Turkey reforms into a federal republic

[LordKiran]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_constitutional_referendum,_2017

So this happened a few weeks ago. There's a lot to go through so I'm not really sure on the full implications of this, but the short of it appears to be that Turkey abolished it's Prime ministry position in favor of a US styled executive presidency. Thoughts?

 

[Derec]

Whether a country is federal is not determined by what respective powers the parliament and the president have. For example, Germany is a federal republic (it says right there on the tin), but it still has a parliamentary system with the president being a largely ceremonial office.
As far as I know, this referendum did not change the unitary nature of Turkey.

 

[LordKiran]

My mistake. The office of Prime Minister was abolished.

 

[J842P]

So, what exactly is the relationship between the Nationalists and the "Islamic-Democrats" in Turkey?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Turkey is moving towards dictatorship.

 

[fromderinside]

Is this the thread for Gong show applicants?

Turkey voters handed most power over to Erdagon. As i understand his preferences he's trying to overturn secularism in Turkey in favor of some form of Islamic state. Putting control of most levers of power in the president, Erdogon, would facilitate moving institutions toward religious, authoritarian, mechanics.

 

[Jayjay]

A referendum where Erdogan won by a margin of 0.4% and with accusations of widespread fraud that the Turkish officials are refusing to investigate. And there have been massive purges of police officers since. It's going to be very hard for Turkey to recover, becuese now that Erdogan can freely appoint judges and rig the game (even more) to his favour the fragmented opposition doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Treedbear]

I'm not so sure he's on that firm ground. I heard he lost Istanbul, his home town. It's not like he has some kind of mandate. It's just that Turks aren't that worried about a strongman. They've had good ones and bad ones. The population is 97% literate and increasing. I think their economy is supposed to be strong. But they depend on Russia, Iran, and Israel for 100% of their oil and gas. They have no nuclear power. In short they know they need to compromise.

 

[Jayjay]

I'm not so sure he's on that firm ground. I heard he lost Istanbul, his home town. It's not like he has some kind of mandate. It's just that Turks aren't that worried about a strongman. They've had good ones and bad ones. The population is 97% literate and increasing. I think their economy is supposed to be strong. But they depend on Russia, Iran, and Israel for 100% of their oil and gas. They have no nuclear power. In short they know they need to compromise.

Russia and Iran are anti-Western autocracies, they are not going to give a crap about Turkey becoming one too. I expect them to start cooperating more, rather than less. Israel and Turkey may grow apart due to Erdogans islamist tendencies, but I doubt that's going to be the straw that breaks Erdogan's back.

The problem with dictators is that they don't need a "mandate" from the people. All they need is to have the police, the army, the courts, and the media on their side. Fuck the people.

 

[LordKiran]

I'm not so sure he's on that firm ground. I heard he lost Istanbul, his home town. It's not like he has some kind of mandate. It's just that Turks aren't that worried about a strongman. They've had good ones and bad ones. The population is 97% literate and increasing. I think their economy is supposed to be strong. But they depend on Russia, Iran, and Israel for 100% of their oil and gas. They have no nuclear power. In short they know they need to compromise.

Russia and Iran are anti-Western autocracies, they are not going to give a crap about Turkey becoming one too. I expect them to start cooperating more, rather than less. Israel and Turkey may grow apart due to Erdogans islamist tendencies, but I doubt that's going to be the straw that breaks Erdogan's back.

The problem with dictators is that they don't need a "mandate" from the people. All they need is to have the police, the army, the courts, and the media on their side. Fuck the people.

The interesting thing about Iran is that their government's stance is not necessarily representative of the people who live there. I'd be interested in reopening diplomatic ties should the country see a liberal sweep in the foreseeable future.

 

[SimpleDon]

Russia and Iran are anti-Western autocracies, they are not going to give a crap about Turkey becoming one too. I expect them to start cooperating more, rather than less. Israel and Turkey may grow apart due to Erdogans islamist tendencies, but I doubt that's going to be the straw that breaks Erdogan's back.

The problem with dictators is that they don't need a "mandate" from the people. All they need is to have the police, the army, the courts, and the media on their side. Fuck the people.

The interesting thing about Iran is that their government's stance is not necessarily representative of the people who live there. I'd be interested in reopening diplomatic ties should the country see a liberal sweep in the foreseeable future.

I agree. I did a lot of business in Iran even under the economic sanctions. I have never felt unwelcome in the country and most people are apologetic about their government and the Imams. They seem to like Americans and were generally the only country in the Middle East who were happy that we had invaded Iraq.

We helped the Iranians recover from the Bam earthquake of 2003 to get their cement plant running again, which was needed to rebuild their city. My site structural engineer at the time was Iranian, a graduate of California State San Diego, and he went there to head up our efforts. He was our knowledgeable person about earthquake requirements. The company that we worked for was somewhat disappointed that we hadn't sent more Americans to the work site. There was a considerable American presence in the relief efforts, Marines, and others.

Based on discussions with the Iranians I felt that the US missed an opportunity to better relations with Iran. But the Bush 43 administration had just branded Iran as part of the "axis of evil" and they weren't about to give that up. It is at the very least one of the reasons that the moderate reformer Khatani (sp?) was unable to deliver on his promises and the conservative Ahmadinejad replaced him as president. As in the US it is a disaster when conservatives get into power.

I don't think that Iran has especially good relations with either Russia or Turkey. Turkey is majority Sunni and Iran is Shia Muslim. Iran's relationship with Russia has been, in an understatement, turbulent in the past with Russia repeatedly invading Iran or as it was known previously, Persia. But the sanctions put on the Iranians because of their refusal to stop the enrichment of Uranium pushed Iran closer to Russia and China. But I believe that the Iranians will treat Russia warily especially now that the sanctions have eased off.

 

[funinspace]

The interesting thing about Iran is that their government's stance is not necessarily representative of the people who live there. I'd be interested in reopening diplomatic ties should the country see a liberal sweep in the foreseeable future.

I agree. I did a lot of business in Iran even under the economic sanctions. I have never felt unwelcome in the country and most people are apologetic about their government and the Imams. They seem to like Americans and were generally the only country in the Middle East who were happy that we had invaded Iraq.

We helped the Iranians recover from the Bam earthquake of 2003 to get their cement plant running again, which was needed to rebuild their city. My site structural engineer at the time was Iranian, a graduate of California State San Diego, and he went there to head up our efforts. He was our knowledgeable person about earthquake requirements. The company that we worked for was somewhat disappointed that we hadn't sent more Americans to the work site. There was a considerable American presence in the relief efforts, Marines, and others.

Based on discussions with the Iranians I felt that the US missed an opportunity to better relations with Iran. But the Bush 43 administration had just branded Iran as part of the "axis of evil" and they weren't about to give that up. It is at the very least one of the reasons that the moderate reformer Khatani (sp?) was unable to deliver on his promises and the conservative Ahmadinejad replaced him as president. As in the US it is a disaster when conservatives get into power.

I don't think that Iran has especially good relations with either Russia or Turkey. Turkey is majority Sunni and Iran is Shia Muslim. Iran's relationship with Russia has been, in an understatement, turbulent in the past with Russia repeatedly invading Iran or as it was known previously, Persia. But the sanctions put on the Iranians because of their refusal to stop the enrichment of Uranium pushed Iran closer to Russia and China. But I believe that the Iranians will treat Russia warily especially now that the sanctions have eased off.

Yep, to pretty much all of that. Additionally, Iran and Turkey are pretty much on opposite sides of the greater Syrian fiasco. Turkey and Iran do have the Kurds as a common ethnic group they prefer kept down.

Iran's concern about Russia is probably why they seem to work pretty hard on improving Chinese relations, to be owned/dominated by no one.

 

[J842P]

I agree. I did a lot of business in Iran even under the economic sanctions. I have never felt unwelcome in the country and most people are apologetic about their government and the Imams. They seem to like Americans and were generally the only country in the Middle East who were happy that we had invaded Iraq.

We helped the Iranians recover from the Bam earthquake of 2003 to get their cement plant running again, which was needed to rebuild their city. My site structural engineer at the time was Iranian, a graduate of California State San Diego, and he went there to head up our efforts. He was our knowledgeable person about earthquake requirements. The company that we worked for was somewhat disappointed that we hadn't sent more Americans to the work site. There was a considerable American presence in the relief efforts, Marines, and others.

Based on discussions with the Iranians I felt that the US missed an opportunity to better relations with Iran. But the Bush 43 administration had just branded Iran as part of the "axis of evil" and they weren't about to give that up. It is at the very least one of the reasons that the moderate reformer Khatani (sp?) was unable to deliver on his promises and the conservative Ahmadinejad replaced him as president. As in the US it is a disaster when conservatives get into power.

I don't think that Iran has especially good relations with either Russia or Turkey. Turkey is majority Sunni and Iran is Shia Muslim. Iran's relationship with Russia has been, in an understatement, turbulent in the past with Russia repeatedly invading Iran or as it was known previously, Persia. But the sanctions put on the Iranians because of their refusal to stop the enrichment of Uranium pushed Iran closer to Russia and China. But I believe that the Iranians will treat Russia warily especially now that the sanctions have eased off.

Yep, to pretty much all of that. Additionally, Iran and Turkey are pretty much on opposite sides of the greater Syrian fiasco. Turkey and Iran do have the Kurds as a common ethnic group they prefer kept down.

Iran's concern about Russia is probably why they seem to work pretty hard on improving Chinese relations, to be owned/dominated by no one.

To be fair, Iran's opposition to Kurdish independence has never reached even close to the brutality of Turkish or Iraqi resistance.

 

[funinspace]

Yep, to pretty much all of that. Additionally, Iran and Turkey are pretty much on opposite sides of the greater Syrian fiasco. Turkey and Iran do have the Kurds as a common ethnic group they prefer kept down.

Iran's concern about Russia is probably why they seem to work pretty hard on improving Chinese relations, to be owned/dominated by no one.

To be fair, Iran's opposition to Kurdish independence has never reached even close to the brutality of Turkish or Iraqi resistance.

Yep, wasn't trying to compare brutalities, just common interest. I doubt Iran cares about how Turkey handles ethnic Kurdish unrest within Turkey. It is somewhat similar to how the US government really doesn't care about how Turkey handles Kurdish unrest.