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If Gods are Real, Where are They?

T

T.G.G. Moogly

Traditional Atheist
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The ancients didn't even know what the sun was, or the Moon. Their "planets" were just stars that wandered, they didn't know that these were bodies similar to Earth. So it's understandable that they thought about gods the same way, as things they didn't fully understand. Their gods lived in the sky, the firmament, or above, on mountaintops, in the oceans, rivers, forests, etc. There aren't any gods in any of those places, we know that.

So where are all those gods today? Are they still just "up in the sky?" Is that all? Are they just spooky and invisible?

Where are the gods today?
 
I think they keep moving farther into the universe as man's pesky snooping powers increase. They're a private bunch and they don't like being watched. I mean, look how they handled the Tower of Babel.
On earth, they're still around as the names of certain candy bars, days of the week, and some Mexican boys.
I assume they don't return Pat Robertson's calls.
 
Do you mean modern polytheists? For the most part, they still see the gods as dwelling in those same geographical spaces. You could physically climb Mt. Olympus in 500 BCE as easily as you can now, physical inaccessibility was never the only reason why sacred places were regarded as sacred.
 
I might point out that it's possible to both definitely "be real" and also not have an existence or presence or observability with the context of a subordinate universe.

That said, I have extreme doubts as to whether there is any such God(s) short of having an arbitrary width callback into GodSpace and GodTime.
 
I think gods are a way of depicting a world that's not devoid of mind. Apparently the ancient Greeks didn't have the same "in here" and "out there" duality that moderns have. So not everything that is alleged in today's world to happen "in the head" was registered as in the head.

You can see a blurring of the lines of inner and outer in Homer, when he describes a hero gone berserk and killing a lot of people heroically. Homer calls it a god fighting alongside the mortals. But if you're not being hyper-literal in the reading, it comes across that the god is a man who stands out from the other mortals for being apparently possessed by a supra-human energy. I think the same valuing of everything "bigger than what is normal for humans" as "the work of the gods" or "the gods" is basically what's happening in polytheism.

Wherever they saw suprahuman power and/or intention, it seemed human-like. And so you get anthropomorphic images of the inhuman powers in nature presented as "gods".
 
Politesse said:
Do you mean modern polytheists? For the most part, they still see the gods as dwelling in those same geographical spaces. You could physically climb Mt. Olympus in 500 BCE as easily as you can now, physical inaccessibility was never the only reason why sacred places were regarded as sacred.
Click to expand...

Maybe it was climbed but there is no record. Attempts were made in the 1800s but the first successful, recorded climb occurred in 1913. So I think it is entirely possible that it was never summitted in ancient times. I've personally been much higher many times. From what I've read it is climbed by thousands every year but most don't go to the summit where Zeus's throne was.
 
I'm not sure if this is an old idea though it is at least as old as Futurama....

It is from the A God without compelling evidence? thread in this forum....

A little essay about it:

If we are in a simulation there would be one or more intelligent forces that created it and they (or other beings) might intervene from time to time.

Sometimes they might like players to be aware that they are intervening but not want this to be obvious so that the connection is more mysterious. The intelligent force could be playing “hide and seek” with the players.

Like “God” in a Futurama episode says, "When you [God] do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all”.
I think the intelligent force only intervenes in a way that skeptics could explain as involving coincidence, delusion, hallucinations, or fraud.

Though there are hints that our world could involve a simulation and an intervening intelligence, modern supernatural skeptics feel justified in their belief that the world is purely mechanistic and physical.

This way a belief in paranormal intervention is more about personal faith and reasoning rather than involving any type of scientific consensus. Though it remains possible that there can be paranormal intervention in a simulation.

Then there is the possibility that the Bible was guided by an intelligent force. It could be a test of the character of its readers - from the all-or-nothing thinking of fundamentalists and many atheists, to people who believe much of the Bible isn't historical while still believing in some kind of God.
Click to expand...

To answer the OP - the "gods" would have an existence outside of our possible simulation but could also intervene possibly by controlling people (see Morty playing "Roy" though he forgets his true identity)
 
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excreationist said:
...
To answer the OP - the "gods" would have an existence outside of our possible simulation but could also intervene possibly by controlling people
...
Click to expand...
hmm, puzzling
is the function of any simulation to gain insight into the real system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation
...
Simulation is also used when the real system cannot be engaged, because it may not be accessible, or it may be dangerous or unacceptable to engage, or it is being designed but not yet built, or it may simply not exist
....
Click to expand...
 
none said:
excreationist said:
...
To answer the OP - the "gods" would have an existence outside of our possible simulation but could also intervene possibly by controlling people
...
Click to expand...
hmm, puzzling
is the function of any simulation to gain insight into the real system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation
...
Simulation is also used when the real system cannot be engaged, because it may not be accessible, or it may be dangerous or unacceptable to engage, or it is being designed but not yet built, or it may simply not exist
....
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Well gaining insight is the case in the "Hang the DJ" episode in Black Mirror where a couple are simulated 1000 times to test for compatibility.... but I think possible simulations like our world would mainly be for entertainment and personal growth.
Morty playing "Roy" where he forgets his identity is similar to this talk by Alan Watts:

 
excreationist said:
none said:
hmm, puzzling
is the function of any simulation to gain insight into the real system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation
Click to expand...
Well gaining insight is the case in the "Hang the DJ" episode in Black Mirror where a couple are simulated 1000 times to test for compatibility.... but I think possible simulations like our world would mainly be for entertainment and personal growth.
Morty playing "Roy" where he forgets his identity is similar to this talk by Alan Watts:

Click to expand...

unfortunately our not... I'm not interested in your reply at this time.
 
none said:
unfortunately our not... I'm not interested in your reply at this time.
Click to expand...
Sorry I didn't understand.... did you mean "unfortunately your not" in a simulation? Or "unfortunately or not"?
 
They don't come to Earth because they're terrified of us. They've seen us become more powerful than they and they fear us.

Eldarion Lathria
 
Eldarion Lathria said:
They don't come to Earth because they're terrified of us. They've seen us become more powerful than they and they fear us.
Click to expand...

Also, we tend to steal their apples, even when they've clearly told us that these are their apples and they don't want us taking them. There was someone at my old office who used to do that with yogurt and it was really annoying. I can understand why they wouldn't want to be involved with us when we do things like that.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Eldarion Lathria said:
They don't come to Earth because they're terrified of us. They've seen us become more powerful than they and they fear us.
Click to expand...

Also, we tend to steal their apples, even when they've clearly told us that these are their apples and they don't want us taking them. There was someone at my old office who used to do that with yogurt and it was really annoying. I can understand why they wouldn't want to be involved with us when we do things like that.
Click to expand...

Obviously their relationship with us is identical to our relationship with them. In their moments of terror they pray to us or ask our forgiveness.

Are their any religions that practice this kind of thinking?

Maybe in their version of an afterlife their hell is to be condemned to live as humans. That would explain a lot.
 
Again, I will point to the situation wherein we will, at some point, create whole universes of thinking people, assuming we have not already.

When we step into those worlds, there may be billions of people and zero, one, and many/infinity are the general access limits. Infinity is quite a lot, and we don't see that, so my money is in the neighborhood of zero to one, and when this human who would be god walks in a world, he walks as flesh and blood, barely different from anyone else in it.

Maybe they're keeping a low profile. Most of our stories about powerful beings coming to the world end badly for the beings, or badly for the world, and sometimes both. To that end it seems wise to take the "head down" route.
 
As a naturalist, my god is indeed real.

What is the point of having an imaginary one?

Your god is real as well, if you can follow the thinking that follows, about us all.

I have yet to proof this but what the hell.

----------

Believer or not, your epitome of desire, is to be named the Greatest I am.

Religions are tribes. So are the various non-believing tribes.

Tribal leaders and shaman are the ones to be emulated by all of us so that we might become better than they are and depose them.

It’s like Jesus ascending and retiring God by taking the righthand judges’ seat. Jesus, in effect; deposed his father. As things should be in a hierarchical progressive species like ours.

Leaders and shaman are the only ones who can claim being Greatest I am at any given point in time.

Religiously speaking, we want to and are encouraged by scriptures to try to emulate whatever we think of as God. God’s best-known speaker is analogically, Greatest I am.

Individually speaking, even you were born, instinctively speaking; thinking you were the fittest of your genetic line. In that sense, your ultimate raison d'être and dream, even if you can come up with some other analogy in religious terms; is you want to be known as the greatest at something, including God.

Upon birth, your first thought was, I am.

Your second thought was, where is the Greatest I am so that I might be his friend, and depose him with better justice?

Who are the fittest you are now to compete with, to prove your fitness, is your next enlightenment.

This is all of us seeking idols to emulate and depose the current icon in our chosen competitions.

Jesus asks us to idolize ourselves, loosely of course, by asking us in scriptures, “have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?”

I have not given up my spiritual, religious, or political efforts to be seen as the greatest at something.

I am not Jesus, but I am curious. Have you given up on your religious birth rite to be a god?

That would disappoint Jesus.

Have you given up your genetic birth rite to be the fittest and excel in some field?

That would disappoint your ancestors. They came from nature and nature demonstrably creates for the best possible end.

I see it as a shame when someone stops competing to be the greatest at something.

Regards
DL
 
Are you going to just post this same glop in every thread?
It's nonsense.
 
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