Aboriginal Civil Disobedience

[Metaphor]

I mean, what would move the church to do anything about its long history of abusing and even killing children?

I don't know. But, I don't think you can wring a sincere apology from someone by burning their house down.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Take the time to walk a mile in their moccasins.

Gladly, if I also get to receive all the casino moneys as well as other benefits and preferential treatment Indians receive today.
I mean, all that is worth walking a mile in some sandals.

Okay, go for it. Live up that 25% poverty rate.

While the Church's conduct is atrocious I don't see how simply being silent about it now warrants burning down churches. (Now, if the problem were ongoing that would be another matter.)

The OP states that these churches are on indigenbous land. I feel that removing symbols of the trauma is probably a healthy reaction.

It is removing a tumor, no less.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Burning a few churches isn't going to change anything.

No, it won't. Nor would burning the Vatican down. The Catholic Church is the nation's oldest bureaucracy and moves with a slightly faster pace than a glacier. As such, the Catholic Church to me is the perfect example of an entity that needs to be broken up into Baby Churches. The evil they concocted to save face with the repeated molestation of children across the globe and the recent uncoverings of the mass graves that were suspected of existing is proof that they can't function as a viable institution. The worst part about the mass indigenous graves is the utter lack of shock that they exist.

No harm should come to anyone, but those churches are disease where they stand near them. The irony of Catholic Churches still requiring confessions to be told to them, yet another strand of power control. Who does the Catholic Church confess to? I mean other than the authorities?

 

[Rhea]

I feel that removing symbols of the trauma is probably a healthy reaction.

Through arson?

I had an old barn on my land that I didn’t want any more. I burned it down. Problem?

In my town, yiu just call the fire department and say, I’m going to burn down this barn that’s bothering me, we’re lighting it off at 6:00pm. We had friends over. It burned for 3 days (it was a big barn)

Sounds like these indigenous folks are doing the same. There’s a church on their land that isn’t serving the purpose.

 

[J842P]

Burning a few churches isn't going to change anything.

No, it won't. Nor would burning the Vatican down. The Catholic Church is the nation's oldest bureaucracy and moves with a slightly faster pace than a glacier. As such, the Catholic Church to me is the perfect example of an entity that needs to be broken up into Baby Churches. The evil they concocted to save face with the repeated molestation of children across the globe and the recent uncoverings of the mass graves that were suspected of existing is proof that they can't function as a viable institution. The worst part about the mass indigenous graves is the utter lack of shock that they exist.

No harm should come to anyone, but those churches are disease where they stand near them. The irony of Catholic Churches still requiring confessions to be told to them, yet another strand of power control. Who does the Catholic Church confess to? I mean other than the authorities?

Yeah, I mean, small churches do this as well.

 

[TomC]

I had an old barn on my land that I didn’t want any more. I burned it down. Problem?

In my town, yiu just call the fire department and say, I’m going to burn down this barn that’s bothering me, we’re lighting it off at 6:00pm. We had friends over. It burned for 3 days (it was a big barn)

How unfortunate.

Old weathered wood is quite valuable to the right people. I know a bunch of them in the art and framing world. We aren't interested in structural strength, we're interested in the looks and patina. You might have both kept a few tons of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and gotten a check.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

I recall a thread somewhere where I said the destruction of property is wrong no matter who does it or why. I need to add this as an exception.

I mean, what would move the church to do anything about its long history of abusing and even killing children?

I don't know. But, I don't think you can wring a sincere apology from someone by burning their house down.

Something tells me the people who burned the church down don't care for an apology.

 

[Emily Lake]

As a very general comment... I really don't understand the rationalization and justification for current-day, extra-judicial, violent, retaliation against current-day entities... for wrongs done to one's ancestors by that entity's ancestors.

 

[Gospel]

As a very general comment... I really don't understand the rationalization and justification for current-day, extra-judicial, violent, retaliation against current-day entities... for wrongs done to one's ancestors by that entity's ancestors.

So you see no connection between the entity (in this case the Church) & the people who committed those wrongs using the entity but you do somehow manage to see a connection between the fire and the people who started it. Interesting.

 

[TomC]

As a very general comment... I really don't understand the rationalization and justification for current-day, extra-judicial, violent, retaliation against current-day entities... for wrongs done to one's ancestors by that entity's ancestors.

So you see no connection between the entity (in this case the Church) & the people who committed those wrongs using the entity but you do somehow manage to see a connection between the fire and the people who started it. Interesting.

I don't see that distinction at all difficult to make. Individuals are responsible for their own actions, not for those of their ancestors or people with the same skin color.

Tom

 

[Gospel]

As a very general comment... I really don't understand the rationalization and justification for current-day, extra-judicial, violent, retaliation against current-day entities... for wrongs done to one's ancestors by that entity's ancestors.

So you see no connection between the entity (in this case the Church) & the people who committed those wrongs using the entity but you do somehow manage to see a connection between the fire and the people who started it. Interesting.

I don't see that distinction at all difficult to make. Individuals are responsible for their own actions, not for those of their ancestors or people with the same skin color.

Tom

The entity got burned not people.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I had an old barn on my land that I didn’t want any more. I burned it down. Problem?

In my town, yiu just call the fire department and say, I’m going to burn down this barn that’s bothering me, we’re lighting it off at 6:00pm. We had friends over. It burned for 3 days (it was a big barn)

How unfortunate.


Old weathered wood is quite valuable to the right people. I know a bunch of them in the art and framing world. We aren't interested in structural strength, we're interested in the looks and patina. You might have both kept a few tons of carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and gotten a check.
Tom

Reclaimed framing timbers, especially the old hand hewn ones with the markings from the broadaxe or adze used. Those are worth a buck or two.

 

[laughing dog]

As a very general comment... I really don't understand the rationalization and justification for current-day, extra-judicial, violent, retaliation against current-day entities... for wrongs done to one's ancestors by that entity's ancestors.

I don't see any justification - just an understandable lack of outrage.

 

[Gospel]

I believe an argument can be made that I justified it in this thread.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As a very general comment... I really don't understand the rationalization and justification for current-day, extra-judicial, violent, retaliation against current-day entities... for wrongs done to one's ancestors by that entity's ancestors.

They murdered children. They stole them from their families and through neglect and abuse they caused the deaths of tens of thousands of aboriginal children... and when a pair of unmarked mass graves finds an estimate 1000 children and it is followed up by utter silence... there will be rage. It is known more graves will be found. Cementing pretty much an evil legacy, which the Church continues to fail to reconcile. And their silence is deafening.

The Catholic Churches on aboriginal land are tumors. The only reason for them to remain would be as reminders of the evils. These people are suffering from the direct neglect of the Catholic Church today, so to pass this off as some sort of, 'well it was only back in the day' is wholly disingenuous.

 

[Metaphor]

I recall a thread somewhere where I said the destruction of property is wrong no matter who does it or why. I need to add this as an exception.

I mean, what would move the church to do anything about its long history of abusing and even killing children?

I don't know. But, I don't think you can wring a sincere apology from someone by burning their house down.

Something tells me the people who burned the church down don't care for an apology.

I don't think so either, but Jimmy Higgins opened the thread talking about the church's silence being a suitable reason for vengeance.

 

[TomC]

The OP doesn't include a link, so I'll ask.

Were these houses of worship, or abandoned symbols of an ugly past?

If people were going there to do their thing, whatever I might think about that, it's violent vandalism. If the buildings were empty symbols of the bad old days, that's completely different.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While the Church's conduct is atrocious I don't see how simply being silent about it now warrants burning down churches. (Now, if the problem were ongoing that would be another matter.)

They murdered children either through neglect or abuse. That was the mission statement. The children were stolen from their families and murdered. Then buried like inconvenient refuse.

Some lucky ones were just tortured by systemic neglect and abuse.

The point is that this is a past action, not an ongoing action. It should be handled by the courts.

Burning them now is revenge, not resistance.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I feel that removing symbols of the trauma is probably a healthy reaction.

Through arson?

I had an old barn on my land that I didn’t want any more. I burned it down. Problem?

In my town, yiu just call the fire department and say, I’m going to burn down this barn that’s bothering me, we’re lighting it off at 6:00pm. We had friends over. It burned for 3 days (it was a big barn)

Sounds like these indigenous folks are doing the same. There’s a church on their land that isn’t serving the purpose.

1) You burned up materials that probably were valuable.

2) Quite illegal here.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

While the Church's conduct is atrocious I don't see how simply being silent about it now warrants burning down churches. (Now, if the problem were ongoing that would be another matter.)

They murdered children either through neglect or abuse. That was the mission statement. The children were stolen from their families and murdered. Then buried like inconvenient refuse.

Some lucky ones were just tortured by systemic neglect and abuse.

The point is that this is a past action, not an ongoing action. It should be handled by the courts.

Burning them now is revenge, not resistance.

I’d go with vengeance. If people are caught, they should be prosecuted. I hope they aren’t caught.

Also, another unmarked grave (~200 bodies) at another Aboriginal school was found.