Psychologist's take on religion: human need for significance

[Copernicus]

Social psychology professor Clay Routledge has an opinion piece in the NY Times about why large numbers of people can be considered "religious" even after dropping their affiliation with traditional religions.

Link: Don't Believe in God? Maybe You'll Try U.F.O.s

His thesis is that a great many people are driven to find a sense of significance in their lives, and religion provides that. However, so does belief in the paranormal (spirits, ghosts, magic, etc.) and alien visitors (UFOs). Basically, his research attempts to set up a scale of measurement for the "search for meaning" drive and then correlate it with religious belief and paranormal beliefs. Those interested in the actual study, as opposed to the NY Times overview, can find a PDF version at this link: We are not alone: The meaning motive, religiosity, and belief in extraterrestrial intelligence.

Here is Routledge's conclusion in the NY Times piece:

A great many atheists and agnostics, of course, do not think U.F.O.s exist. I’m not suggesting that if you reject traditional religious belief, you will necessarily find yourself believing in alien visitors. But because beliefs about U.F.O.s and aliens do not explicitly invoke the supernatural and are couched in scientific and technological jargon, they may be more palatable to those who reject the metaphysics of more traditional religious systems.

It is important to note that thus far, research indicates only that the need for meaning inspires these types of paranormal beliefs, not that such beliefs actually do a good job of providing meaning. There are reasons to suspect they are poor substitutes for religion: They are not part of a well-established social and institutional support system and they lack a deeper and historically rich philosophy of meaning. Seeking meaning does not always equal finding meaning.

The Western world is, in theory, becoming increasingly secular — but the religious mind remains active. The question now is, how can society satisfactorily meet people’s religious and spiritual needs?

Comments? How many of you atheists out there believe in ghosts or UFOs?

 

[OLDMAN]

I think we all have a need to connect to something bigger than we are...simply hoping our species survives makes you a humanist. The need to be famous drives some people, with others it's a need to connect with nature. Ghosts, ufo's all point to something bigger, which gives our lives more meaning even though we live short lifespans and accomplish little in the grand scheme. (which doesn't really exist)

There could be something to the ufo story, it isn't impossible...unlike the God with three heads.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Well, in point of fact I am the universe. I'm not the whole fucking thing but I am it. And as far as my powers of observation and intellect can ascertain there is nothing bigger or more powerful or more significant.

Now I could pretend in a magic spaceman that really likes me and that I'm going to go live with one day and that inseminates me with its magic, but I find that rather demeaning and disrespectful. Or I could start investigating anecdotal reports of mysterious aliens that travel great distances to do silly little things to kooky members of my species. But that doesn't seem to raise the intellect bar much above my toenails.

Okay, if I'm a kid or have a mental challenge that needs some cultural medication just to be able to survive, I suppose any form of baby dolls for play will do, but the rest of me knows and understands otherwise.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't believe in UFOs, I have evidence for UFOs. Because, after all, if there isn't alien life on other planets, then where did Superman come from?

Until the closed minded atheists can answer that, I don't want to hear their bullshit anti-scientific rationalization a about how UFOs are made up.

 

[Copernicus]

I'm still a little uncomfortable with the way Professor Routledge frames his conclusions, though. Terms like "meaning" and "significance" are metaphorical pointers to language, so he seems to be using his research to promote a metaphor that is too closely related to the ancient theistic claim that human beings were created to serve deities, i.e. to satisfy their craving for worship. Anyway, there is no denying that religion is very much a social phenomenon. It is closely associated with moral strictures, which are rules of engagement for interaction with other human beings.

There may be other ways to interpret his results--for example, that they are an effect of the way we understand or model reality in terms of human experience. Animism is almost a universal phenomenon across human cultures--that is, the tendency to impute "souls" or spiritual existence to objects and other life forms in our surroundings. Since we understand new concepts by relating them to past experiences and established concepts, it is only natural to interpret forces in nature as motivated by thought processes of some sort. After all, we can move our own bodies by willing them to move, so it seems natural to think of the movement of stars or the eruption of a volcano as an act set in motion by volition. Likewise, it is not so hard to imagine that we continue to exist as beings of pure thought after the physical body dies and strange atmospheric phenomena as visitors from another planet. Seen from that perspective, Routledge's research might really just be measuring the ability of individuals to challenge their natural inclination to impute volition to natural phenomena. Therefore, atheists ought to be skeptical of the existence of non-deity spiritual beings and alien visitors.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

He rather paints a black and white picture when in reality people are religious to different degrees.

Maybe all that's happening with regards to religion is that people are are rejecting classical religion because it offends their scientific and intellectual sensibilities. Perhaps they still want to be religious in the sense he proposes - seeking meaning and answering existential questions, and perhaps that is all that is happening. Old Timey religion is for intellectual and scientific illiterates, same as it always was, but there are just less of those around.

By his definition I am very religious, but I would never describe myself as having a religious mind.

 

[another1]

I doubt the Godless are more likely to believe in aliens. The numbers will show that they are, only when contrasted. Less Religious people believe in aliens because they aren't allowed to, so it will definitely LOOK like this guy is right.

There was a UFO/alien community way before there was an actual "community" for atheists. I remember a family member getting alien newsletters in the 80's. There weren't many atheism newsletters going around. It was lumped in with satanism because people were still uninformed. People didn't even realize that half of America doesn't believe in God until the internet happened. Now there is communal acceptance in countless places, and borderline Religiosity in the intensity of members all over the country and the world.

Pretty disgusting to think about, but how many atheist groups are there online? A lot. More than there are alien groups, it looks like. I may be wrong but as far as the internet goes, atheism is clicked more often than aliens. People get whatever psychological bs they need from that. Aliens are a poor substitute for people who deny Religion, and see it necessary to form a community around nonexistence of a God. I'd say an actual atheist is LESS likely to believe in aliens, but that is just me. Who the hell is this psychologist and why is he so dumb btw

 

[another1]

So that guy is saying people have to fill a missing piece with something fantastical? Like, EVERYBODY needs to do this? Naw, people can be as empty as a box of air and still feel good about themselves. Most people I know will deny anything, just to say they are better. Even if it defies logic in life productivity and in civil circumstances. Then again, they do fill in the missing piece with denial rituals, so it all comes full circle. Believing in not believing is more potent than believing in something old, stupid and obviously made up. I can see how a person could fill the piece with rituals motivated by disgust. The missing piece is still filled. Mr. psychologist is kind of right but totally wrong.

You see what I'm saying? Psychologically there is no difference at the end of the day because they all lick themselves with the same kind of tongue. The wound is there no matter what, and the warm, sandy tongue will get down into the tender crevices always.

 

[OLDMAN]

So that guy is saying people have to fill a missing piece with something fantastical? Like, EVERYBODY needs to do this? Naw, people can be as empty as a box of air and still feel good about themselves. Most people I know will deny anything, just to say they are better. Even if it defies logic in life productivity and in civil circumstances. Then again, they do fill in the missing piece with denial rituals, so it all comes full circle. Believing in not believing is more potent than believing in something old, stupid and obviously made up. I can see how a person could fill the piece with rituals motivated by disgust. The missing piece is still filled. Mr. psychologist is kind of right but totally wrong.

You see what I'm saying? Psychologically there is no difference at the end of the day because they all lick themselves with the same kind of tongue. The wound is there no matter what, and the warm, sandy tongue will get down into the tender crevices always.

Stop crushing viagra in your breakfast cereal. lol Warm, sandy tongue getting into crevices indeed.

 

[Sarpedon]

I would say belief in Aliens would be a result of thinking of oneself as being less significant, rather than a search for more significance. Just think of the special kind of arrogance that it takes to think that this 90 billion light year wide Universe was created all for a single people on a single planet, playing out a petty drama a couple of millenia in length. Once one has put aside such self-centeredness, belief in the likelihood of life elsewhere in the universe is easy and obvious.

Do not conflate the belief in alien life, UFOs and that UFOs are alien life. I believe in alien life, and I believe that people sometimes see flying objects that they are not able to identify. I do not believe that alien life is in the habit of coming to Earth, dissecting cows, and sexually assaulting rednecks and hack writers.

 

[sharon45]

Anyway, there is no denying that religion is very much a social phenomenon. It is closely associated with moral strictures, which are rules of engagement for interaction with other human beings.

Instead, religion is closer to a very private quandary bound by naivety, denial, and victim mentality. If it really was some social phenomenon, we sure could all openly talk about this much more honestly.

 

[Copernicus]

Anyway, there is no denying that religion is very much a social phenomenon. It is closely associated with moral strictures, which are rules of engagement for interaction with other human beings.

Instead, religion is closer to a very private quandary bound by naivety, denial, and victim mentality. If it really was some social phenomenon, we sure could all openly talk about this much more honestly.

I don't share your opinions about religion or your stated rationale for it. Religion is quite obviously a socially organized phenomenon, so your claim is fatuous. I believe that religion is a very natural form of behavior in human beings, and that follows from the fact that it exists in just about every human culture that we are aware of. The research mentioned in the OP may or may not be on the wrong track, but it addresses an interesting question.

 

[sharon45]

Instead, religion is closer to a very private quandary bound by naivety, denial, and victim mentality. If it really was some social phenomenon, we sure could all openly talk about this much more honestly.

I don't share your opinions about religion or your stated rationale for it.

I did not dole out my opinion on religion in this thread, nor its supposed rationale; just conveying desperate people's excuses.

Religion is quite obviously a socially organized phenomenon, so your claim is fatuous.

No, your grasp of religion is absurd, since the vile practice remains exquisitely antisocial and merely one creeping symptom from a much larger human frailty.

I believe that religion is a very natural form of behavior in human beings, and that follows from the fact that it exists in just about every human culture that we are aware of.

Along with many other seriously negative peculiarities.

 

[Copernicus]

I don't share your opinions about religion or your stated rationale for it.

I did not dole out my opinion on religion in this thread, nor its supposed rationale; just conveying desperate people's excuses.

Religion is quite obviously a socially organized phenomenon, so your claim is fatuous.

No, your grasp of religion is absurd, since the vile practice remains exquisitely antisocial and merely one creeping symptom from a much larger human frailty.

I believe that religion is a very natural form of behavior in human beings, and that follows from the fact that it exists in just about every human culture that we are aware of.

Along with many other seriously negative peculiarities.

OK. Well, thanks for giving your perspective on the vile practice anyway.

 

[another1]

There you go Copernicus1 perfect example of the ritual. Even used the word creeping. I don't know if Religion is necessarily a natural behavior for all people but people are definitely ritualistic. With religion it all falls into place I guess.

Ever read up on China's holographically projected cities in the clouds, or the USA's hive drones creating light shows? The Russians are up to some weird shit, too. I suspect we'll eventually be misled, and many people will practice a kooky of spiritualism based around a false alien presence. Actually I don't suspect it but that is what I would do if I had the power. Pretty good idea. I read a short story about aliens coming and repairing a damaged electric grid, providing a means for endless power. Turns out there are no aliens at the end of the story, but everyone is unified because needs have been met. The sweet tooth for electricity stops aching as people worship the power providers. They think the providers are from another world but it is really just an international conspiracy. John G. Trump seized Tesla's missing papers and all that. Actually that part did happen. I found it funny in another story, Trump's evil scientists reset time until he got enough votes. He did say that he could shoot a cop and he wouldn't lose any votes - another thing that happened in real life. Maybe he did shoot a few cops when they were testing the machinery. But that has nothing to do with this thread so I'll stop.

 

[sharon45]

I did not dole out my opinion on religion in this thread, nor its supposed rationale; just conveying desperate people's excuses.

Religion is quite obviously a socially organized phenomenon, so your claim is fatuous.

No, your grasp of religion is absurd, since the vile practice remains exquisitely antisocial and merely one creeping symptom from a much larger human frailty.

I believe that religion is a very natural form of behavior in human beings, and that follows from the fact that it exists in just about every human culture that we are aware of.

Along with many other seriously negative peculiarities.

OK. Well, thanks for giving your perspective on the vile practice anyway.

Oh, no, please allow me to thank you for greatly ignoring what I wrote...

 

[Treedbear]

...
His thesis is that a great many people are driven to find a sense of significance in their lives, and religion provides that. ...

Here is Routledge's conclusion in the NY Times piece:

... But because beliefs about U.F.O.s and aliens do not explicitly invoke the supernatural and are couched in scientific and technological jargon, they may be more palatable to those who reject the metaphysics of more traditional religious systems.

It is important to note that thus far, research indicates only that the need for meaning inspires these types of paranormal beliefs, not that such beliefs actually do a good job of providing meaning. There are reasons to suspect they are poor substitutes for religion: They are not part of a well-established social and institutional support system and they lack a deeper and historically rich philosophy of meaning. Seeking meaning does not always equal finding meaning.

...

Comments? How many of you atheists out there believe in ghosts or UFOs?

I define the search for meaning as the search for understanding. That is what human beings, with their big brains, are good at. Using our brains is how we fulfill our purpose in significant ways. This is how meaning and purpose are linked with metaphysics in a much more rational way than theism; couched as it is in it's spiritual and religious jargon. If atheists are more likely than theists to believe in aliens it's probably because they are simply less inhibited by the religious dogma they have come to find so stifling to creative thought. Also, it's just easier to believe in something that doesn't require life changing commitments. It's no big deal for me to say I believe that aliens created the structures at Puma Punku simply because I find no alternative explanation, and doing so doesn't effect how I understand the rest of the world. True, it prejudices me against theories of how the local inhabitants might have built it on their own. But it inspires the imagination as to the possibility of the existence of extraterestrial life in the universe. A net plus. And I'd love to see some research team demonstrate how this could be have been done otherwise. But it's a mystery that my brain wants an answer to. It's trivial, though, in comparison to the commitments that come from having to explain the origin of life by a creator god.

 

[Copernicus]

What what do we mean when we say that something gives our lives a "meaning" or "significance"? Is there anything beyond a deity that does that? It seems to me that it varies considerably with individuals, but a big part of our existence is our relationships with other people and also with domesticated animals. People are evolved to form social relationships. Virtually all religions invent deities or spirits that believers form imaginary relationships with--the  imaginary friend phenomenon. It is probably reasonable to think of religion as a natural outgrowth of our need to form intimate social relationships. To many believers, atheism does seem to threaten the loss of a very significant aspect of their lives. So I can see why the experimenters thought to look at that kind of bonding as a vector for religious thinking.

@sharon45: I'm sorry that you felt I was being too dismissive, but I'm really not interested in bashing religion and believers. I'm more interested in understanding the phenomenon of religion and why it plays such an important role in human cultures.

 

[Treedbear]

What what do we mean when we say that something gives our lives a "meaning" or "significance"?

I don't know what you mean, but personnally I have the need to disambiguate the words "meaning" and "purpose". People tend to use them together as if they mean one and the same thing. Meaning is simply that which defines something. Broadly speaking that may include everything that has gone into causing something to be what it is. When speaking of human life meaning is derived from heredity and culture. At it's most basic level it is derived from everything that has contributed to our existence which requires us to consider what we are as a species. So at a metaphysical level it is about existence, and therefore purpose is derived from survival. The two are not the same thing but they follow from each other. Significance is usually associated with how we as individuals contribute to that purpose.

Is there anything beyond a deity that does that? It seems to me that it varies considerably with individuals, but a big part of our existence is our relationships with other people and also with domesticated animals. People are evolved to form social relationships. Virtually all religions invent deities or spirits that believers form imaginary relationships with--the  imaginary friend phenomenon. It is probably reasonable to think of religion as a natural outgrowth of our need to form intimate social relationships. To many believers, atheism does seem to threaten the loss of a very significant aspect of their lives. So I can see why the experimenters thought to look at that kind of bonding as a vector for religious thinking.

Religion is a cultural adaptation for survival, similar to things like patriotism and racism. They are ways of controlling societies in order to promote their own existence. They come and go or adapt to changing environments quicker than genetic mutations. So they have been a source of meaning and purpose, but I fail to see anything metaphysical in them. If anything it is religions that rely on the paranormal. Nature is filled with more wonder and awe than any of religion's supernatural seductions. I've never had an imaginary friend as described in your link.

...

 

[rousseau]

People want to feel like their life is meaningful, and that they are important, whether that's through God, a shiny car, or even being useful to someone or something. So yea.. this hypothesis makes total sense to me. If we are not biologically inclined to believe we are important for some reason, why have kids, why go to work, why buy things, why seek out experiences?

What I mean is.. of course there are reasons to enjoy life for it's own sake, but evolution is usually going to ensure that psychologically we believe we are relevant and important, by whatever means. So religion is probably indeed a by-product of our neural wiring.