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Increasing acceptance of biological evolution in the US

By true, I mean inspired by God.

Why would you think that 'true' was the best label, then?
The bible does say that if a prophet says something that is false, it's because that's what God told the prophet. So, 'inspired by God' could still be false.
As Olson Johnson said, it may be authentic, but could still be authentic frontier gibberish.
 
Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki lists numerous dating methods, though many of them I call secondary methods, because they require calibration with other methods. Those that don't I call primary ones, and I'll mainly focus on those.

Dendrochronology is chronology by counting tree rings. One has to look at several trees, and look for correlations in how their ring thicknesses vary, but by doing so, it's been possible to go back as far as 10,500 years.

It's been used to calibrate radiocarbon dating, something made secondary by variations in atmospheric C-14.

Ice layering goes back 145,000 years.

Milankovitch astronomical cycles leave their imprint in the geological record, and they have been used to improve the dating of the last 20+ million years. Such cycles have to be checked against other methods, so this method is not quite primary in practice.

Radiometric dating, with uranium, thorium, potassium, etc. goes back some 4.6 billion years, in the oldest datable material in the Solar System: meteorites. It uses radioactive decay, something which happens by three sets of ways, with a different mechanism for each:
  • Disintegration by quantum tunneling: alpha decay (He4), spontaneous fission
  • Weak interaction: beta decay (e+, e-), electron capture
  • Electromagnetic: gamma decay (photon emission)
The first two produce nuclides different from the original ones, and some of their half-lives are long enough for radiometric dating. Variation in fundamental constants would produce relative variations in decay rates, and no such variations have been observed.

Stratigraphic correlation and sequencing is a secondary method for absolute ages, but a primary method for relative ages. It uses magnetic reversals, fossils, and other such evidence, and with fossils, geologists found the right order decades before radiometric dating became practical. Fossils are used as markers of rocks, and "stage of evolution" is *not* used.

Stellar structure and evolution calculations can be applied to the Sun, with helioseismology providing clues on the Sun's interior. One finds from these calculations an age of 4.6 billion years, very close to the ages of meteorites found with radiometric dating.

Looking outside the Solar System, one finds that the oldest stars in our Galaxy are about 13 billion years old, also from stellar-evolution calculations, and that the Universe as a whole is about 13.7 billion years old, from how fast distant galaxies are moving away from us.
 
Titled link: What You Aren't Being Told About Astronomy - Vol. I (Our Created Solar System) - YouTube
Description:
"Our Created Solar System” reveals what you aren't being told by the secular media.

In this video, you'll tour our magnificent Solar System. You'll visit each planet through more than 200 beautiful photographs and graphics from NASA and other sources. You will see how each planet uniquely testifies of its Creator.

Your host is Spike Psarris, a former engineer in the U.S. military space program. He entered that program as an atheist and left it as a creationist and a Christian.

Aesthete said:
By true, I mean inspired by God. Some people who subscribe to theistic evolution believe in the inspiration of the Bible, but they typically say that things like the creation account, the flood, and the tower of Babel are not literal; however, this seems like a difficult position to defend, from the standpoint of someone who believes in the inspiration of the Bible.
So the Bible is something that its authors were "inspired" to write?
And it's for that reason that I can't fathom why anyone would cling to that position, when nowadays there is so much information available to show why the young earth position is intellectually sound.
What *direct* evidence do you have that the Universe is only around 6,000 years old?
 

I don't have time to watch and comment on the whole thing, but I watched the first 10 minutes and I have two comments already.

1) The speaker is an engineer not an astronomer, so he does not have the best qualifications for critiquing the current understanding of the science.

2) The first examinable claim he makes is that dust can't clump together to form planetesimals. He supports this assertion by simply pointing to some scientists stating that they don't quite yet understand how this would happen. I point out that the video is dated 2017, which is already almost five years old, and the quotes he uses are even older. One is from a book published in 1988, and another from a paper published in 2007. The field has advanced since these citations and even since his video. For example, here's a link to a paper discussing how the process is possible:

"Electrical charging overcomes the bouncing barrier in planet formation" by Steinpilzm et al., Nature Physics volume 16, pages 225–229 (2020)

Also, there's been some very nice imaging done by the Atacama Large Millimeter Array (ALMA) that shows protoplanetary disks in the midst of formation. The quality of images that ALMA has taken are spectacular and only just started being observed at the time of this video. See, for example: https://www.almaobservatory.org/en/...-unprecedented-views-of-the-birth-of-planets/

I think that ten minutes (plus the time to write this response) is enough to spend on this, because my guess is that the rest of the video continues to show either a lack of understanding (or misunderstanding) of the fields of astronomy, planetary science, and geology, or out-of-date information, and I just don't have the time to research and respond to every claim he would make.

I can understand how this video and his presentation might be compelling to someone unfamiliar with the science, and someone already wanting to believe in a Biblical account of formation, and someone who doesn't like to simply believe what they are simply told (except perhaps for what the Bible tells them). I used to verbally spar with Flat Earthers on Facebook, but gave up on that for the sake of my mental well-being. They represent the extreme in the uneducated, anti-science mindset. Young Earthers are on firmer ground, but that's not really much of a comparison.

But there's a reason why there have been thousands of good, honest people studying science, performing science, sharing their results, writing papers, making observations, detailing the mathematics and physics to support their ideas, critiquing each other's ideas, etc. And there are reasons why they have come to the conclusions they have and are presenting their results in textbooks and classes. Yes, there are still areas to be developed and gaps in understanding, but there has been progress in pushing out the boundary of our understanding, even as that boundary (the 'cutting edge' of science) is a turbulent one.

I appreciate that you watched at least that much. Regarding the "old" sources, I am quite sure these are still modern and valid in the field of astronomy. Granted, science does change, but that is driven by empirical observations (e.g., space probes - data from which have in many cases defied evolutionary expectations). As we cannot observe the formation of the solar system, only theoretical models are possible. As for this 2020 paper, the idea seems rather far-fetched. It's also a rather implicit admission that planetary formation cannot proceed according to the known laws of physics.

Well, let’s look at some of them lines of evidence. I’m not going to do all of them, for the sake of brevity. But I can tell you there are more proofs than just the ones I’ll list.

The sun: The sun rotates about 200 times too slowly for the nebular model to be true. It has more than 99% of the mass of the solar system yet only about 0.3% of the total angular momentum of the solar system. If the solar system condensed from a swirling ball of dust and gas, this violates the law of conservation of angular momentum. Of course, this is no problem for creationists. (This is not mentioned in that particular video, but he has covered it in other videos).

Mercury: Mercury cannot be as dense as it has been observed to be according to the secular model. Due to the inconsistencies between the theoretical model and the empirical observations, it is now theorized by secular scientists that Mercury experienced a catastrophic collision that stripped away all the lesser-density materials. There’s no evidence for this--so a recusing device is posited to reconcile Mercury with the evolutionary model. Moreover, Mercury has a magnetic field, which it should not have if it were billions of years old. The magnetic field decays too fast. Earth’s does too, so evolutionists have posited a dynamo effect that causes it. This is what I called a rescuing device, because if we extrapolate from actual measurements of the earth’s magnetic field, the earth would be liquefied a mere 20k years ago. But I digress. While a dynamo effect was invented to explain the earth’s magnetic field, it doesn’t work for Mercury. A dynamo effect requires a molten core. However, Mercury cannot have a molten core if it were billions of years old, as it would have frozen already.

Earth: According to the nebular model, the earth is too close to the sun for water to have condensed. For this reason, secular scientists theorize that the earth acquired it water via comet strikes. Besides the lack of evidence of this hypothesis, it’s been observed that most comets have the wrong ratio of deuterium to water for this to be plausible. So for the earth, whole surface is mostly covered in water, the secular model fails to explain how there is so much water here.

Earth’s moon: The moon is receding from the earth too quickly; extrapolated backwards and it is in contact with the earth within the timeframe of earth’s supposed age.

Gas giants: Jupiter and Saturn cannot have formed in their respective locations according to the secular models. Also, Saturn's rings are far too clean to be billions of years old.

Io: Io's extensive volcanic activity contradicts the old solar system view, as any such activity would have ceased a long time ago as the moon cooled off.

Ganymede: same as Mercury, having a magnetic field, for which a dynamo effect cannot be used an explanation, because it shouldn’t have a liquid core if it were billions of years old.

Titan: secular scientists were quite surprised not to find massive seas of liquid ethane, which it should have as the methane in its atmosphere is broken down. Moreover, the methane is irreversibly lost and, with no way to replenish it, it looks to conform to a biblical age rather than a secular one.

Enceladus: With erupting geysers and observed rates of the emission of heat far above evolutionary expectations, it also defies an age of billions of years, by which time it too would have been old, cold, and dead.

Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki lists numerous dating methods, though many of them I call secondary methods, because they require calibration with other methods. Those that don't I call primary ones, and I'll mainly focus on those.

Dendrochronology is chronology by counting tree rings. One has to look at several trees, and look for correlations in how their ring thicknesses vary, but by doing so, it's been possible to go back as far as 10,500 years.

It's been used to calibrate radiocarbon dating, something made secondary by variations in atmospheric C-14.

Ice layering goes back 145,000 years.

Milankovitch astronomical cycles leave their imprint in the geological record, and they have been used to improve the dating of the last 20+ million years. Such cycles have to be checked against other methods, so this method is not quite primary in practice.

Radiometric dating, with uranium, thorium, potassium, etc. goes back some 4.6 billion years, in the oldest datable material in the Solar System: meteorites. It uses radioactive decay, something which happens by three sets of ways, with a different mechanism for each:
  • Disintegration by quantum tunneling: alpha decay (He4), spontaneous fission
  • Weak interaction: beta decay (e+, e-), electron capture
  • Electromagnetic: gamma decay (photon emission)
The first two produce nuclides different from the original ones, and some of their half-lives are long enough for radiometric dating. Variation in fundamental constants would produce relative variations in decay rates, and no such variations have been observed.

Stratigraphic correlation and sequencing is a secondary method for absolute ages, but a primary method for relative ages. It uses magnetic reversals, fossils, and other such evidence, and with fossils, geologists found the right order decades before radiometric dating became practical. Fossils are used as markers of rocks, and "stage of evolution" is *not* used.

Stellar structure and evolution calculations can be applied to the Sun, with helioseismology providing clues on the Sun's interior. One finds from these calculations an age of 4.6 billion years, very close to the ages of meteorites found with radiometric dating.

Looking outside the Solar System, one finds that the oldest stars in our Galaxy are about 13 billion years old, also from stellar-evolution calculations, and that the Universe as a whole is about 13.7 billion years old, from how fast distant galaxies are moving away from us.

Re the rationalwiki article, so let's look at one the arguments here: ice layering. According to your link, it is considered a reliable method, as only one layer will form each year. Yet, consider the case of an American warplane that crashed in Greenland in 1942. In 1990, it was found 80m deep. In 48 years, there were many hundreds of ice rings that had formed. These are not "annual rings."

Radioactive dating is commonly propounded as evidence for a young earth. Yet carbon-14 is found in coal, oil, diamonds - which argues against an old age. Contamination is not a reliable explanation, as that has been addressed and ruled out. And other methods, like potassium-argon dating, have been used to produce ages of hundreds of thousands and even millions of years for volcanic eruptions whose timing is known, like 2.8 million years for Mount St Helens in 1986.

There's also quite a problem when you look at the issue of geology, and assume uniformitarian processes. Catastrophic processes are a better explanation, and the global flood explains the rapid deposition of layers. It also explains fossilization, as this occurs by rapid burial, such as what occurred during the flood.
 
There’s a lot to address here and I won’t go into it all. I will give just one example of a misunderstanding. Io’s volcanic activity is caused by tidal stresses not residual heat, so your assertion that it would have cooled by now is not relevant.

Also, you can’t just claim a paper as “far-fetched”. If you have a problem with the content of the paper then you need to address the physics substantively.

If these assertions of yours are true then it should be easy to provide citations to articles that show the math and physics demonstrating them. That’s the proper way a physicist or astronomer can assess the veracity of the claim.

Please provide citations if you want to be taken seriously.
 
There’s a lot to address here and I won’t go into it all. I will give just one example of a misunderstanding. Io’s volcanic activity is caused by tidal stresses not residual heat, so your assertion that it would have cooled by now is not relevant.

Also, you can’t just claim a paper as “far-fetched”. If you have a problem with the content of the paper then you need to address the physics substantively.

If these assertions of yours are true then it should be easy to provide citations to articles that show the math and physics demonstrating them. That’s the proper way a physicist or astronomer can assess the veracity of the claim.

Please provide citations if you want to be taken seriously.
Regarding Io, tidal stresses cannot be responsible for its heat or volcanic activity. It’s a qualitative answer, but it doesn’t work quantitatively. And this explanation has other issues as well. https://creation.com/io-volcanoes
 
I appreciate that you watched at least that much. Regarding the "old" sources, I am quite sure these are still modern and valid in the field of astronomy. Granted, science does change, but that is driven by empirical observations (e.g., space probes - data from which have in many cases defied evolutionary expectations). As we cannot observe the formation of the solar system, only theoretical models are possible. As for this 2020 paper, the idea seems rather far-fetched. It's also a rather implicit admission that planetary formation cannot proceed according to the known laws of physics.

Well, let’s look at some of them lines of evidence. I’m not going to do all of them, for the sake of brevity. But I can tell you there are more proofs than just the ones I’ll list.

The sun: The sun rotates about 200 times too slowly for the nebular model to be true. It has more than 99% of the mass of the solar system yet only about 0.3% of the total angular momentum of the solar system. If the solar system condensed from a swirling ball of dust and gas, this violates the law of conservation of angular momentum. Of course, this is no problem for creationists. (This is not mentioned in that particular video, but he has covered it in other videos).

Mercury: Mercury cannot be as dense as it has been observed to be according to the secular model. Due to the inconsistencies between the theoretical model and the empirical observations, it is now theorized by secular scientists that Mercury experienced a catastrophic collision that stripped away all the lesser-density materials. There’s no evidence for this--so a recusing device is posited to reconcile Mercury with the evolutionary model. Moreover, Mercury has a magnetic field, which it should not have if it were billions of years old. The magnetic field decays too fast. Earth’s does too, so evolutionists have posited a dynamo effect that causes it. This is what I called a rescuing device, because if we extrapolate from actual measurements of the earth’s magnetic field, the earth would be liquefied a mere 20k years ago. But I digress. While a dynamo effect was invented to explain the earth’s magnetic field, it doesn’t work for Mercury. A dynamo effect requires a molten core. However, Mercury cannot have a molten core if it were billions of years old, as it would have frozen already.

Earth: According to the nebular model, the earth is too close to the sun for water to have condensed. For this reason, secular scientists theorize that the earth acquired it water via comet strikes. Besides the lack of evidence of this hypothesis, it’s been observed that most comets have the wrong ratio of deuterium to water for this to be plausible. So for the earth, whole surface is mostly covered in water, the secular model fails to explain how there is so much water here.

Earth’s moon: The moon is receding from the earth too quickly; extrapolated backwards and it is in contact with the earth within the timeframe of earth’s supposed age.

Gas giants: Jupiter and Saturn cannot have formed in their respective locations according to the secular models. Also, Saturn's rings are far too clean to be billions of years old.

Io: Io's extensive volcanic activity contradicts the old solar system view, as any such activity would have ceased a long time ago as the moon cooled off.

Ganymede: same as Mercury, having a magnetic field, for which a dynamo effect cannot be used an explanation, because it shouldn’t have a liquid core if it were billions of years old.

Titan: secular scientists were quite surprised not to find massive seas of liquid ethane, which it should have as the methane in its atmosphere is broken down. Moreover, the methane is irreversibly lost and, with no way to replenish it, it looks to conform to a biblical age rather than a secular one.

Enceladus: With erupting geysers and observed rates of the emission of heat far above evolutionary expectations, it also defies an age of billions of years, by which time it too would have been old, cold, and dead.

Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki lists numerous dating methods, though many of them I call secondary methods, because they require calibration with other methods. Those that don't I call primary ones, and I'll mainly focus on those.

Dendrochronology is chronology by counting tree rings. One has to look at several trees, and look for correlations in how their ring thicknesses vary, but by doing so, it's been possible to go back as far as 10,500 years.

It's been used to calibrate radiocarbon dating, something made secondary by variations in atmospheric C-14.

Ice layering goes back 145,000 years.

Milankovitch astronomical cycles leave their imprint in the geological record, and they have been used to improve the dating of the last 20+ million years. Such cycles have to be checked against other methods, so this method is not quite primary in practice.

Radiometric dating, with uranium, thorium, potassium, etc. goes back some 4.6 billion years, in the oldest datable material in the Solar System: meteorites. It uses radioactive decay, something which happens by three sets of ways, with a different mechanism for each:
  • Disintegration by quantum tunneling: alpha decay (He4), spontaneous fission
  • Weak interaction: beta decay (e+, e-), electron capture
  • Electromagnetic: gamma decay (photon emission)
The first two produce nuclides different from the original ones, and some of their half-lives are long enough for radiometric dating. Variation in fundamental constants would produce relative variations in decay rates, and no such variations have been observed.

Stratigraphic correlation and sequencing is a secondary method for absolute ages, but a primary method for relative ages. It uses magnetic reversals, fossils, and other such evidence, and with fossils, geologists found the right order decades before radiometric dating became practical. Fossils are used as markers of rocks, and "stage of evolution" is *not* used.

Stellar structure and evolution calculations can be applied to the Sun, with helioseismology providing clues on the Sun's interior. One finds from these calculations an age of 4.6 billion years, very close to the ages of meteorites found with radiometric dating.

Looking outside the Solar System, one finds that the oldest stars in our Galaxy are about 13 billion years old, also from stellar-evolution calculations, and that the Universe as a whole is about 13.7 billion years old, from how fast distant galaxies are moving away from us.

Re the rationalwiki article, so let's look at one the arguments here: ice layering. According to your link, it is considered a reliable method, as only one layer will form each year. Yet, consider the case of an American warplane that crashed in Greenland in 1942. In 1990, it was found 80m deep. In 48 years, there were many hundreds of ice rings that had formed. These are not "annual rings."

Radioactive dating is commonly propounded as evidence for a young earth. Yet carbon-14 is found in coal, oil, diamonds - which argues against an old age. Contamination is not a reliable explanation, as that has been addressed and ruled out. And other methods, like potassium-argon dating, have been used to produce ages of hundreds of thousands and even millions of years for volcanic eruptions whose timing is known, like 2.8 million years for Mount St Helens in 1986.

There's also quite a problem when you look at the issue of geology, and assume uniformitarian processes. Catastrophic processes are a better explanation, and the global flood explains the rapid deposition of layers. It also explains fossilization, as this occurs by rapid burial, such as what occurred during the flood.

It is not sufficient to assert that something would be impossible. You have to actually demonstrate it. Pick one or two claims from the list you put together and demonstrate, using the appropriate physics and mathematics, that it is indeed impossible.

If the universe was a few thousand years old, that would overturn everything we know about physics, geology, biology, and history, to name just a few disciplines. Our cell phones and GPS systems, to provide just one example, would not work, since they rely on general relativity to synchronize their clocks. And if GR is wrong, these phone designed using GR concepts could not possibly work. Yet my cellphone, and billions of cellphone just like it, continue to work fine. We continue to observe the CMB, and multiple, independent sources of measurement concur that the CMB is billions of years old. For these observations to be wrong, we must have miscalculated the speed of light, by about 6 orders of magnitude. Yet we have multiple independent sources of measurement that tell us that the speed of light is exactly what it is.

One thing I don't understand is why creationists don't publish their findings in peer reviewed science journals. You, and creationists like you, would gain instant fame and become worldwide celebrities overnight if you could demonstrate that everything we know about the universe is wrong. Yet creationists don't publish their work in science journals. Why is that? Because they are wrong. Talk is cheap. Show your work.
 
There’s a lot to address here and I won’t go into it all. I will give just one example of a misunderstanding. Io’s volcanic activity is caused by tidal stresses not residual heat, so your assertion that it would have cooled by now is not relevant.

Also, you can’t just claim a paper as “far-fetched”. If you have a problem with the content of the paper then you need to address the physics substantively.

If these assertions of yours are true then it should be easy to provide citations to articles that show the math and physics demonstrating them. That’s the proper way a physicist or astronomer can assess the veracity of the claim.

Please provide citations if you want to be taken seriously.
Regarding Io, tidal stresses cannot be responsible for its heat or volcanic activity. It’s a qualitative answer, but it doesn’t work quantitatively. And this explanation has other issues as well. https://creation.com/io-volcanoes

As I have time, I will attempt to make an honest assessment of this paper. At first glance I notice a few things of import:

1) This article is from a journal titled "Creation", which makes me worried that the authors and editors are not unbiased with respect to the scientific evidence.
2) The author is not a scientist, but a systems administrator.
3) The article presents no primary research, only critique of other research, and no *quantitative* critique at that.


Although I started my career in planetary science, thirty years ago, I moved on after a short time to astrophysics, so I am not as deeply knowledgeable on these subjects as I would like to be in order to adequately rebut what is in this article. I wish I felt comfortable enough to ask some of my planetary scientist colleagues about these specific claims. It could take some time for me personally to review this article because the papers it cites are not easily available. Without looking at the primary sources I cannot know if this article takes anything out of context or misconstrues any results, tactics typical for anti-mainstream critiques.

In the meantime, I would ask you to present what you think are the best *scientific* results *for* a young Earth. That is, not criticisms of the mainstream view of the old Earth, but actual scientific results that point to a roughly six-thousand year age of the Earth. I'd be curious to see what these are.
 
Your article states the following:

A Jet Propulsion Laboratory press release in June 2012 said that the pattern of heat “disposes of the generally-accepted model of internal heating.” Just this year, a NASA press release stated that the volcanic vents are “significantly displaced” by 30–60° from where tidal heating models say they should be.5

I note that the 2012 press release mentioned in the first sentence has no citation, so this quite strong statement that appears to be a direct quote cannot be substantiated and thus I ignore it.

I did find the second press release, and it pointed to an article by Hamilton et al. entitled "Spatial distribution of volcanoes on Io: Implications for tidal heating and magma ascent". I can only see the abstract, but they do indeed point out a significant "offset in volcano concentrations from predicted locations of maximum surface heat flux along the tidal axis." However, they also present multiple potential explanations for it that merit further research and observations.

That the current science cannot explain every specific detail of an observation is not a failing on the part of the science. This is how science works and as we explore outward in our knowledge, the edge between what we know and what we don't know isn't a sharp one. Furthermore, if there is a detail that cannot currently be explained within the mainstream model that does not immediately imply that another model is true.
 
In the meantime, I would ask you to present what you think are the best *scientific* results *for* a young Earth. That is, not criticisms of the mainstream view of the old Earth, but actual scientific results that point to a roughly six-thousand year age of the Earth.
Creationism doesn't work that way.
Without the accepted mainstream science, there is no creationism. Their 'science' is purely reactionary, pointing to holes, gaps, and failings in mainstream, and then saying, 'Tada! Therefore Goddidit!'

Note the examples provided here ALL require the mainstream science to be accepted as finished, and complete, so any problem is not an opportunity for further research, but the failing that discounts the entire industry.
 
Another thing that makes it difficult to rebut every claim against the mainstream is the effort it takes to look up these papers, read them, understand the results, find their citations within, find other, subsequent papers citing these that may expand or explain them and then gathering up all the results and typing up these posts.

For example, this Hamilton paper I mentioned gets cited multiple times since its publication back in 2013, and there are scientists attempting to explain their findings. I note that in one particular paper ("Tidal controls on the lithospheric thickness and topography of Io from magmatic segregation and volcanism modeling" by Spencer, Katz and Hewitt. Icarus 359, 2021), the following is said:

A number of works have sought to identify tidal dissipation from patterns from surface heat fluxes (Veeder et al., 2012), and volcanic activity (Rathbun et al, 2018), and volcano distributions (Ross et al., 1990; Kirchoff et all, 2011; Hamilton et al., 2013). The primary hindrance to these works is the poor polar coverage of observations, so whilst a number of these works favor an asthenosphere heating model (e.g., Ross et al. (1990); Kirchoff et al. (2011)), the general consensus is that more polar observations are needed to fully address this question (Rathbun et al., 2018; de Kleer et al., 2019). Furthermore, long-timescale, averaged heat fluxes are difficult to estimate, and it is unclear to what extent short-timescale observations of volcanic activity reflect the global dissipation structure. Tectonic features, which vary on much longer timescales, may provide a more robust link between surface observations and the distribution of tidal heating.

So, the point is that the result that Hamilton points to isn't necessarily a problem for the current paradigm indicating tidal heating of Io, but a limitation in the specific observations made with respect to their adequacy to explain the relationship between the models and the observations. The paper then goes on to discuss the modeling and expectations of how the lithospheric thickness relates to tidal heating and the observed vulcanism.

Having been a scientist for many years, this approach to this subject does not surprise me and appears to be standard for the cutting edge of the field. These scientists will continue to study the subject, obtain more data, and present more detailed models. This stuff isn't easy, and can take a career timescale to achieve the right knowledge and experience to fully address the subject. I do not put much credence in a former systems administrator to have achieved this, compared to the scientists who are actively performing the research.
 
In the meantime, I would ask you to present what you think are the best *scientific* results *for* a young Earth. That is, not criticisms of the mainstream view of the old Earth, but actual scientific results that point to a roughly six-thousand year age of the Earth.
Creationism doesn't work that way.
Without the accepted mainstream science, there is no creationism. Their 'science' is purely reactionary, pointing to holes, gaps, and failings in mainstream, and then saying, 'Tada! Therefore Goddidit!'

Note the examples provided here ALL require the mainstream science to be accepted as finished, and complete, so any problem is not an opportunity for further research, but the failing that discounts the entire industry.

Sure, I get that. But does my interlocutor? If he is holding the mainstream to the standard that it must be able to explain all observations to be accepted, then it is only fair that I hold him to a similar standard. If he denies this request then it's a good indication that he's not having a discussion in good faith. And is he willing to admit that if that is the case?
 
Having been a scientist for many years, this approach to this subject does not surprise me and appears to be standard for the cutting edge of the field. These scientists will continue to study the subject, obtain more data, and present more detailed models. This stuff isn't easy, and can take a career timescale to achieve the right knowledge and experience to fully address the subject. I do not put much credence in a former systems administrator to have achieved this, compared to the scientists who are actively performing the research.
Yeah, but you're forgetting:

more.jpg
 
I didn't say I was a "scietist" though, so he probably does know more than I do.
 
It is not sufficient to assert that something would be impossible. You have to actually demonstrate it. Pick one or two claims from the list you put together and demonstrate, using the appropriate physics and mathematics, that it is indeed impossible.

If the universe was a few thousand years old, that would overturn everything we know about physics, geology, biology, and history, to name just a few disciplines. Our cell phones and GPS systems, to provide just one example, would not work, since they rely on general relativity to synchronize their clocks. And if GR is wrong, these phone designed using GR concepts could not possibly work. Yet my cellphone, and billions of cellphone just like it, continue to work fine. We continue to observe the CMB, and multiple, independent sources of measurement concur that the CMB is billions of years old. For these observations to be wrong, we must have miscalculated the speed of light, by about 6 orders of magnitude. Yet we have multiple independent sources of measurement that tell us that the speed of light is exactly what it is.

One thing I don't understand is why creationists don't publish their findings in peer reviewed science journals. You, and creationists like you, would gain instant fame and become worldwide celebrities overnight if you could demonstrate that everything we know about the universe is wrong. Yet creationists don't publish their work in science journals. Why is that? Because they are wrong. Talk is cheap. Show your work.

I didn’t claim general relativity is wrong. It’s practical as a physical model. Like classical mechanics, it’s practical.. until it isn’t or until there’s something it can’t model, like quantum mechanics. All the applied science that relies on classical mechanics remains useful.

There are four (some now say five) fundamental forces in the universe. Just that fact points to God rather than randomness. But the forces are irreducible. So you can’t explain electromagnetism by gravitational or the strong or weak nuclear forces. Is there really a good reason for this other than that God has established these irreducible forces?

And this ties into the speed of light.

“V838 Monocerotis then expanded from a visual apparent size of 4 light years to 7 light years in less than 7 months"

https://creation.com/faster-than-light

So we see that some of the assumptions about the speed of light (that is constant through space and time) may not be true.


Contrary to your claims that science would turned on its head, there’s little if anything in the areas of practical science that depend on evolution or billions of years. Things in medicine like the study of antibiotic resistance depend on natural selection, but that’s not evolution. There’s no acquisition of information, only a selection from that which is already present. And in regard to applied science in general, it does not depend on evolution and billions of years.

There’s a lot of really great creation material out there. There are creation journals. There are creationists who publish scientific papers. Some of them might be marginalized due to the evolutionary biases of the scientific establishment. But, though there are a lot of things that heavily favor the creation viewpoint, belief in it will depend on worldview. I could take the discovery of T-Rex collagen and red blood cells and say this is a surefire proof that these are not millions of years old. But even then, some people’s worldview will not allow for that, and so they’ll just say it ain’t so—that there must be another explanation.

Or take cosmic microwave background radiation, which you cite as evidence for your worldview. Yet I can cite the same as evidence for mine: https://creation.com/recent-cosmic-microwave-background-data-supports-creationist-cosmologies

The universe, besides being so finely tuned for life, just doesn’t fit the secular worldview. The fact that it doesn’t work is exemplified in the hypotheses concerning dark matter and dark energy. Like the Oort Cloud, this isn’t really science but story telling. And what’s the evidence for it? Only that the uniformitarian model is falsified without these rescuing devices.



In the meantime, I would ask you to present what you think are the best *scientific* results *for* a young Earth. That is, not criticisms of the mainstream view of the old Earth, but actual scientific results that point to a roughly six-thousand year age of the Earth. I'd be curious to see what these are.
Just to mention a few…

Carbon-14 in fossils, diamonds, coal—not explainable by contamination.

Helium in zircon crystals, which should have escaped in an old earth scenario.

The decay rate of the magnetic field precludes an age of the earth of over 20k years.

Sure, I get that. But does my interlocutor? If he is holding the mainstream to the standard that it must be able to explain all observations to be accepted, then it is only fair that I hold him to a similar standard. If he denies this request then it's a good indication that he's not having a discussion in good faith. And is he willing to admit that if that is the case?

See my reply to atrib. I keep using the term “rescuing devices “ because it seems the secular models rely heavily on this. A few rescuing devices don’t necessarily invalidate an entire paradigm. But when they are employed over and over again, such a paradigm looks a lot weaker. Our discussion here has been limited only to science, but there are plenty more evidences for the veracity of the Bible. I think the issue for me is, it is often perceived that secular science has it all figured out, and that evolution and billions of years definitively contradict the Bible. As I have shown that’s not so at all.
 
Just to mention a few…

Carbon-14 in fossils, diamonds, coal—not explainable by contamination.

Helium in zircon crystals, which should have escaped in an old earth scenario.

The decay rate of the magnetic field precludes an age of the earth of over 20k years..

Provide citations to scientific studies please. And ones that are not just criticisms of the mainstream but use physics and math to indicate positively a young Earth.
 
Also, I would appreciate a substantive response to my research and comments about vulcanism on Io. That actually took time for me to dig up the papers and read and type in so I believe I have earned a proper response.
 
So you can’t explain electromagnetism by gravitational or the strong or weak nuclear forces. Is there really a good reason for this other than that God has established these irreducible forces?

Hm, there's a funny principle at work here. "If you can't explain ___, that shows there's no better explanation than God".

Why does it default to God if it's not otherwise currently explained? If people can't explain x or y or z, then why doesn't Bob become the default explanation?
 
“V838 Monocerotis then expanded from a visual apparent size of 4 light years to 7 light years in less than 7 months"

https://creation.com/faster-than-light

Interesting that you bring this case up, because the creationist link itself provides the answer to the paradox.

Your Link said:
The shell only appears to expand at a superluminal velocity because the light the dust gives off is a ‘light echo:’ The light originates from the star’s 2002 eruption and is re-radiated by the dust shell. This geometric illusion is further explained by the diagrams in Figure 2 and 3.

Did you even read the link? It correctly explains that the faster than light expansion is an optical illusion and not an actual expansion of the stellar eruption debris.
 
I appreciate that you watched at least that much. Regarding the "old" sources, I am quite sure these are still modern and valid in the field of astronomy.
Without checking on whether anything new has been done, it seems. That's a *very* shoddy research procedure.

"As we cannot observe the formation of the solar system, only theoretical models are possible."
The sun: The sun rotates about 200 times too slowly for the nebular model to be true. It has more than 99% of the mass of the solar system yet only about 0.3% of the total angular momentum of the solar system. If the solar system condensed from a swirling ball of dust and gas, this violates the law of conservation of angular momentum. Of course, this is no problem for creationists. (This is not mentioned in that particular video, but he has covered it in other videos).
 Stellar rotation -  Magnetic braking (astronomy) -  Gyrochronology is a way of estimating stars' ages from their rotation rates.

Stars are braked by their magnetic fields extending out into their stellar winds.
Mercury: Mercury cannot be as dense as it has been observed to be according to the secular model. Due to the inconsistencies between the theoretical model and the empirical observations, it is now theorized by secular scientists that Mercury experienced a catastrophic collision that stripped away all the lesser-density materials. There’s no evidence for this ...
What would you consider acceptable evidence of such a collision?

Aesthete: "Moreover, Mercury has a magnetic field, which it should not have if it were billions of years old. The magnetic field decays too fast."

It would likely be frozen in. Have you ever heard of a permanent magnet?
Aesthete said:
Earth: According to the nebular model, the earth is too close to the sun for water to have condensed. For this reason, secular scientists theorize that the earth acquired it water via comet strikes. Besides the lack of evidence of this hypothesis, ...
What would you consider acceptable evidence for it?

Aesthete: "So for the earth, whole surface is mostly covered in water, ..." the Earth's oceans have only 1/4400 of the Earth's total mass.

Aesthete: "Earth’s moon: The moon is receding from the earth too quickly; extrapolated backwards and it is in contact with the earth within the timeframe of earth’s supposed age."

Tidal drag has varied over the Earth's history due to the motions of the continents.

Aesthete: "Gas giants: Jupiter and Saturn cannot have formed in their respective locations according to the secular models."

Check out the  Nice model and the  Grand tack hypothesis for the early Solar System. Both of them posit outer planets having moved from their original orbits. That is also posited for many exoplanets:  Hot Jupiter -  Planetary migration.

We weren't around to watch any of this happening, so we have to work backward from what we see in the present day.

Aesthete: "Also, Saturn's rings are far too clean to be billions of years old."

Saturn's rings may be much younger than Saturn itself, and produced by collisions of formerly-existing moons of the planet.

Aesthete: "Io: Io's extensive volcanic activity contradicts the old solar system view, as any such activity would have ceased a long time ago as the moon cooled off."

The source of Io's internal heat is well-understood: tidal kneading from having a forced eccentricity of its orbit from an orbital resonance with Europa and Ganymede.

Aesthete: "Ganymede: same as Mercury, having a magnetic field, for which a dynamo effect cannot be used an explanation, because it shouldn’t have a liquid core if it were billions of years old."

Here also, it could be a frozen magnetic field.

Aesthete: "Titan: secular scientists were quite surprised not to find massive seas of liquid ethane, which it should have as the methane in its atmosphere is broken down. Moreover, the methane is irreversibly lost and, with no way to replenish it, it looks to conform to a biblical age rather than a secular one."

I haven't been able to track down that claim.

Aesthete: "Enceladus: With erupting geysers and observed rates of the emission of heat far above evolutionary expectations, it also defies an age of billions of years, by which time it too would have been old, cold, and dead."

That also is produced by tidal kneading. Europa has a forced eccentricity from a resonance with the moon Dione.

Aesthete: "Yet, consider the case of an American warplane that crashed in Greenland in 1942. In 1990, it was found 80m deep. In 48 years, there were many hundreds of ice rings that had formed."

Sources on that?

Aesthete: "Radioactive dating is commonly propounded as evidence for a young earth. Yet carbon-14 is found in coal, oil, diamonds - which argues against an old age."

Carbon-14 in Coal Deposits -- C-14 in coal is produced by radioactivity in rock grains in coal. That radioactivity comes from the uranium, thorium, and their decay products in those grains. Likewise for oil and the rocks that it is in. "Apparently it correlates best with the content of the natural radioactivity of the rocks surrounding the fossil fuels, particularly the neutron- and alpha-particle-emitting isotopes of the uranium-thorium series."

Aesthete: "And other methods, like potassium-argon dating, have been used to produce ages of hundreds of thousands and even millions of years for volcanic eruptions whose timing is known, like 2.8 million years for Mount St Helens in 1986."

CD013.1: K-Ar dating of Mt. St. Helens dacite Two problems. (1) The lab that did the dating could not accurately date anything younger than 2 million years. (2) The rock may have had  Xenolith - rocks broken off by up-flowing magma and then spewed out.

Aesthete said:
There's also quite a problem when you look at the issue of geology, and assume uniformitarian processes. Catastrophic processes are a better explanation, and the global flood explains the rapid deposition of layers. It also explains fossilization, as this occurs by rapid burial, such as what occurred during the flood.
There are oodles of problems with the hypothesis of a recent global flood: Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition especially 7. Producing the Geological Record
 
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