The lasting effects of Trump on China

[Jolly_Penguin]

So, the Trump tariff trade war with China rages on. Now, in response to Trump putting tariffs against Chinese technology, China has ordered all government offices to cease using US made or developed computers in their offices. This has been sold there as part of China becoming more technologically independent.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...ices-to-remove-all-foreign-computer-equipment

I don't see them pulling this back once Trump is gone, though I do see many of the tariffs he created ceasing. What do you think the long term effects of Trump will be on Chinese relations? 30 years from now what will be left of Trump's presidency's influence?

 

[laughing dog]

Nothing will be left of his influence. China is in this for the very long haul. Much longer than the time horizon that anyone in the USA can tolerate.

 

[RVonse]

China was already at war with the US before Trump even arrived. China already has their own equivalent to google and facebook and is rapidly deploying 5g technology. They have not only beat the US at 5g but are already experimenting with 6g now. So them getting rid of microsoft based computers was going to happen anyway. They have more engineers than the US and many of them college graduates of the US to boot.

Only Trump has been the only politician smart enough to see the writing on the wall. But it may already be too late.

 

[Trausti]

The lasting effect of Trump on China may be to diminish China's global influence. China needs the US; the US doesn't need China. There are many countries happy to poach manufacturing away from China.

HP, Dell and Microsoft look to join electronics exodus from China

HP and Dell, the world's No. 1 and No. 3 personal computer makers who together command around 40% of the global market, are planning to reallocate up to 30% of their notebook production out of China, several sources told the Nikkei Asian Review.

Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Sony and Nintendo are also looking at moving some of their game console and smart speaker manufacturing out of the country, multiple sources told the Nikkei Asian Review. Other leading PC makers such as Lenovo Group, Acer and Asustek Computer are also evaluating plans to shift, according to people familiar with the matter.

Tech companies' plans, spurred by the bitter trade battle between Washington and Beijing, have not changed despite the truce that was struck between U.S. President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping at last weekend's Group of 20 summit in Osaka. Multiple sources said the situation was still too uncertain, while rising costs in China were also prompting manufacturers to examine alternatives.

The decision by some of the world's biggest computer and game console brands to shift production -- mainly of products destined for the U.S. -- follows manufacturing reviews by other tech companies. Apple is exploring the cost implications of moving up to 30% of its smartphone production, Nikkei reported last month. Elsewhere manufacturers of servers, networking products, and some key electronics components are shifting out of China, often at the request of U.S. customers.

A president Hilary Clinton would have kept the status quo.

 

[RVonse]

The lasting effect of Trump on China may be to diminish China's global influence. China needs the US; the US doesn't need China. There are many countries happy to poach manufacturing away from China.

HP, Dell and Microsoft look to join electronics exodus from China

HP and Dell, the world's No. 1 and No. 3 personal computer makers who together command around 40% of the global market, are planning to reallocate up to 30% of their notebook production out of China, several sources told the Nikkei Asian Review.

Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Sony and Nintendo are also looking at moving some of their game console and smart speaker manufacturing out of the country, multiple sources told the Nikkei Asian Review. Other leading PC makers such as Lenovo Group, Acer and Asustek Computer are also evaluating plans to shift, according to people familiar with the matter.

Tech companies' plans, spurred by the bitter trade battle between Washington and Beijing, have not changed despite the truce that was struck between U.S. President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping at last weekend's Group of 20 summit in Osaka. Multiple sources said the situation was still too uncertain, while rising costs in China were also prompting manufacturers to examine alternatives.

The decision by some of the world's biggest computer and game console brands to shift production -- mainly of products destined for the U.S. -- follows manufacturing reviews by other tech companies. Apple is exploring the cost implications of moving up to 30% of its smartphone production, Nikkei reported last month. Elsewhere manufacturers of servers, networking products, and some key electronics components are shifting out of China, often at the request of U.S. customers.

A president Hilary Clinton would have kept the status quo.

For all the Trump haters who cant stand the man.

History will clearly show, for this reason alone Trump to have been the correct choice to lead as POTUS. As you correctly point out, Hillary was completely clueless with China.

IMO, the US and China will be lucky if this does not end up to become a kinectic conflict. Never mind just an economic conflict. And Hillary and the democrats are still stuck on Russia. Yes they have nukes, but are an insignificant player with an economy about the size of New York. Talk about missing the target!

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The lasting effect of Trump on China may be to diminish China's global influence. China needs the US; the US doesn't need China. There are many countries happy to poach manufacturing away from China.

HP, Dell and Microsoft look to join electronics exodus from China

HP and Dell, the world's No. 1 and No. 3 personal computer makers who together command around 40% of the global market, are planning to reallocate up to 30% of their notebook production out of China, several sources told the Nikkei Asian Review.

Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Sony and Nintendo are also looking at moving some of their game console and smart speaker manufacturing out of the country, multiple sources told the Nikkei Asian Review. Other leading PC makers such as Lenovo Group, Acer and Asustek Computer are also evaluating plans to shift, according to people familiar with the matter.

Tech companies' plans, spurred by the bitter trade battle between Washington and Beijing, have not changed despite the truce that was struck between U.S. President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping at last weekend's Group of 20 summit in Osaka. Multiple sources said the situation was still too uncertain, while rising costs in China were also prompting manufacturers to examine alternatives.

The decision by some of the world's biggest computer and game console brands to shift production -- mainly of products destined for the U.S. -- follows manufacturing reviews by other tech companies. Apple is exploring the cost implications of moving up to 30% of its smartphone production, Nikkei reported last month. Elsewhere manufacturers of servers, networking products, and some key electronics components are shifting out of China, often at the request of U.S. customers.

A president Hilary Clinton would have kept the status quo.

For all the Trump haters who cant stand the man.

History will clearly show, for this reason alone Trump to have been the correct choice to lead as POTUS. As you correctly point out, Hillary was completely clueless with China.

IMO, the US and China will be lucky if this does not end up to become a kinectic conflict. Never mind just an economic conflict. And Hillary and the democrats are still stuck on Russia. Yes they have nukes, but are an insignificant player with an economy about the size of New York. Talk about missing the target!

Do you guys get paid by the word or the sophistry? Trump completely fucked us and now China is partnered with Russia, which was the goal the whole time.

 

[laughing dog]

The lasting effect of Trump on China may be to diminish China's global influence. China needs the US; the US doesn't need China. There are many countries happy to poach manufacturing away from China.

HP, Dell and Microsoft look to join electronics exodus from China

HP and Dell, the world's No. 1 and No. 3 personal computer makers who together command around 40% of the global market, are planning to reallocate up to 30% of their notebook production out of China, several sources told the Nikkei Asian Review.

Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Sony and Nintendo are also looking at moving some of their game console and smart speaker manufacturing out of the country, multiple sources told the Nikkei Asian Review. Other leading PC makers such as Lenovo Group, Acer and Asustek Computer are also evaluating plans to shift, according to people familiar with the matter.

Tech companies' plans, spurred by the bitter trade battle between Washington and Beijing, have not changed despite the truce that was struck between U.S. President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping at last weekend's Group of 20 summit in Osaka. Multiple sources said the situation was still too uncertain, while rising costs in China were also prompting manufacturers to examine alternatives.

The decision by some of the world's biggest computer and game console brands to shift production -- mainly of products destined for the U.S. -- follows manufacturing reviews by other tech companies. Apple is exploring the cost implications of moving up to 30% of its smartphone production, Nikkei reported last month. Elsewhere manufacturers of servers, networking products, and some key electronics components are shifting out of China, often at the request of U.S. customers.

A president Hilary Clinton would have kept the status quo.

For all the Trump haters who cant stand the man.

History will clearly show, for this reason alone Trump to have been the correct choice to lead as POTUS. As you correctly point out, Hillary was completely clueless with China.

LOL. China has always taken the very long view - unlike Trump and his followers. It would not matter who was President - there would be no long run effect on China.

 

[RVonse]

For all the Trump haters who cant stand the man.

History will clearly show, for this reason alone Trump to have been the correct choice to lead as POTUS. As you correctly point out, Hillary was completely clueless with China.

LOL. China has always taken the very long view - unlike Trump and his followers. It would not matter who was President - there would be no long run effect on China.

Is that why China has gone from nowhere to superpower status in the last 30 years? Basically an exponential rise since being admitted to the world trade organization?

That does not sound very long term to me.

 

[laughing dog]

For all the Trump haters who cant stand the man.

History will clearly show, for this reason alone Trump to have been the correct choice to lead as POTUS. As you correctly point out, Hillary was completely clueless with China.

LOL. China has always taken the very long view - unlike Trump and his followers. It would not matter who was President - there would be no long run effect on China.

Is that why China has gone from nowhere to superpower status in the last 30 years? Basically an exponential rise since being admitted to the world trade organization?

That does not sound very long term to me.

Why would anyone think that thinking long-term precludes short-run gains?

The point is that China does not care that much about Trump. Right now, he is an annoying bump in the road, but he will be gone either in one year or four years - like any US President. China can afford to wait him out.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Is that why China has gone from nowhere to superpower status in the last 30 years? Basically an exponential rise since being admitted to the world trade organization?

That does not sound very long term to me.

Why would anyone think that thinking long-term precludes short-run gains?

The point is that China does not care that much about Trump. Right now, he is an annoying bump in the road, but he will be gone either in one year or four years - like any US President. China can afford to wait him out.

Especially now that they are partners with Russia, who will soon become the world's largest distributor of gasoline--and therefore control the world the way OPEC does now--especially if Trump gets another four years. The systematic destruction of America will be complete and it will take us a good ten years--at least--and a two-term Dem like Obama as President to correct all of the fuckups and by that point it may be too late.

Putin got what he intended in spite of it all being revealed and, per usual, Dems will have to unfuck everything the Republicans fucked, only if Trump gets another four years that will take us beyond any hope of recovery shorter than at least a decade if at all. That's an awfully long time to be out of the loop while China and Russia just assume command.

 

[RVonse]

Is that why China has gone from nowhere to superpower status in the last 30 years? Basically an exponential rise since being admitted to the world trade organization?

That does not sound very long term to me.

Why would anyone think that thinking long-term precludes short-run gains?

The short term gains came exactly at the time and because China was admitted into the WTO. Because the incorrect thought process at that time was that China would get a taste of capitalism and then open up to democracy. Our leaders knew good and well they were cheating but they turned a blind eye hoping the economic benefits would be realized and that that would convince them how flawed communism was. China prosperity came directly at the expense of US manufacturing sent via US corporations looking for short term profits.

But instead of proving how superior democracy was (and is), the Chinese proved to us their form of centralized government works in their favor with the free capitalism we sent to them. China tells us all they want is free trade ....but what they really want is a lop sided arrangement to continue in their benefit.

The point is that China does not care that much about Trump. Right now, he is an annoying bump in the road, but he will be gone either in one year or four years - like any US President. China can afford to wait him out.

Trump will come and go, I agree. But our representatives in the US government are becoming much more "woke" to how voters really feel about China and the state of unfair trade with them. And Trump has indeed been a big component of this.

 

[RVonse]

For all the Trump haters who cant stand the man.

History will clearly show, for this reason alone Trump to have been the correct choice to lead as POTUS. As you correctly point out, Hillary was completely clueless with China.

IMO, the US and China will be lucky if this does not end up to become a kinectic conflict. Never mind just an economic conflict. And Hillary and the democrats are still stuck on Russia. Yes they have nukes, but are an insignificant player with an economy about the size of New York. Talk about missing the target!

Do you guys get paid by the word or the sophistry? Trump completely fucked us and now China is partnered with Russia, which was the goal the whole time.

Not sure I am following you. Are you claiming Trump purposely caused China and Russia to partner with each other? And if so, are you saying Trump did this because he was stupid or are you saying Trump did this because he was paid off by Russia (conspiracy theory)?

 

[laughing dog]

The short term gains came exactly at the time and because China was admitted into the WTO. Because the incorrect thought process at that time was that China would get a taste of capitalism and then open up to democracy. Our leaders knew good and well they were cheating but they turned a blind eye hoping the economic benefits would be realized and that that would convince them how flawed communism was. China prosperity came directly at the expense of US manufacturing sent via US corporations looking for short term profits.

But instead of proving how superior democracy was (and is), the Chinese proved to us their form of centralized government works in their favor with the free capitalism we sent to them. China tells us all they want is free trade ....but what they really want is a lop sided arrangement to continue in their benefit.

To be fair, all we want is free trade that is lopsided to our benefit. No one in their right mind was serious that China would quickly open up to Democracy.

Trump will come and go, I agree. But our representatives in the US government are becoming much more "woke" to how voters really feel about China and the state of unfair trade with them. And Trump has indeed been a big component of this.

Most voters did not and do not care about whether China was engaging in fair or unfair trade. And most farmers in my region are "woke" as to how Trump's trade war with China is screwing them over.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think this is due to the trade war, but rather retaliation for our excluding Chinese spy hardware from the US.

 

[RVonse]

I don't think this is due to the trade war, but rather retaliation for our excluding Chinese spy hardware from the US.

That makes perfect sense and also very good reason for none of us in the US not to care whether they throw our tech out of China.

Because given the choice, I would much rather be free with personal liberty....even if that means remaining poor business wise. Being rich does you no good at all unless you are both healthy and free.

 

[RVonse]

I don't think this is due to the trade war, but rather retaliation for our excluding Chinese spy hardware from the US.

That makes perfect sense and also very good reason for none of us in the US not to care whether they throw our tech out of China.

Because given the choice, I would much rather be free with personal liberty....even if that means remaining poor business wise. Being rich does you no good at all unless you are both healthy and free.

Once the state is able to put out trillions of bits of personal data together with millions of legal codes, we will all be exposed as criminals, every last one of us. Jerry Day.

 

[RVonse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cGB8dCDf3c

They all start with a social credit score of 1000 and then subtract for any littering, jaywalking, or cussing. Then for the worst offenders there is public shaming where your picture is posted on the led billboard for public ridicule.