Another college is repeating the male-is-guilty garbage

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7155

After completing the questionnaire, students were then walked through a two-hour interactive lesson on sexual assault, consent, and substance abuse. In one case, students were told that a sexual partner who has had too much to drink cannot give consent. However, in a different scenario, the course shows a video of a man and a woman who are both drunk and engaging in sexual activity. The video, according to Ellenhorn, blames the man for sexually assaulting the woman.

(Note that the main part of the article is about a far-too-intrusive mandatory questionnaire about sexual behavior.)

 

[laughing dog]

The OP uses unsubstantiated opinion from a biased website as a claim of fact. Sort of ironic if you think about it.

Perhaps the video clearly does blame men. Then again, perhaps it does not clearly blame men. Perhaps it clearly does not blame men. Without access to the video, it is hard to tell.

 

[Jayjay]

Even if it does clearly blame men, as a man, that's fine with me. Men commit disproportionately more sexual assaults than women, so despite whiners it's only pragmatic to focus on men when it comes to sensitivity training.

 

[ronburgundy]

Even if it does clearly blame men, as a man, that's fine with me. Men commit disproportionately more sexual assaults than women, so despite whiners it's only pragmatic to focus on men when it comes to sensitivity training.

The fact that men commit most sexual assaults is not a great rationalization for an "educational" video to lie to young adults about the law and claim that only men are accountable for co-intoxicated intercourse.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Even if it does clearly blame men, as a man, that's fine with me. Men commit disproportionately more sexual assaults than women, so despite whiners it's only pragmatic to focus on men when it comes to sensitivity training.

Ya, sort of like it's only pragmatic to have anti-theft training focus on keeping an eye on the black guys.

 

[Derec]

Even if it does clearly blame men, as a man, that's fine with me. Men commit disproportionately more sexual assaults than women, so despite whiners it's only pragmatic to focus on men when it comes to sensitivity training.

Here we clearly see the sexism that is socially acceptable in our society.

Again, this is the case where the man and woman do exactly the same thing - have consensual sex with somebody intoxicated. Yet the male is the one getting blamed, not because he behaved any differently, but because of his genitals.

 

[Jayjay]

Even if it does clearly blame men, as a man, that's fine with me. Men commit disproportionately more sexual assaults than women, so despite whiners it's only pragmatic to focus on men when it comes to sensitivity training.

Ya, sort of like it's only pragmatic to have anti-theft training focus on keeping an eye on the black guys.

If black men do indeed commit proportionately more thefts in some area than whites, then that is perfectly pragmatic. The only difference is that the theft analogy varies a lot by local demographics and socioeconomic factors, whereas men and women are roughly 50/50 everywhere, and while sexual assaults and harrassment are more commonplace in some places than others, men are both biologically and culturally predisposed to committing more of them than women.

 

[Jayjay]

Even if it does clearly blame men, as a man, that's fine with me. Men commit disproportionately more sexual assaults than women, so despite whiners it's only pragmatic to focus on men when it comes to sensitivity training.

Here we clearly see the sexism that is socially acceptable in our society.

Again, this is the case where the man and woman do exactly the same thing - have consensual sex with somebody intoxicated. Yet the male is the one getting blamed, not because he behaved any differently, but because of his genitals.

If it's consensual, then nobody will get blamed. Besides the point of this type of education is to increase awareness to avoid such incidents from happening at all.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The OP uses unsubstantiated opinion from a biased website as a claim of fact. Sort of ironic if you think about it.

Perhaps the video clearly does blame men. Then again, perhaps it does not clearly blame men. Perhaps it clearly does not blame men. Without access to the video, it is hard to tell.

The site is a shill for the Leadership Institute.

MISSION
Campus Reform, a project of the Leadership Institute, is America's leading site for college news.

As a watchdog to the nation's higher education system, Campus Reform exposes bias and abuse on the nation's college campuses.

Our team of professional journalists works alongside student activists and student journalists to report on the conduct and misconduct of university administrators, faculty, and students.

Let's look at some of these headlines:
How the diversity Grinch stole campus Christmas
OPINION: The politicization of sexual assault
Conservatives are shut out on college campuses
The five strategies the left uses to silence conservative women on campus

Not really a reliable source, but going to have to go with Laughing Dog on this one. Unless the video is seen we don't really know what it is saying/trying to say. It could just be hearsay, as a lot of content on that page seems to be.

 

[Derec]

If it's consensual, then nobody will get blamed.

Except that men, and only men, still do. Drunk college guy, drunk college girl have consensual sex and the guy gets expelled. See Occidental College false rape case. Or Amherst college, where the guy got expelled even though he was the drunker of the two. There is a huge double standard here and prejudices against men like you are exhibiting here are not going to help matters. In fact, it is attitudes like yours (always blaming men, no matter the facts) that caused the problem to begin with.

 

[Jayjay]

If it's consensual, then nobody will get blamed.

Except that men, and only men, still do. Drunk college guy, drunk college girl have consensual sex and the guy gets expelled. See Occidental College false rape case. Or Amherst college, where the guy got expelled even though he was the drunker of the two. There is a huge double standard here and prejudices against men like you are exhibiting here are not going to help matters. In fact, it is attitudes like yours (always blaming men, no matter the facts) that caused the problem to begin with.

Both cases would have been easily avoidable, by not getting themselves intoxicated or have sex with intoxicated females. And they might win their lawsuits and get the last laugh in the end anyway. Meanwhile, while these two kids were expelled due to their own immature behaviour, how many real college rapes are there where the culprits are never caught or face no punitive measures whatsoever?

 

[Random Person]

I think it teaches that females aren't accountable for their behavior and that males are always going to default to making errors in judgement if it will get them laid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The OP uses unsubstantiated opinion from a biased website as a claim of fact. Sort of ironic if you think about it.

Perhaps the video clearly does blame men. Then again, perhaps it does not clearly blame men. Perhaps it clearly does not blame men. Without access to the video, it is hard to tell.

It doesn't overtly blame men--the issue is treating the man as guilty in case of a mutually-drunk hookup.

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Even if it does clearly blame men, as a man, that's fine with me. Men commit disproportionately more sexual assaults than women, so despite whiners it's only pragmatic to focus on men when it comes to sensitivity training.

This isn't a matter of sensitivity training, but of treating the man as guilty and the woman innocent when they commit exactly the same act.

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The site is a shill for the Leadership Institute.

MISSION
Campus Reform, a project of the Leadership Institute, is America's leading site for college news.

As a watchdog to the nation's higher education system, Campus Reform exposes bias and abuse on the nation's college campuses.

Our team of professional journalists works alongside student activists and student journalists to report on the conduct and misconduct of university administrators, faculty, and students.

Let's look at some of these headlines:
How the diversity Grinch stole campus Christmas
OPINION: The politicization of sexual assault
Conservatives are shut out on college campuses
The five strategies the left uses to silence conservative women on campus

Not really a reliable source, but going to have to go with Laughing Dog on this one. Unless the video is seen we don't really know what it is saying/trying to say. It could just be hearsay, as a lot of content on that page seems to be.

Exposing the wrongs of one side doesn't make a bad source.

I found the link in the comp.risks newsletter, garbage doesn't normally make it there.

 

[laughing dog]

It doesn't overtly blame men--the issue is treating the man as guilty in case of a mutually-drunk hookup.

We don't know how that video treats anyone. All we have is someone's viewpoint that is reported by a biased website.

 

[Malintent]

I think it teaches that females aren't accountable for their behavior and that males are always going to default to making errors in judgement if it will get them laid.

agreed.. we need to take the right to vote away for those stupid chicks.. after all, they appear to be self-identifying as incapable of making good decisions. What they really need is a good protector of their bodies... like a trophy locked in a display case.. or some other piece of property that can only be bartered between accountable men.

.. cause' that's how it has always been for millennia's past.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I realize that this is Derec's hobby horse and he rides it to death, but he does have a point that really does need to be made to society at large. Men are not by default the aggressor and women are not by default the victim, simply due to their genitals, but our society too often treats them that way. This paternalism should be as insulting to women as it is to men. This paternalism can and should be avoided when addressing, shaming, and attacking attitudes about rape.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, sort of like it's only pragmatic to have anti-theft training focus on keeping an eye on the black guys.

If black men do indeed commit proportionately more thefts in some area than whites, then that is perfectly pragmatic. The only difference is that the theft analogy varies a lot by local demographics and socioeconomic factors, whereas men and women are roughly 50/50 everywhere, and while sexual assaults and harrassment are more commonplace in some places than others, men are both biologically and culturally predisposed to committing more of them than women.

It's still placing the blame on somebody based on their membership in a group as opposed to their actions as an individual. That's the definition of bigotry.

If a store has a policy of having a security guard follow black males around whenever they're in the store and when they complain about that they are told "Sorry sir, it's a store policy because black males commit the most thefts in this neighbourhood", that store is in the wrong no matter how "pragmatic" they may be by doing it. They are telling every black male who comes in there that they are being considered potential criminals simply because of the fact that they are black males.

It's the same with blaming men for sexual assault. Blame for sexual assault should be placed on the individuals who commit sexual assault, not on non-rapists who happen to be in that group. The fact that some may find it "pragmatic" to blame the innocent doesn't mean that they're being less bigotted when they do so.

 

[Toni]

I realize that this is Derec's hobby horse and he rides it to death, but he does have a point that really does need to be made to society at large. Men are not by default the aggressor and women are not by default the victim, simply due to their genitals, but our society too often treats them that way. This paternalism should be as insulting to women as it is to men. This paternalism can and should be avoided when addressing, shaming, and attacking attitudes about rape.

Actually what is insulting is blaming women for being raped and casting all rape accusations (except those committed by scary black men abducting nubile blonde virgins who are strangers to them) as morning after regrets by drunken sluts who really wanted it and are only upset if he doesn't call back the next day.

Sadly for Derec and his ilk, statistics do not bear out this warped and misogynistic world view.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When people are drunk, consent becomes terribly muddled. Also, the sex probably isn't as good.

Better plan, have sex then get drunk.

 

[Derec]

Sadly for Derec and his ilk, statistics do not bear out this warped and misogynistic world view.

What is warped and misandrist is to say that if two drunk people have sex the male is the "rapist" and the female is the "victim" no matter what.

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I realize that this is Derec's hobby horse and he rides it to death

I did not start this thread.