• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Hang Ayaz Nizami

Trausti

Deleted
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
9,784
Fellow atheists have wrongly offended the Religion of Peace™ and may die for their inexcusable Islamophobia.

According to FIA sources the arrested, Ayaz Nizami alias Abdul Waheed and Rana Nauman, have admitted to having contacts in Holland, USA, UK and Canada from where they got financial and technical assistance.

The suspects were using a Dutch SIM for uploading blasphemous content on WhatsApp. Cyber Crime Circle Islamabad has registered an FIR under section 7/17.

Both the suspects used to upload blasphemous content on various, reports claim.

Blasphemy crackdown: FIA arrests 2 suspects from Karachi

The reaction from "moderate" Muslims (not those ISIS folks who don't understand their religion as well as Western liberals) is reasoned and just:

ObefvWnZq.jpg
Obhl4dgLu.jpg

ObmGViMcW.jpg
ObnhkMbhu.jpg


It should be remembered that the West also used to have blasphemy laws, so anyone concerned about this is a %$#@!^&*ist. There should be no worry at all that this mindset is being imported into Western countries. Don't forget that the members of Monty Python were brought up on blasphemy charges for Life of Brian. It's so shameful that those bastards weren't hanged, too.

C72Uk5YXwAEHCon.jpg
 
Last edited:
I don't understand your point.

The news story says that two individuals under aliases uploaded blasphemous content in Pakistan, but the author never reports in the news story what the blasphemous content was - so, the readers are left to draw our own conclusions - and so the audience can only speculate that the content was somehow either offensive to nationalistic or tribal or sectarian or religious or ethnic sensibilities of specific communities or the general countrymen in Pakistan? And reporting specific tweets of Pakistani individuals I'm not sure makes whatever wider point you're trying to make either. For example, Madonna openly said in the Women's March that she has thoughts about bombing the White House, but no one took her literally. And Robert Di Nero said that he has wanted to punch President Trump but no one took that literally either. So, I'm not sure why we should take their words literally - all we can understand from their tweets is that they're outraged by whatever the content that was uploaded on WhatsApp (which they might or might not be aware of generally and are just reacting to rumors or news) - and they're typing of the worst possible scenario that can conceive of happening to the alleged offenders.

By the way, as to your last line, importation of mentalities is a two-way street - if the Eastern mindset is being imported in the West, the Western mindset is also being imported in the East - so, there's no way to escape the reality of globalism on matter the village or street or country that is a person's place of current residence. Despite what foolish people might think, electing Trump or voting in a Brexit like an "emergency button" on globalism will not halt globalism - just make it likely that those who're unable to cope with globalism at its own pace - will be left behind - while the world carries on business as usual and countries like Russia and China keep rising in power.

And also, as an American, while I do care about the welfare of other countries generally and their people, I am more concerned about the injustices that happen in the U.S. than I am in other parts of the world because I'd like to contribute my energies and resources to making immediately a difference here. Isn't there even a saying that "charity begins at home"? So, for example, while I do not especially espouse the isolationist sentiments that President Trump led people falsely believe he held dear during his campaign trails, I have and still do agree with the sentiments of concentrating our energies on making it better for people in America overall. So, for example, I am concerned about the growing divide in America that led today for Yahoo! to publish a news story in which pro-Trump and anti-Trump protesters clashed and some were arrested because I'm not liking the direction in which our country is headed; we used to as a nation be able to still respect each other despite the differences in our political stances, but it seems that now there is no more tolerance left on either side for people differing from one another on the political spectrum.

Also, in another news story I read specific to this thread topic, it said that these specific individuals who have been charged were being kept in an anti-terrorism cell? So, what does that mean? Additionally, it says previously five bloggers had been charged under the same law, and those bloggers, when they were subsequently returned to home unhurt, said that they were charged under the color of the law because they had criticized military and intelligence services of Pakistan. So, people are charged under blasphemy laws when they criticize the government?

Peace.
 
I don't understand your point.

The news story says that two individuals under aliases uploaded blasphemous content in Pakistan, but the author never reports in the news story what the blasphemous content was - so, the readers are left to draw our own conclusions - and so the audience can only speculate that the content was somehow either offensive to nationalistic or tribal or sectarian or religious or ethnic sensibilities of specific communities or the general countrymen in Pakistan? And reporting specific tweets of Pakistani individuals I'm not sure makes whatever wider point you're trying to make either. For example, Madonna openly said in the Women's March that she has thoughts about bombing the White House, but no one took her literally. And Robert Di Nero said that he has wanted to punch President Trump but no one took that literally either. So, I'm not sure why we should take their words literally - all we can understand from their tweets is that they're outraged by whatever the content that was uploaded on WhatsApp (which they might or might not be aware of generally and are just reacting to rumors or news) - and they're typing of the worst possible scenario that can conceive of happening to the alleged offenders.

By the way, as to your last line, importation of mentalities is a two-way street - if the Eastern mindset is being imported in the West, the Western mindset is also being imported in the East - so, there's no way to escape the reality of globalism on matter the village or street or country that is a person's place of current residence. Despite what foolish people might think, electing Trump or voting in a Brexit like an "emergency button" on globalism will not halt globalism - just make it likely that those who're unable to cope with globalism at its own pace - will be left behind - while the world carries on business as usual and countries like Russia and China keep rising in power.

And also, as an American, while I do care about the welfare of other countries generally and their people, I am more concerned about the injustices that happen in the U.S. than I am in other parts of the world because I'd like to contribute my energies and resources to making immediately a difference here. Isn't there even a saying that "charity begins at home"? So, for example, while I do not especially espouse the isolationist sentiments that President Trump led people falsely believe he held dear during his campaign trails, I have and still do agree with the sentiments of concentrating our energies on making it better for people in America overall. So, for example, I am concerned about the growing divide in America that led today for Yahoo! to publish a news story in which pro-Trump and anti-Trump protesters clashed and some were arrested because I'm not liking the direction in which our country is headed; we used to as a nation be able to still respect each other despite the differences in our political stances, but it seems that now there is no more tolerance left on either side for people differing from one another on the political spectrum.

Also, in another news story I read specific to the thread topic, it said that these specific individuals who have been charged were being kept in an anti-terrorism cell? So, what does that mean? Additionally, it says previously five bloggers had been charged under the same law, and those bloggers, when they were subsequently returned to home unhurt, said that they were charged under the color of the law because they had criticized military and intelligence services of Pakistan. So, people are charged under blasphemy laws when they criticize the government?

Peace.

WTF does it matter how the content was blasphemous? I posted this because, as an atheist, it matters to me that someone can be jailed for "terrorism" for the "crime" of blasphemy. On top of that, the supposed "moderate" Muslims are apparently okay with killing them for it.

And what does this have to do with Trump? Good grief.

C4uUqfeVUAA0FJY.jpg
 
WTF does it matter how the content was blasphemous?
A lot, actually. You're assuming the arrest took place because the blasphemous content had to do with religion, but the blasphemous content could actually have comprised of offending the Pakistani government. If that's the case, the issue is superficially and only tangentially related to religion and actually concerned with the heavy-handedness of the country's government.

I posted this because, as an atheist, it matters to me that someone can be jailed for "terrorism" for the "crime" of blasphemy.
Free speech issues are important, and I'm not trying to detract from that point. However, I think the fact that these individuals were put in an anti-terrorism cell could mean that the picture might be more complicated because it might be that they were jailed for criticizing the government in which case Russia and China are no better than Pakistan because we know that Putin in the past has had his critics and opponents killed and China and South Korea are the bastion of censorship. So, I'm not sure why we should concentrate our energies on Pakistan specifically. Is a country better because they do not have blasphemy laws like Pakistan does on the books literally but in practical application do have a government-led understanding of what constitutes blasphemy ideologically (i.e. China and South Korea) and therefore restrict freedom of speech?

On top of that, the supposed "moderate" Muslims are apparently okay with killing them for it.
So, the reason I quoted you the story of Robert De Niro and Madonna is to literally give you examples of people who wanted to punch President Trump or bomb the White House, all crimes, one being descriptively a battery and the other descriptively terrorism. However, we didn't take their words literally, did we? We thought these people were just expressing their outrage. Why should we then take words of these individuals whom you've quoted from Twitter literally just and only because they happen to be Muslim?

And what does this have to do with Trump? Good grief.
My wider point was that I care more about issues generally that we're dealing with at home here in the U.S. than abroad in other countries. Priorities and all that.

Peace.
 
Yeah yeah yeah.

The US has it's invasions based on total lies.

Some individuals have crazy dangerous ideas based on total lies.
 
And I am being accused to "hobby horsing" ...
The posting behavior of poster X has absolutely no bearing on whether some other poster is hobby horsing.

And some people on here think we should bring such individuals into Europe and US en masse.
Unsurprisingly, you let no opportunity to inject one of your boring and bigoted hobby horses into the discussion.
 
And I am being accused to "hobby horsing" ...

Some individuals have crazy dangerous ideas based on total lies.
And some people on here think we should bring such individuals into Europe and US en masse.

If you think you have a civilization you are not afraid of any individuals.

If you have a civilization no matter where they start they will be civilized.

If you do not have a civilization but a redneck ignorant xenophobic clusterfuck then anybody who comes in should be careful if they look a little too different.
 
Well, from the sample size you've presented we have upwards of 43 people who express the opinion on Twitter that Ayaz Nizami should be hanged.

On the other hand, there are about two billion Muslims on the planet right now whose opinions, I think, are not represented by three posts and 43 likes/shares on Twitter. So I'll reserve judgement until and unless this becomes a widespread thing and not just another mean-spirited meme on twitter.
 
i think he should be admit to psychiatric hospital do not kill
 
For what? What do you think will happen when they get deprived of their freedom and drugged?

nobody have right to insult other people religion, if you dont like religion you can shut up
First, it's not clear whether it was an insult, or they argue it was false.
Second, of course people have the right to insult the religion of other people. I do have that right, though I prefer not to insult. But then again, many of the things I say would be classified as an insult by millions of religious people. How about the following statements?

1. The biblical character Moses was a moral monster, going by the description of his actions in the Bible, and regardless of whether he was real or not.
2. The biblical character Yahweh is a worse moral monster, albeit an imaginary one - like Darth Vader, but more dangerous.
3. Muhammad was a moral monster too. He attacked villages, murdered men (even non-combatants), raped women, sold women into slavery, of course stole things, and on top of that, became powerful by promoting a false religion that is still doing serious damage today.

Do they get me into a psychiatric hospital?

Third, if you believe that people do not have the right to insult the religion of others, why would you send them to a psychiatric hospital, rather than prison?
I mean, you don't want to send rapists and bank robbers to a psychiatric hospital, do you? So, why a psychiatric hospital, rather than a prison cell?
 
NightSky said:
And reporting specific tweets of Pakistani individuals I'm not sure makes whatever wider point you're trying to make either. For example, Madonna openly said in the Women's March that she has thoughts about bombing the White House, but no one took her literally.
NightSky said:
So, the reason I quoted you the story of Robert De Niro and Madonna is to literally give you examples of people who wanted to punch President Trump or bomb the White House, all crimes, one being descriptively a battery and the other descriptively terrorism. However, we didn't take their words literally, did we? We thought these people were just expressing their outrage. Why should we then take words of these individuals whom you've quoted from Twitter literally just and only because they happen to be Muslim?
Fair points, however:

1. A large majority of Pakistanis are committed to a religion that imposes severe punishments for blasphemy and/or apostasy.
2. Opinion polls show that there is indeed wide support for blasphemy laws in Pakistan. For example, http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf reports 75% considers that "Blasphemy laws are necessary to protect Islam in our country" comes closer to their view than the alternative statement (which says they unfairly target minority communities).
Those are responses to a poll, not reactions in the heat of the moment against someone who said something against Islam, like the Tweets - not that those are acceptable, either. Neither were Madonna's words, if they were as you describe them, acceptable. But Hang Ayaz Nizami is on the other hand at a serious risk of being severely punished. Trump seems pretty safe. And Madonna doesn't actually support bombing the White House, whereas a large majority of Pakistanis do support blasphemy laws (even if not all of the ones who Tweeted do, which seems improbable given their words, their religion, and the vast support for such laws in Pakistan; but even if some of them don't support them, the general point about Pakistan would remain).
4. As it happens, blasphemy laws are in fact applied in Pakistan on many occasions. People do get punished. And the vast majority of Pakistanis still support such laws. While the government might or might not apply them on non-religious grounds only (though that's improbable; they probably use them for both religious and non-religious political reasons), popular support seems clearly religiously-driven.
5. It ought to be obvious that popular support for those laws is mostly driven by religion. Even if we didn't have any polls, simply by talking to Muslims you can find on blogs, social networks, etc., you'll find pretty good evidence (yes, it's not a poll, but that's not the only way to get good evidence, if you keep digging) that support for legal punishment for blasphemy and/or apostasy is very common in Islam (and in some places, Christianity too), and that supporters - who may actually be against the Pakistani government overall - cite religious texts (the Quran or the hadith, sometimes the Bible depending on the case) in support of said views - and there is no good reason to think they're being dishonest; they're just committed to the religion they were indoctrinated in, like most people are. But some religions are more evil and/or more dangerous than others.
 
So what is the point of the OP? That there are people with radical religious views? That some countries have governments that suffer from being founded with religious extremism (or at least political extremism)?
i think he should be admit to psychiatric hospital do not kill
This reminds me of the film The Conspiracy, where you have the Nazis discussing "the final solution" and you are left kind of cheering on the guy who "just" wants to sterilize the Jewish instead of murder them. That is how twisted the conversation is with the radicals.

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody? what about Prophet Mohamed?
he didn't insult other religions
Naw, he just conquered people of other religions. It wasn't personal or anything.
 
Back
Top Bottom