A New US People's Party?

[Loren Pechtel]

Is this another Republican effort to mess with the election?

As far as I can tell, no.

From "Our Plan", "Run inspiring candidates and build a bench of elected officials." -- that is only feasible with running candidates at lower levels of gov't. It looks as if the MPP will be doing what the Greens and Libertarians have long neglected to do: run lots of local, state, and Congressional candidates.

The Republicans have funded other candidates to try to divide the Democrat vote.

 

[Harry Bosch]

EXCLUSIVE: Cornel West On Whether The Left Should Stick With Dem Party Or Make A Clean BREAK - YouTube

Krystal Ball interviews Cornel West.

CW endorses voting for Joe Biden as the lesser of the two major-party evils. Even though he is too wimpy to take on the many problems that we face, too wedded to the sorts of neoliberal paradigms that got us into this mess.

As to working within the Democratic Party vs. building a third party, it's an awkward dilemma. Consider how the Democratic establishment screwed over Bernie Sanders.

As to building a working-people coalition, that's going to be awfully hard. A lot of the white working class likes the Republican Party, and a lot of the black and Hispanic working class likes the Democratic Party.

Nothing on what's going on in the People's Party, however.

How in the world did Bernie get screwed? I've heard this from others as well, not just you. Is it your opinion that a person running for the first time should be allowed to allowed to win with fewer votes? Then when he ran against Biden, he was very well known. Why should he be appointed the position with fewer votes than Biden? As an aside, I liked Kloboucher the most. But I didn't want her to win unless she got the most votes. And I certainly didn't think that she got "screwed by the establishment".

 

[Rhea]

EXCLUSIVE: Cornel West On Whether The Left Should Stick With Dem Party Or Make A Clean BREAK - YouTube

Krystal Ball interviews Cornel West.

CW endorses voting for Joe Biden as the lesser of the two major-party evils. Even though he is too wimpy to take on the many problems that we face, too wedded to the sorts of neoliberal paradigms that got us into this mess.

As to working within the Democratic Party vs. building a third party, it's an awkward dilemma. Consider how the Democratic establishment screwed over Bernie Sanders.

As to building a working-people coalition, that's going to be awfully hard. A lot of the white working class likes the Republican Party, and a lot of the black and Hispanic working class likes the Democratic Party.

Nothing on what's going on in the People's Party, however.

How in the world did Bernie get screwed? I've heard this from others as well, not just you. Is it your opinion that a person running for the first time should be allowed to allowed to win with fewer votes? Then when he ran against Biden, he was very well known. Why should he be appointed the position with fewer votes than Biden? As an aside, I liked Kloboucher the most. But I didn't want her to win unless she got the most votes. And I certainly didn't think that she got "screwed by the establishment".

I wonder aboout this complaint, too. Bernie Spent 40 years saying how awful the Dems were. Then when he went asking for their support, he was blindsided by the fact that they didn’t all drop their candidate and sing his praises, and he was incensed that without those praises, he didn’t have the campaign to change their minds himself? I alway wondered what Sanders and his supporters thought was supposd to happen among all the people Sanders had been insulting for 40 years. That always seemed odd to me.

Sanders ran his own campaign, no one guaranteed him support, nor even promised him any because he had always sppit on it. He ran his own campaign and he didn’t have as much support as he thought. Maybe slinging mud all those years was a bad idea.

 

[Harry Bosch]

EXCLUSIVE: Cornel West On Whether The Left Should Stick With Dem Party Or Make A Clean BREAK - YouTube

Krystal Ball interviews Cornel West.

CW endorses voting for Joe Biden as the lesser of the two major-party evils. Even though he is too wimpy to take on the many problems that we face, too wedded to the sorts of neoliberal paradigms that got us into this mess.

As to working within the Democratic Party vs. building a third party, it's an awkward dilemma. Consider how the Democratic establishment screwed over Bernie Sanders.

As to building a working-people coalition, that's going to be awfully hard. A lot of the white working class likes the Republican Party, and a lot of the black and Hispanic working class likes the Democratic Party.

Nothing on what's going on in the People's Party, however.

How in the world did Bernie get screwed? I've heard this from others as well, not just you. Is it your opinion that a person running for the first time should be allowed to allowed to win with fewer votes? Then when he ran against Biden, he was very well known. Why should he be appointed the position with fewer votes than Biden? As an aside, I liked Kloboucher the most. But I didn't want her to win unless she got the most votes. And I certainly didn't think that she got "screwed by the establishment".

I wonder aboout this complaint, too. Bernie Spent 40 years saying how awful the Dems were. Then when he went asking for their support, he was blindsided by the fact that they didn’t all drop their candidate and sing his praises, and he was incensed that without those praises, he didn’t have the campaign to change their minds himself? I alway wondered what Sanders and his supporters thought was supposd to happen among all the people Sanders had been insulting for 40 years. That always seemed odd to me.

Sanders ran his own campaign, no one guaranteed him support, nor even promised him any because he had always sppit on it. He ran his own campaign and he didn’t have as much support as he thought. Maybe slinging mud all those years was a bad idea.

Very good point. And I've also heard some Bernie supporters say that some of the southern vote (which went Biden very strongly) should be discounted because some of those folks are "democrats in name only". Or that they are not the true base of the party. What! I'm sorry but the base is no longer white North eastern people! Having said that, we need a strong diverse base made of all Americans. And since we're losing elections despite having far more voters, we cannot afford to disenfranchise any democratic voter. Therefore, whoever gets the most votes needs to get the nod.

 

[Emily Lake]

Though IRV has the virtue of being essentially spoiler-proof, it sometimes produces odd results.  2009 Burlington mayoral election was such an election, and it led to the city backing off from IRV.

The candidates were Andy Montroll (Democrat), Kurt Wright (Republican), Bob Kiss (Progressive), Dan Smith (Independent), and James Simpson (Green).

IRV rounds:

1. DS JS dropped, leaving AM KW BK
2. AM dropped, leaving KW BK
3. KW dropped, leaving BK

Winners with methods:

• KW: FPTP
• BK: TopTwo, IRV
• AM: Borda (ranks->ratings), Condorcet methods (their winner is the one-on-one winner, if there is such a winner)

In fact, the candidates form a good one-on-one victory sequence: AM, BK, KW, DS, JS

I'm a fan of condorcet (although I can never remember the name) and closely related variants. It generally ends up providing a winner that is the most acceptable to the largest number of people... which also suggests they would be the most effective and the most representative of "the people" as a whole.

 

[Emily Lake]

How in the world did Bernie get screwed?

I wonder aboout this complaint, too.

I don't know about screwed, exactly... but I do think there was a missed opportunity there. I actually think there was some short-sightedness from the Democratic Party by focusing on it from a purely party perspective.

In 2016, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have voted for him rather than third party. For this year, if Bernie had won out over Biden, I'd have no hesitation voting for him. As it stands... I'm probably going to vote third party again. I know a LOT of people who feel the same way I do, but most of them aren't registered Democrats, and in a lot of states, you can't vote in the primaries unless you're registered for that party. I think the Dems missed out on a lot of independent support that I think Bernie could have garnered.

Even if I think some of his plans are too extreme and wouldn't work out, I respected Bernie, and I believe that he actually wanted to support the people, and wasn't in it for himself.

 

[Jarhyn]

How in the world did Bernie get screwed?

I wonder aboout this complaint, too.

I don't know about screwed, exactly... but I do think there was a missed opportunity there. I actually think there was some short-sightedness from the Democratic Party by focusing on it from a purely party perspective.

In 2016, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have voted for him rather than third party. For this year, if Bernie had won out over Biden, I'd have no hesitation voting for him. As it stands... I'm probably going to vote third party again. I know a LOT of people who feel the same way I do, but most of them aren't registered Democrats, and in a lot of states, you can't vote in the primaries unless you're registered for that party. I think the Dems missed out on a lot of independent support that I think Bernie could have garnered.

Even if I think some of his plans are too extreme and wouldn't work out, I respected Bernie, and I believe that he actually wanted to support the people, and wasn't in it for himself.

I would rather someone have high hopes and big plans that congress won't act on than someone who has small plans and inspires no hope doing little to nothing.

At any rate, the republicans have been delaying an inevitable economic correction for a while now, and I expect them to stop kicking the can and leaving a mess for Biden to clean up, if Biden wins. I don't know if Biden is even capable of handling that massive shitshow.

That said, he's definitely more capable than any other viable alternative.

 

[lpetrich]

A Convention to Believe In: Movement For A People’s Party is Ready to Make History – Due Dissidence

Do we continue to press for reform of the Democratic Party from within, or take on the admittedly daunting project of building a new party from without?

Nick Braña, political outreach coordinator for the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign, has been persuasively arguing the latter since the days after that election cycle ended. He penned a piece in the Huffington Post shortly after Trump’s victory entitled “Sanders Can Be The Lincoln Of Our Times.” In it, he made the case for why Bernie ought to found a major new political party, and subsequently led a “Draft Bernie” movement in attempt to recruit him to do just that. When it became clear that Sanders wasn’t interested, Bernie’s name was dropped from the campaign, and the Movement for a People’s Party was born.

For the past three years, MPP has been tirelessly organizing and broadening its coalition, partnering with allied groups like the Poor People’s Campaign, Zero Hour, Move to Amend, and others.

Lots of activist groups.

I also note from this party's plan that it plans to attract disaffected voters. But they've heard a lot of promises from politicians before, promises that those politicians seem to them have broken. Politicians like Barack Obama.

So the MPP is better off running its candidates in strongly Democratic districts -- and supporting candidates who would prefer to run as Democrats.

 

[lpetrich]

2024 is too soon. It’s the very next election. They need to establish positions in congress first. Or they are just trying to parachute into the CEO job and will hand it to those farthest from their ideas, as did Perot, Nader and Sanders.

Or John Anderson, for that matter. I'm old enough to remember a joke about the 1980 Presidential campaign that it was like a Grecian Formula hair-dye commercial. Anderson: no dye, Carter: some dye, Reagan: all dye.

Build the base. Build the legislatures, the school boards, the county boards and the town boards. Build that. Take the time to do it solid. Caucus with the party most like you until you are sure you can absolutely, on your own, beat the party least like you. Until then. Coalition and build.

I agree.

 Brand New Congress has more of a sense of strategy than what I've seen from the MPP so far. Here's why I say that. In early 2016, Bernie Sanders's first Presidential campaign was winding down. Some of his campaigners thought of what to do next. They decided that a good President would not be anything without a good Congress, something likely provoked by watching what trouble Congress was for President Obama. So they decided to campaign for the election of Congresspeople.

BNC's founders originally wanted to run BNC as a European-style political party, with unified messaging. But they saw how little success third parties have had in the US, so they decided not to create a new party. Instead, most of their candidates would run as Democrats and Republicans, as appropriate, with some of them being Independents.

They wanted to run a candidate for every available Congressional seat: all 435 House seats and 33 or 34 Senate seats, but they were unable to recruit the necessary number of candidates in time for 2018, the first opportunity. They settled for 30 candidates, 28 Democrats, 1 Republican, and 1 Independent. Of the major-party candidates, only 9 Democrats and no Republicans won their primaries. Only one candidate won in the general election, one of the Democrats: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

She won in good part because she ran as a Democrat. This made it easy for her to win the general election, because her district, NY-14, votes heavily Democratic. That also meant that she had to win the primary, and that was a major struggle for her and her campaigners, even with incumbent Joe Crowley's complacency and neglect of his district.

She was joined by Ayanna Pressley in 2018, and she will likely be joined by Marie Newman, Jamaal Bowman, and Cori Bush this year.

 

[Harry Bosch]

How in the world did Bernie get screwed?

I wonder aboout this complaint, too.

I don't know about screwed, exactly... but I do think there was a missed opportunity there. I actually think there was some short-sightedness from the Democratic Party by focusing on it from a purely party perspective.

In 2016, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have voted for him rather than third party. For this year, if Bernie had won out over Biden, I'd have no hesitation voting for him. As it stands... I'm probably going to vote third party again. I know a LOT of people who feel the same way I do, but most of them aren't registered Democrats, and in a lot of states, you can't vote in the primaries unless you're registered for that party. I think the Dems missed out on a lot of independent support that I think Bernie could have garnered.

Even if I think some of his plans are too extreme and wouldn't work out, I respected Bernie, and I believe that he actually wanted to support the people, and wasn't in it for himself.

With respect, I doubt that anyone who would even consider voting third party in 2020, helping Trump, would not be reachable by any nominal democrat. Secondly, there's no way we can ignore the popular vote that went with Biden (who was majority non white vote) for the white guy with fewer votes and delegates. That would absolutely destroy the democratic party.

 

[lpetrich]

'DemExit': virtual convention aims to create US leftwing alternative | US news | The Guardian

The convention revives an evergreen debate on the left: whether to follow the likes of Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York and reform the Democratic party from within, or to conclude that it is irredeemably beholden to corporate interests and walk away to create something new.

The MPP, founded by a variety of Senator Bernie Sanders’ 2016 campaign staff, delegates and volunteers, embraces the latter approach. The party’s website has a page headlined “#DemExit” that declares: “Dear DNC: This is our Declaration of Independence from your Corporate Party.”

Democrats seem united on defeating Trump.

Although America prides itself on giving consumers freedom of choice over everything from television to ice cream, it does not boast the type of multiparty democracies seen in Europe and elsewhere. The MPP contends that the current duopoly will never deliver single-payer Medicare for All, higher education as a human right, a solution to the climate crisis or the dismantling of mass incarceration.

Others speaking at the People’s Convention, however, are reluctant to give up on the Democrats altogether. Nina Turner, a co-chair of Sanders’ primary campaign in 2020 and member of the Democratic national committee, said: “I support the movement and I am very clear that there are some progressives who want to ‘#DemExit’ but there are some progressives who believe, ‘It’s my party, I can cry if I want to and I’m going stay inside and push’.

“I support both of those forces because I think at the end of the day, even though they might be going down slightly different roads, they are parallel and the end point is the same. That’s why I’m speaking at this convention: that yearning that some have to form another party, and also I do recognise and support those who say that they’re gonna stay inside the Democratic party and give ’em hell and keep pushing them to the left. Both of those forces are needed. I consider those yin and yang.”

Turner, a former Ohio state senator, does not believe there will be a significant leftwing rebellion against Biden in this year’s election. “The majority of progressives, including ‘Berniecrats’, voted for Secretary Clinton in 2016 and I see that same thing happening in 2020. This will be more of a vote against President Donald J Trump for most progressives than it will be a vote for Vice-President Biden. It’s a binary choice.”

But if Biden is elected, the progressive movement will not give him an easy ride, she added. “We are a fire and the fire is burning and making it very clear that business as usual is not going to be accepted. We’ve got two dragons to slay as I see them for leftists, and that is to slay the dragon of neo-fascism and then slay the dragon of neo-liberalism.”

 

[lpetrich]

The Peoples Convention 2020 - YouTube - length 5:22:25

Live Stream - Movement for a People's Party : WayOfTheBern - I looked through the comments for anything that the speakers said.

I also searched with #PeoplesConvention in Twitter.

Lauren Ashcraft, former NY-12 candidate, argued that all cops are bad - ACAB. I find that to be simplistic and dumb.

Some of the speakers discussed Universal Basic Income - and one of them defended billionaires, using Bill Gates as an example.

The USPS union guy did some Bible-thumping.

The only issue voted on was whether to form a new party -- as far as I can tell, it won by a large margin.

 

[lpetrich]

A lot of controversy about Marianne Williamson's endorsement of Joe Biden.

Marianne Williamson on Twitter: "A lot of people talk about how Biden needs to “earn my vote.” Of course he didn’t “earn your vote.” But I think this is less about what he owes us & more about what we owe millions of people in this country & billions throughout the world who will be affected by a 2nd Trump term." / Twitter

She followed up with

Marianne Williamson on Twitter: "@alanelliott Actually, it doesn’t. We all know what happened here. So this isn’t about Biden earning our vote; it’s about stopping Trump from being president again. In my mind, breaking democracy’s free fall descent into the pit of fascism is reason enough." / Twitter


Eli Kirk on Twitter: "Too bad #PeoplesConvention couldn't have had an audience due to covid, it would have been nice to see the Yang gang delegate being booed for basically saying "actually capitalism is good"" / Twitter

Kamala Kept An Innocent Man In Jail on Twitter: "@ExpatBanana @MarinoForUS @4aPeoplesParty MPP scoffs at the russiagate narrative. What are you talking about?" / Twitter
then
Socialist Banana on Twitter: "@nikoCSFB @MarinoForUS @4aPeoplesParty I'm guessing you misunderstood me. Blue MAGA all over Twitter is trying to claim that #PeoplesConvention was orchestrated by Russia." / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Adam Volle on Twitter: "I’ll watch the #PeoplesConvention at some point but mainly in hopes they explain how the #PeoplesParty wins seats. Running on the Democratic ballot is a real strategy that’s made actual gains, unlike the Green Party." / Twitter

That's also my main interest in watching it.

Why not the Green Party?

unimportant on Twitter: "@TomHanson928 @4aPeoplesParty The green party is an establishment formed by people who aren’t serious about winning, politically. It’s not been built to be a useful platform for progressives. Not trying to antagonize the green party; it has its own uses, but not electorally." / Twitter

It was founded in 1984. That's 36 years ago. It also seems obsessed with the Presidency. It doesn't try very hard to get Green candidates into local or state or Congressional offices.


Y. Selier on Twitter: "@SilviaGrace19 @krystalball The silence of the so-called independent media is deafening, @theintercept, @ryangrim, @KyleKulinski, @tyt, @politico Where is #PeoplesConvention coverage?" / Twitter

One of the only news outlets to cover this convention:
More Than 400,000 Tune In to 'People's Convention'; Overwhelmingly Vote to Form New Party | Independent Voter News

Speakers at The People’s Convention included former Bernie 2020 Co-Chair Sen. Nina Turner and Harvard Professor Dr. Cornel West, who MPP says electrified the crowd as they decried what Turner called a “racist, bigoted system” that disenfranchises and oppresses Blacks, the working poor, and the increasing rates of near-poor.

...
The People’s Convention also featured former Democratic presidential candidate Marianne Williamson, UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador Danny Glover, former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Chris Hedges, Amped Up host Ryan Knight, and political commentator Jimmy Dore.

...
MPP is now working on organizing local hubs around the country that the groups says “will form the building blocks of state parties and get ballot access.” The People’s Party, MPP adds, will run for Congress in 2022 and president in 2024.

That's actually sensible, but it remains to be seen how well MPP follows up on that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

'DemExit': virtual convention aims to create US leftwing alternative | US news | The Guardian

Obviously another false flag operation.

 

[Emily Lake]

I don't know about screwed, exactly... but I do think there was a missed opportunity there. I actually think there was some short-sightedness from the Democratic Party by focusing on it from a purely party perspective.

In 2016, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have voted for him rather than third party. For this year, if Bernie had won out over Biden, I'd have no hesitation voting for him. As it stands... I'm probably going to vote third party again. I know a LOT of people who feel the same way I do, but most of them aren't registered Democrats, and in a lot of states, you can't vote in the primaries unless you're registered for that party. I think the Dems missed out on a lot of independent support that I think Bernie could have garnered.

Even if I think some of his plans are too extreme and wouldn't work out, I respected Bernie, and I believe that he actually wanted to support the people, and wasn't in it for himself.

With respect, I doubt that anyone who would even consider voting third party in 2020, helping Trump, would not be reachable by any nominal democrat. Secondly, there's no way we can ignore the popular vote that went with Biden (who was majority non white vote) for the white guy with fewer votes and delegates. That would absolutely destroy the democratic party.

My vote will neither help nor harm either party. My state's a done deal. If I lived somewhere that was going to be a close race, I would vote for Biden. But as it is, Trump will win my state no matter what I do.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I don't know about screwed, exactly... but I do think there was a missed opportunity there. I actually think there was some short-sightedness from the Democratic Party by focusing on it from a purely party perspective.

In 2016, if Bernie had won the nomination, I would have voted for him rather than third party. For this year, if Bernie had won out over Biden, I'd have no hesitation voting for him. As it stands... I'm probably going to vote third party again. I know a LOT of people who feel the same way I do, but most of them aren't registered Democrats, and in a lot of states, you can't vote in the primaries unless you're registered for that party. I think the Dems missed out on a lot of independent support that I think Bernie could have garnered.

Even if I think some of his plans are too extreme and wouldn't work out, I respected Bernie, and I believe that he actually wanted to support the people, and wasn't in it for himself.

With respect, I doubt that anyone who would even consider voting third party in 2020, helping Trump, would not be reachable by any nominal democrat. Secondly, there's no way we can ignore the popular vote that went with Biden (who was majority non white vote) for the white guy with fewer votes and delegates. That would absolutely destroy the democratic party.

My vote will neither help nor harm either party. My state's a done deal. If I lived somewhere that was going to be a close race, I would vote for Biden. But as it is, Trump will win my state no matter what I do.

I think that a lot of people assumed the same in 2016. Your vote probably will go Trump. But I just feel that we need to make sure that every vote counts this election. I think that we need to send a message and beat Trump with the largest possible margin.

 

[Worldtraveller]

My vote will neither help nor harm either party. My state's a done deal. If I lived somewhere that was going to be a close race, I would vote for Biden. But as it is, Trump will win my state no matter what I do.

I think that a lot of people assumed the same in 2016. Your vote probably will go Trump. But I just feel that we need to make sure that every vote counts this election. I think that we need to send a message and beat Trump with the largest possible margin.

The fact that Emily lives in AZ, and doesn't realize, or pretends not to know, that it may actually be a swing state this election, makes it sound like she's already starting to make excuses.

Plausible deniability and all that.

 

[Harry Bosch]

My vote will neither help nor harm either party. My state's a done deal. If I lived somewhere that was going to be a close race, I would vote for Biden. But as it is, Trump will win my state no matter what I do.

I think that a lot of people assumed the same in 2016. Your vote probably will go Trump. But I just feel that we need to make sure that every vote counts this election. I think that we need to send a message and beat Trump with the largest possible margin.

The fact that Emily lives in AZ, and doesn't realize, or pretends not to know, that it may actually be a swing state this election, makes it sound like she's already starting to make excuses.

Plausible deniability and all that.

Oh yea, Arizona is definitely in play.

 

[Emily Lake]

My vote will neither help nor harm either party. My state's a done deal. If I lived somewhere that was going to be a close race, I would vote for Biden. But as it is, Trump will win my state no matter what I do.

I think that a lot of people assumed the same in 2016. Your vote probably will go Trump. But I just feel that we need to make sure that every vote counts this election. I think that we need to send a message and beat Trump with the largest possible margin.

My vote won't go to Trump, I don't know why you're assuming that.

And my 3rd party vote in 2016 had absolutely zero impact on WA's EC count going to Clinton.