Creationist Kent Hovind Sentenced To 30 Days In Jail For Domestic Violence

[WAB]

But, I think it's okay to attack people like Hovind. He's a hypocrite who uses religion to justify his nastiness.

I also think it's okay to criticize religion, without attacking the individual, although there are times when it's frustrating not to attack both. - SOHY.

Yes indeed, and I did write in the above (yeah I know it's really long! I just kept adding and adding to it after I posted...):

ME: Now, lest I forget to say this absolutely clearly: I am NOT suggesting that Hovind or people like him should NOT be criticized or held to account, or be submitted to public shame and ridicule. He should! He's an asshole. Anyone who would abuse their wife, or ANYONE who would abuse ANYONE, is an asshole, and ought to be publicly shamed and held accountable, free will or no, determinism or no. As another poster here has said from time to time, and I paraphrase him: Sometimes outright ridicule is the best and perhaps ONLY way to deal with such people. Even if we risk lumping others into such and such a category by inadvertent association, and though those others may be innocent, open ridicule of seemingly intractable and recalcitrant behavior is acceptable, if only because it stands a chance of causing less stubborn individuals to think more about what they think and do.

I just feel a strong need to reiterate and clarify every little thing I utter nowadays - to add a mountain of caveats and qualifiers. It's an insecurity I have. It will pass soon - as I am unwinding. Like that Bucky character I guess. Winding down from Tasmanian Devil back to Bored Lurking Chipmunk...

 

[steve_bank]

The answer of the why of religion is that it is one aspect of common human traits.

In the day Dead Heads followed the Grateful Dead around the world on tour. People quote their lyrics. Or Bob Dylan who was raised to prophet status even though he publicly distanced himself from it.

To me it is all the same thing. People need an individual and group identity of some kind. When I was a kid with my foamily situation putting on a Boy Scout uniform and going to meetings in retrospect was a very positive thing to me. It was where I got positive feedback.

It is more than OK to attack when warranted. Atheists to many Christians are the spwan of Satan and the root of evil in the world. It may not have been as bad as gays being in a closet fearful of being found oui, it is only fairly recently that atheists can speak publicly against religion.

Back in the 50s and 60s Reagan and the Freedom From Religion organization would be labeled communist and would be investigated by the govt. Communism and anthem were synonymous.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The answer of the why of religion is that it is one aspect of common human traits.

In the day Dead Heads followed the Grateful Dead around the world on tour. People quote their lyrics. Or Bob Dylan who was raised to prophet status even though he publicly distanced himself from it.

To me it is all the same thing. People need an individual and group identity of some kind. When I was a kid with my foamily situation putting on a Boy Scout uniform and going to meetings in retrospect was a very positive thing to me. It was where I got positive feedback.

It is more than OK to attack when warranted. Atheists to many Christians are the spwan of Satan and the root of evil in the world. It may not have been as bad as gays being in a closet fearful of being found oui, it is only fairly recently that atheists can speak publicly against religion.

Back in the 50s and 60s Reagan and the Freedom From Religion organization would be labeled communist and would be investigated by the govt. Communism and anthem were synonymous.

Agreed on all points - to include WAB and SoHy. But lets not forget the woo. I think it's the woo that distinguishes the behavior more than anything. Sure, the group identity, the tribe, is important and is the reason there are even any individuals to talk about. In reality, there are no "individuals" on this planet. If anything, the species is the individual and within that species there is variation. Variation doth not an individual make.

At some point in life, if a person is emotionally mature, rational, and has some appreciation and understanding of the scientific method, you will come to the realization that there are no invisible people or creatures with magic powers living in the sky. There isn't a magical component of yourself that is going to fly away and live forever in some magic place where everybody and everyone is happy, happy, happy all the live long day. Such thoughts are nothing more than one's childhood insecurity and love of fantasy doing the thinking. Maybe it's the need for a group identity that contributes to not making such a realization.

And all our brains are different. Superstition and cleverness were the trademarks of human behavior for tens of thousands of years. Those behaviors and their causes don't disappear overnight. Ken Hamm's aggressiveness, insecurity and need to dominate doesn't disappear simply because of society's laws either.

 

[steve_bank]

Wiccans, numerology and others. Modern forms of animism, the universe is 'alive; and conscious. Edgar Cayce and clairvoyance. Back in the 70s mu sster almost got drawn into that one and I talked her out of it.

Modern use of Gaia, the Earth is alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia

 

[WAB]

In reality, there are no "individuals" on this planet. - T.G.G.M

Rut roh.

Longish post coming, lessen I am nipped in the bud before I can submit it.

 

[WAB]

In reality, there are no "individuals" on this planet. - T.G.G.M

Rut roh.

Longish post coming, lessen I am nipped in the bud before I can submit it.

eh...on consideration, no long post will be forthcoming, or even fifthcoming.

The subject of what is an individual? is complex, and not really suited for any forum with "General" in its title.

I would start one, but nah...it would be abortive. I would suggest the Philosophy section, perhaps Miscellaneous, since it touches on all the branches.

One could place it in the Science section, but the topic of "individuals" will almost certainly spill over into ethics and moral principles, which is best covered by philosophy. Plus, there is no reason scientists cannot join in that section. As someone explained (I am paraphrasing, not quoting) in a link AntiChris provided for me, and which I already suggested many times, all scientists have to do philosophy; but alas, not all philosophers can do science.

And there is no real reason I can see, for this topic, to even inadvertently preclude someone who doesn't feel comfy in the science fora*








*WAB waves hand*

 

[southernhybrid]

But lets not forget the woo.

Sure, let's talk about the woo. The woo doesn't always mean community. I can give you two examples from people who I know. My next door neighbor despises Christianity, but she has adopted a wide variety of woo. For example, burning a white candle brings peace, sometimes spirits get in the house and do things, some herbs can be sprayed to wisk away the evil spirits, etc. She knows I'm a hard core atheist, so when she tells me these things, I roll my eyes and say, "whatever floats your boat, dear." She complains to me that she is lonely and doesn't have enough social support. She suffers from anxiety and depression. Maybe her woo gives her a little hope or something. Who knows?

My estranged sister left Christianity about 10 or 15 years ago, but she has similar woo as my neighbor. She even believes that her little dogs will cross the "rainbow bridge" and spend eternity with her when she dies. I have no idea how people can believe such things. I guess it gives them some type of comfort, as long as they don't think about how irrational those notions are. My feeling is that as long as the woo isn't harmful, I'm not going to criticize them.

For some reason, humans seem to be attracted to myths and woo. While I don't understand the need, I do understand that it's very common and it gives comfort to a lot of people.

 

[steve_bank]

Anybody want to buy a healing candle? Cheaper by the dozen.