and use private funds (only 1/3 of their funding is Federal)? That would make it a lot harder to defund and it would highlight the fact that pro-life people are really against birth control and breast cancer screenings.
 
NobleSavage said:
Would it be a bad idea for PP to form a new group that does only abortion services and use private funds (only 1/3 of their funding is Federal)? That would make it a lot harder to defund and it would highlight the fact that pro-life people are really against birth control and breast cancer screenings.
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My understanding is that the Congress has had three or four commissions to study the issue of fetal tissue research. And each time, it has determined it is necessary. This issue has been resolved for a long time.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
NobleSavage said:
Would it be a bad idea for PP to form a new group that does only abortion services and use private funds (only 1/3 of their funding is Federal)? That would make it a lot harder to defund and it would highlight the fact that pro-life people are really against birth control and breast cancer screenings.
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My understanding is that the Congress has had three or four commissions to study the issue of fetal tissue research. And each time, it has determined it is necessary. This issue has been resolved for a long time.
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Congress doesn't resolve anything. With seven more pro-life Senators it will become quickly unresolved.
 
NobleSavage said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
My understanding is that the Congress has had three or four commissions to study the issue of fetal tissue research. And each time, it has determined it is necessary. This issue has been resolved for a long time.
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Congress doesn't resolve anything. With seven more pro-life Senators it will become quickly unresolved.
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I'm saying that this has been addressed multiple times, by Congress itself. Some people seem to think this is a new issue. The only thing new are these doctored videos trying paint the situation in a much different light, in an attempt to ACORN PP.

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NobleSavage said:
It could happen:

View attachment 3681

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170249/split-abortion-pro-choice-pro-life.aspx
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Oddly enough, those who are pro-choice jump to 80% is asked if their 17 year old daughter gets pregnant.
 
NobleSavage said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Oddly enough, those who are pro-choice jump to 80% is asked if their 17 year old daughter gets pregnant.
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Do you have a cite for that? Not saying you are wrong. I'd like to see it.
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It is a fictional, but likely to be a reasonable approximation. Much like how people tended to be more for gay marriage if they actually had a gay member of the family.
 
What's at issue is not the legality of selling the parts, although that is how it is framed. Anti-abortion advocates have long recognized that the practice of using fetal tissue for research is unpopular. The issue is that this is a wide practice which most people were blissfully unaware of, and these advocates are making it known. Legality is just a guise. A couple of points to consider:

1) Many people, myself included, identify as politically pro-choice but personally pro-life. I.e. we are the people who wouldn't procure abortions (except in extreme cases) but we support a woman's right to do so. Since we are uncomfortable with abortion in general, we are the most effected by the videos. (Doesn't change my stance on the issue since I've know this was going on for a long time.)

2) The issue is specifically about body parts, which implies a more advanced pregnancy. Though, of course, the individual parts are in place before the second trimester, I have no idea, nor do I think most people have any idea, at what point these parts can be separated and used in medical research. Support of abortion declines with the advancement of the pregnancy in question. The implication that these parts are from more developed pregnancies is a factor against the practice. (On that note, does anyone know exactly how far developed they would need to be?)

3) There is, so to speak, a Soyent Green reflex most people have to the uses that aborted tissue goes to. Although some companies use aborted fetal tissue to develop cosmetic ingredients, for instance, nobody wants to be that person who applies a liberal application of fetal tissue to their face to reduce their age by ten years. "Yes," you say, "But it's only derived from fetal tissue. It isn't actually fetal tissue." That makes no difference. Gut reactions are gut reactions. Might as well tell a PETA activist that your fur coat is only derived from an animal.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
NobleSavage said:
Do you have a cite for that? Not saying you are wrong. I'd like to see it.
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It is a fictional, but likely to be a reasonable approximation. Much like how people tended to be more for gay marriage if they actually had a gay member of the family.
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But not everyone's 17 year old daughter gets pregnant right around election time.
 
I should have said a bit more about the legality issue. Anti-abortion advocates have set up the debate as a legal issue. and Planned Parenthood took the bait. They defended themselves by pointing out that what they are doing is legal. But that is what the anti-abortion crowd wanted. They want PP to disclose their practices because they know that popular opinion is against fetal tissue research in general. By drawing PP into a legal argument, they have exposed the practice to the greater public. At the same time, as PP defends its practice as legal, they have not devoted as much effort to defending their practice as moral. As a result, anti-abortion advocates have exposed the practice and taken the moral high ground. That's what they wanted.

Legality is just a ruse.
 
NobleSavage said:
It could happen:

View attachment 3681

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170249/split-abortion-pro-choice-pro-life.aspx
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Most amazing behind that stat is that 41% of women are "pro-life".

Other stats that make those numbers more worrisome is that the pro-lifers are more likely to vote based on their stance on this issue.
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OTOH, part of the shift toward pro-life is due to the increase in Hispanics, both due to immigration and greater birth rates. They are still mostly voting Dem. Given the high % of hard core pro-life candidates that are also blatantly racist, this won't likely change soon.
 
NobleSavage said:
I'm keep hearing more about these videos. I'm 100% pro-choice. I know that Planned Parenthood's activities involve 97% non abortion services. I know they are legally allowed to get get money for expenses (a lot better than throwing fetal tissue in the trash).

I'm listening to On Point now, which is usually a little left of center and some woman is saying, "OMG They are making a profit off BABY parts."
Click to expand...

The videos are pretty disgusting. They show doctors arguing over the best way to abort a fetus to preserve the most valuable organs. Even considering the low integrity of the hit squad that made them I don't see Planned Parenthood surviving.

Abortion, no matter how you dance around it is ending a human life. It was made legal as a concern for human health. To prevent the deaths and damage that occurred from desperate women using questionable trying to control their families. It got out of hand when women used legal abortion as an alternative to long term birth control and as an absolute right that they had to decide the fate of the child. They played into the hands of the abortion opponents.

If it had been kept in the court of the abortion opponents, if they had to answer how the toll of illegal abortions was to be reduced by simply making abortion illegal again, which hadn't ever happened, if legalized abortion had reduced the number of abortions, if more people would have used available birth control instead of fewer, the situation for continued legalized abortion wouldn't be so bleak now. This selling of baby parts maybe the final straw.

I should have pointed out that the only positive way that anyone has seen for a cure for my disease, ALS, is by using fetal stem cells. You are free to use this fact in evaluating my statements above. I certainly have a interest in the sales of baby parts.
 
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NobleSavage said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
It is a fictional, but likely to be a reasonable approximation. Much like how people tended to be more for gay marriage if they actually had a gay member of the family.
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But not everyone's 17 year old daughter gets pregnant right around election time.
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Sounds like some activism is necessary to remedy that!
 
SimpleDon said:
The videos are pretty disgusting. They show doctors arguing over the best way to abort a fetus to preserve the most valuable organs. Even considering the low integrity of the hit squad that made them I don't see Planned Parenthood surviving.

Abortion, no matter how you dance around it is ending a human life. It was made legal as a concern for human health. To prevent the deaths and damage that occurred from desperate women using questionable trying to control their families. It got out of hand when women used legal abortion as an alternative to long term birth control and as an absolute right that they had to decide the fate of the child. They played into the hands of the abortion opponents.

If it had been kept in the court of the abortion opponents, if they had to answer how the toll of illegal abortions was to be reduced by simply making abortion illegal again, which hadn't ever happened, if legalized abortion had reduced the number of abortions, if more people would have used available birth control instead of fewer, the situation for continued legalized abortion wouldn't be so bleak now. This selling of baby parts maybe the final straw.

I should have pointed out that the only positive way that anyone has seen for a cure for my disease, ALS, is by using fetal stem cells. You are free to use this fact in evaluating my statements above. I certainly have a interest in the sales of baby parts.
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It is far too premature to sound the death toll for Planned Parenthood, however I think you are on to something. This is all part of a two pronged anti-abortion strategy. The first prong is to maintain a moral superiority on the national level, which is what these videos attempt to do. The second prong is to whittle away at abortion rights and access at the state level. This is the strategy that has worked to close 75% of abortion clinics in the U.S. since 1991.

I'm sure many abortion opponents would be happy if this were the final straw to break PP's back, but that's not what they're after. They have been successfully winning with the slow and steady approach, and they'll be happy to continue on that path.
 
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