Fake Dead Sea Scrolls Fragments

[Tharmas]

This article from CNN claims that all of the sixteen fragments of the Dead Sea scrolls that are on exhibit at the Museum of the Bible in Washington DC are fake. Previously it was thought that only five were fake.

The family that funded the purchase – the folks that own Hobby Lobby – declined to say how much they had spent on the fragments.

The description of how it was discovered that the forgeries were fake is sort of interesting; at least it was to me.

 

[steve_bank]

I am shocked, shocked I tell you that there is fakery in religious objects.

 

[skepticalbip]

Ahh, religious relics. Of the religious relics venerated by churches, there at least 30 nails that are claimed to have been the ones used in the crucifiction and enough splinters of the cross to build a house. And yet people still don't believe in miracles.

 

[James Brown]

Ahh, religious relics. Of the religious relics venerated by churches, there at least 30 nails that are claimed to have been the ones used in the crucifiction and enough splinters of the cross to build a house. And yet people still don't believe in miracles.

The joke that i heard was that in the Middle Ages there were enough splinters of the cross on display in churches to reassemble Noah's Ark.

 

[Politesse]

Ahh, religious relics. Of the religious relics venerated by churches, there at least 30 nails that are claimed to have been the ones used in the crucifiction and enough splinters of the cross to build a house. And yet people still don't believe in miracles.

If you're going to quote Erasmus, at least do it right - it was a boat he said you could build.

 

[DBT]

I can't quite make out whether these are forgeries of the originals that were found in the cave, or that the originals themselves are fake.

 

[Politesse]

I can't quite make out whether these are forgeries of the originals that were found in the cave, or that the originals themselves are fake.

These are forgeries of the originals, which they were hoodwinked into buying off the black market. There are missing fragments in circulation due to the uncontrolled situation of their original discovery, so it wasn't implausible that new fragments might turn up. But these aren't.

Most of the authentic fragments now known are kept, as they have long been, at the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I can't quite make out whether these are forgeries of the originals that were found in the cave, or that the originals themselves are fake.

These are forgeries of the originals, which they were hoodwinked into buying off the black market. There are missing fragments in circulation due to the uncontrolled situation of their original discovery, so it wasn't implausible that new fragments might turn up. But these aren't.

Most of the authentic fragments now known are kept, as they have long been, at the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem.

Hoodwinked? Maybe they were but they were certainly complicit in their being hoodwinked.

 

[Politesse]

I can't quite make out whether these are forgeries of the originals that were found in the cave, or that the originals themselves are fake.

These are forgeries of the originals, which they were hoodwinked into buying off the black market. There are missing fragments in circulation due to the uncontrolled situation of their original discovery, so it wasn't implausible that new fragments might turn up. But these aren't.

Most of the authentic fragments now known are kept, as they have long been, at the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem.

Hoodwinked? Maybe they were but they were certainly complicit in their being hoodwinked.

I hope you don't think I approve of buying black market antiquities in the first place. I assure you this is not the case.

 

[DBT]

If most of the fragments are in the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem, you'd think that it would be easy for a buyer to check authenticity by just checking with them.

 

[Politesse]

If most of the fragments are in the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem, you'd think that it would be easy for a buyer to check authenticity by just checking with them.

The problem is that many of the remaining fragments are unaccounted for. There have been several occasions in the past that new, previously unknown fragments have popped up. This is because the original assemblage was scattered and sold to multiple parties before scholars became aware of them. As for this party, I doubt they would have contacted anyone about the sale ahead of time, as they were fully aware that they were engaging in an illegal activity.

 

[steve_bank]

There is always a pedantic in the crowd.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If most of the fragments are in the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem, you'd think that it would be easy for a buyer to check authenticity by just checking with them.

The problem is that many of the remaining fragments are unaccounted for. There have been several occasions in the past that new, previously unknown fragments have popped up. This is because the original assemblage was scattered and sold to multiple parties before scholars became aware of them. As for this party, I doubt they would have contacted anyone about the sale ahead of time, as they were fully aware that they were engaging in an illegal activity.

If Hobby Lobby has its way we'll be able to reopen the ancient library of Alexandria with all the "authentic" fragments they obtain. It's kinda like all those nails and pieces of wood in the middle ages.

Even as a kid I wondered about those relics buried under the altar of our church that were from our patron saint. I always wondered why they weren't in a museum somewhere because they were obviously quite valuable, being the bones of one of Jesus's actual followers. Then I grew up and realized they were just fakes.

 

[skepticalbip]

There is always a pedantic in the crowd.

A person who nit picks is a pedant. "Pedantic" is an adjective.

 

[barbos]

There is always a pedantic in the crowd.

A person who nit picks is a pedant. "Pedantic" is an adjective.

You are such a pedantic!

 

[Bronzeage]

Somebody watched Raiders of the Lost Ark too many times.

The sale of fake religious relics is at least as old as the Crusades. There were thousands of people ready and willing to take gullible Europeans to places where Jesus preached and if they wanted a souvenir, that could be had for a price. It's was likely as a Brooklyn cab driver taking you to the spot where George Washington pitched his tent in the Revolutionary War and just happened to have Washington's shoelaces.

It's a familiar recipe for fraud. The buyer wants to believe it's real and the seller convinces the buyer that it's a limited time offer.

These are the same people who bought a pallet of 4000 year old cuneiform clay tablets and tried to smuggle them into the country by listing them as "hand made clay tile." They are accustomed to dealing with criminals and the criminals are accustomed to dealing with them.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Somebody watched Raiders of the Lost Ark too many times.

The sale of fake religious relics is at least as old as the Crusades. There were thousands of people ready and willing to take gullible Europeans to places where Jesus preached and if they wanted a souvenir, that could be had for a price. It's was likely as a Brooklyn cab driver taking you to the spot where George Washington pitched his tent in the Revolutionary War and just happened to have Washington's shoelaces.

It's a familiar recipe for fraud. The buyer wants to believe it's real and the seller convinces the buyer that it's a limited time offer.

These are the same people who bought a pallet of 4000 year old cuneiform clay tablets and tried to smuggle them into the country by listing them as "hand made clay tile." They are accustomed to dealing with criminals and the criminals are accustomed to dealing with them.

I recently watched one of those Forensic File Episodes from back in the '90s. A forger was selling early Mormon documents to buyers. To keep his secret he pipe-bombed a person who was on to his scam and was going to out him. But it took decades to uncover the fraud and every single document he'd ever sold was found to be a fake.

People love their woo.

 

[Bronzeage]

Somebody watched Raiders of the Lost Ark too many times.

The sale of fake religious relics is at least as old as the Crusades. There were thousands of people ready and willing to take gullible Europeans to places where Jesus preached and if they wanted a souvenir, that could be had for a price. It's was likely as a Brooklyn cab driver taking you to the spot where George Washington pitched his tent in the Revolutionary War and just happened to have Washington's shoelaces.

It's a familiar recipe for fraud. The buyer wants to believe it's real and the seller convinces the buyer that it's a limited time offer.

These are the same people who bought a pallet of 4000 year old cuneiform clay tablets and tried to smuggle them into the country by listing them as "hand made clay tile." They are accustomed to dealing with criminals and the criminals are accustomed to dealing with them.

I recently watched one of those Forensic File Episodes from back in the '90s. A forger was selling early Mormon documents to buyers. To keep his secret he pipe-bombed a person who was on to his scam and was going to out him. But it took decades to uncover the fraud and every single document he'd ever sold was found to be a fake.

People love their woo.

The Hoffman affair had an unexpected twist. He produced documents which Church leaders wanted to possess in order to keep them from being known to the public. Specifically, a letter which could be interpreted to say that Joseph Smith had used sorcery in his dealings with Moroni. Church leaders quickly came up with interpretations consistent with Mormon scripture.

This parallels an issue with the Dead Sea scrolls. In the early days, there was great apprehension the scrolls might give a contemporary account of Jesus which conflicted with the accepted Gospels. As time went by and more material was surveyed, it became clear that Jesus was not mentioned by name, and very likely not even the most oblique reference. This caused just as much anxiety.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I just keep thinking of all those creationists claiming that all evolutionary theory is wrong because 'science' bought into the Piltdown Man forgery.

 

[skepticalbip]

There is always a pedantic in the crowd.

A person who nit picks is a pedant. "Pedantic" is an adjective.

You are such a pedantic asshole!

FIFY
Your sentence needed a predicate nominative.