Is a vaccine mandate a racist policy?

[Trausti]

I'm sensing kind of an ongoing theme here. Black people can't get IDs (so voter ID laws are a no-go), can't (or don't know how to) get on the internet and can't get to vaccination sites. And live in food deserts. All while living in predominantly Democrat controlled communities. So, remind me again why Democrats are black folks' best friends?

Especially when it’s been so clear that Republicans would treat them so so much better? It’s truly a wonder!!

/s. <— methinks I need this more in my posts.

Like contrasting the black homicide rate in Democrat cities/counties vs. Republican cities/counties? What result?

 

[Shadowy Man]

I'm sensing kind of an ongoing theme here. Black people can't get IDs (so voter ID laws are a no-go), can't (or don't know how to) get on the internet and can't get to vaccination sites. And live in food deserts. All while living in predominantly Democrat controlled communities. So, remind me again why Democrats are black folks' best friends?

Especially when it’s been so clear that Republicans would treat them so so much better? It’s truly a wonder!!

/s. <— methinks I need this more in my posts.

Like contrasting the black homicide rate in Democrat cities/counties vs. Republican cities/counties? What result?

In science we call that a problem of “small number statistics”.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I'm sensing kind of an ongoing theme here. Black people can't get IDs (so voter ID laws are a no-go), can't (or don't know how to) get on the internet and can't get to vaccination sites. And live in food deserts. All while living in predominantly Democrat controlled communities. So, remind me again why Democrats are black folks' best friends?

Yeah. A wise man once asked, “What do they have to lose?”
But at any rate…
Because Democrats are more likely to provide a social safety net than Republicans. Because Democrats are more likely to try and level the playing field than Republicans. Because Republicans are more likely to use poor people as political scapegoats.
See, rational black folks like most folks understand that though there be some inequity in the system, our lot in life is by and large our own doing. The rest of this crap is for bored old white people who took up complaining as a hobby.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/vacci...color-due-hesitancy-experts/story?id=77272753
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...ng-the-covid-19-vaccine-no-its-not-hesitancy/

The 538 piece was published in March, when the vaccine was tough to get for anybody. However, big cities (that have a high concentration of black people) had mass vaccination sites early. For example, Atlanta had a mass site at the Mercedes-Benz Stadium downtown. So I am not buying their arguments. If anything, a black person living in inner city Atlanta had an easier time getting a vaccine close to them than a white person living in Canton or something.

I was hard pressed to find any useful information in either of those articles. Given the time they were written, it’s not surprising.
I do like this comment though:
Reading between the lines, "Latinos are the least hesitant group, but they're also the least vaccinated," Caballero said. "That underscores the notion that access is the problem, not hesitancy."
“Notion”. Ugh.

A study linked in the ABC article does state “rural whites” did a pretty fair job of making it to vaccines sites. I would imagine their drive time is long and internet access sparse. Hell, just going to the mailbox can be quite the undertaking.

 

[KeepTalking]

With regard to the thread title: No, vaccine mandates are not racist.

In Ibram X. Kendi's America, any policy that results in (increasing) race inequality is racist, and any policy that reduces race inequality is anti-racist.

In America, white people are 1.2 times more likely than black people to have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. The gap could narrow but perhaps will never go away. So, if America institutes vaccine mandates that limit access to employment and public life for the unvaccinated, wouldn't that be a racist policy?

I'd ask Kendi directly but he isn't taking my calls.

Then why are you asking us? None of us is Kendi, and I don't think anyone here has advocated for the thing you say Kendi wrote about (but for some reason did not quote directly). If they did, but I missed it, please quote them, and ask them about it.

It was a little bit of humour, but I'll phrase the question more directly.

If black people in America have had systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated at the same level as white people, doesn't a vaccine mandate disproportionately affect black people negatively?

Only if the systemic issues only affect black people. So, what are the systemic issues, and how are they only affecting black people?

 

[Elixir]

If black people in America have had systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated at the same level as white people, doesn't a vaccine mandate disproportionately affect black people negatively?

If it does effect them disproportionately, it's disproportionately positive.
IOW it would be a good thing. Unless you're a right wing extremist bigot who would prefer that they continue to disproportionately die from the Trump Virus.

 

[Metaphor]

It was a little bit of humour, but I'll phrase the question more directly.

If black people in America have had systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated at the same level as white people, doesn't a vaccine mandate disproportionately affect black people negatively?

Only if the systemic issues only affect black people. So, what are the systemic issues, and how are they only affecting black people?

I didn't say there were systemic issues affecting only black people. But I take your response to mean "if the vaccine mandate causes black people to be more likely to be cut off from society and the economy, that does not mean it is racist". Is that right?

 

[Metaphor]

If black people in America have had systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated at the same level as white people, doesn't a vaccine mandate disproportionately affect black people negatively?

If it does effect them disproportionately, it's disproportionately positive.
IOW it would be a good thing. Unless you're a right wing extremist bigot who would prefer that they continue to disproportionately die from the Trump Virus.

I wasn't aware that putting people under house arrest was for their benefit, but rather everyone else's benefit.

There is no 'Trump Virus'. You are referring to COVID-19. But I can see that even American progressives cannot disguise their automatic centreing of America no matter what the topic.

 

[none]

If black people in America have had systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated at the same level as white people, doesn't a vaccine mandate disproportionately affect black people negatively?

If it does effect them disproportionately, it's disproportionately positive.
IOW it would be a good thing. Unless you're a right wing extremist bigot who would prefer that they continue to disproportionately die from the Trump Virus.

I wasn't aware that putting people under house arrest was for their benefit, but rather everyone else's benefit.

There is no 'Trump Virus'. You are referring to COVID-19. But I can see that even American progressives cannot disguise their automatic centreing of America no matter what the topic.

Well it's America afterall.

 

[Elixir]

I wasn't aware that putting people under house arrest was for their benefit

You got the first three words right... improvement!
Q: Who is under "house arrest"?

There is no 'Trump Virus'.

That's what Trump said in March 2020. Still wrong.

 

[KeepTalking]

It was a little bit of humour, but I'll phrase the question more directly.

If black people in America have had systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated at the same level as white people, doesn't a vaccine mandate disproportionately affect black people negatively?

Only if the systemic issues only affect black people. So, what are the systemic issues, and how are they only affecting black people?

I didn't say there were systemic issues affecting only black people. But I take your response to mean "if the vaccine mandate causes black people to be more likely to be cut off from society and the economy, that does not mean it is racist". Is that right?

What I meant to say was "Only if the systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated only affected black people". But I suppose "only" may have been too restrictive. I would be willing to substitute "predominantly" for "only".

The point is that one would need to first determine if there is a systemic issue preventing black people from being vaccinated, then examine whether or not the issue predominantly effects black people, to know if a mandate would disproportionally affect black people negatively. It is also possible, as another poster noted, that the vaccine mandate would affect black people positively, so that must be taken into account as well.

So that's why I asked the questions afterwards. What are the systemic issues? How are they predominantly affecting black people?

And, in hindsight, I would add another question or two: Given the above systemic issues, would we expect a vaccine mandate to affect black people disproportionally? If so, would that affect be positive or negative?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Have they?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/vacci...color-due-hesitancy-experts/story?id=77272753

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...ng-the-covid-19-vaccine-no-its-not-hesitancy/

So....they did not have equal opportunity to get it, and therefore a vaccine mandate is racist?

Yeah, sure. That's the issue. You've nailed it.

Welcome to Semantical Gotcha, the only game show dedicated to meaningless gotcha's for political points. Our first Contestant lives on a large island, thousands of miles from a place they love to go on about...

 

[Politesse]

In Ibram X. Kendi's America, any policy that results in (increasing) race inequality is racist, and any policy that reduces race inequality is anti-racist.

In America, white people are 1.2 times more likely than black people to have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. The gap could narrow but perhaps will never go away. So, if America institutes vaccine mandates that limit access to employment and public life for the unvaccinated, wouldn't that be a racist policy?

I'd ask Kendi directly but he isn't taking my calls.

You don't need to call him to learn his opinion on the epidemic and the response to it; Kendi has written a series of eloquent articles for The Atlantic describing his perspective:

We Still Don’t Know Who the Coronavirus’s Victims Were: One year into a racial pandemic within a viral one, the gaps in our collective knowledge are still startling.

Stop Blaming Black People for Dying of the Coronavirus: New data from 29 states confirm the extent of the racial disparities.

He does not, however, consider vaccine mandates in and of themselves to be racist, unless there are questions of unequal access and/or unequal blame. I feel comfortable assuming that you disagree with his point, but there's no need to speculate about it, as he has answered your very question almost word for word in multiple public fora. I note that I didn't just happen to know that; the above is the result of about fifteen seconds of Googling, a trick you might benefit from learning next time you are "curious" about an easily answerable question. You don't even need to come up with an original perspective of your own in response, the question was asked and posted by a like-minded individual to yourself, so you can just copy and paste the drivel from right below the linked video.

 

[KeepTalking]

In Ibram X. Kendi's America, any policy that results in (increasing) race inequality is racist, and any policy that reduces race inequality is anti-racist.

In America, white people are 1.2 times more likely than black people to have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. The gap could narrow but perhaps will never go away. So, if America institutes vaccine mandates that limit access to employment and public life for the unvaccinated, wouldn't that be a racist policy?

I'd ask Kendi directly but he isn't taking my calls.

You don't need to call him to learn his opinion on the epidemic and the response to it; Kendi has written a series of eloquent articles for The Atlantic describing his perspective:

We Still Don’t Know Who the Coronavirus’s Victims Were: One year into a racial pandemic within a viral one, the gaps in our collective knowledge are still startling.

Stop Blaming Black People for Dying of the Coronavirus: New data from 29 states confirm the extent of the racial disparities.

He does not, however, consider vaccine mandates in and of themselves to be racist, unless there are questions of unequal access and/or unequal blame. I feel comfortable assuming that you disagree with his point, but there's no need to speculate about it, as he has answered your very question almost word for word in multiple public fora. I note that I didn't just happen to know that; the above is the result of about fifteen seconds of Googling, a trick you might benefit from learning next time you are "curious" about an easily answerable question. You don't even need to come up with an original perspective of your own in response, the question was asked and posted by a like-minded individual to yourself, so you can just copy and paste the drivel from right below the linked video.

Well, now that we have it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, are we done here?

Does your review of the information provided above satisfy your question, Metaphor?

 

[Politesse]

In Ibram X. Kendi's America, any policy that results in (increasing) race inequality is racist, and any policy that reduces race inequality is anti-racist.

In America, white people are 1.2 times more likely than black people to have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. The gap could narrow but perhaps will never go away. So, if America institutes vaccine mandates that limit access to employment and public life for the unvaccinated, wouldn't that be a racist policy?

I'd ask Kendi directly but he isn't taking my calls.

You don't need to call him to learn his opinion on the epidemic and the response to it; Kendi has written a series of eloquent articles for The Atlantic describing his perspective:

We Still Don’t Know Who the Coronavirus’s Victims Were: One year into a racial pandemic within a viral one, the gaps in our collective knowledge are still startling.

Stop Blaming Black People for Dying of the Coronavirus: New data from 29 states confirm the extent of the racial disparities.

He does not, however, consider vaccine mandates in and of themselves to be racist, unless there are questions of unequal access and/or unequal blame. I feel comfortable assuming that you disagree with his point, but there's no need to speculate about it, as he has answered your very question almost word for word in multiple public fora. I note that I didn't just happen to know that; the above is the result of about fifteen seconds of Googling, a trick you might benefit from learning next time you are "curious" about an easily answerable question. You don't even need to come up with an original perspective of your own in response, the question was asked and posted by a like-minded individual to yourself, so you can just copy and paste the drivel from right below the linked video.

Well, now that we have it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, are we done here?

Does your review of the information provided above satisfy your question, Metaphor?

No, not yet; Metaphor still needs to say that Kendi's response is an obvious dodge and completely untrue, that if someone wants a vaccine, they can get one for free anywhere in the US, regardless of their race or location.

 

[Metaphor]

You got the first three words right... improvement!
Q: Who is under "house arrest"?

In Toni's scenario, the unvaccinated would be under house arrest indefinitely. Are you not following this conversation?

That's what Trump said in March 2020. Still wrong.

Sure luv.

 

[Metaphor]

Well, now that we have it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, are we done here?

No. He didn't even answer the question.

Does your review of the information provided above satisfy your question, Metaphor?

No. I heard evasion from Kendi and I still don't know whether he considers it a racist policy.

 

[Metaphor]

Well, now that we have it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, are we done here?

Does your review of the information provided above satisfy your question, Metaphor?

No, not yet; Metaphor still needs to say that Kendi's response is an obvious dodge and completely untrue, that if someone wants a vaccine, they can get one for free anywhere in the US, regardless of their race or location.

Kendi's answer is an obvious dodge, and he is wrong (at least wrong by his own earlier standards) to qualify whether a vaccine mandate is racist on the basis of whether America's vaccine policy produced unequal outcomes on a particular basis (unequal access).

Kendi says:

"A racist policy is any measure that produces or sustains racial inequity between racial groups. By policy, I mean written and unwritten laws, rules, procedures, processes, regulations, and guidelines that govern people."

White people are more vaccinated than black people in America. By the plain reading of Kendi's words, the vaccination rollout in America was a racist policy, because it has resulted in vaccine inequity between racial groups.

Now, we get to the mandate part. A vaccine mandate will harm the social and economic and psychological health of unvaccinated people, and black people are more likely to be unvaccinated. Applying Kendi's stated rules, a vaccine mandate in America would be a racist policy, given the underlying vaccine rate disparity.

 

[none]

You got the first three words right... improvement!
Q: Who is under "house arrest"?

In Toni's scenario, the unvaccinated would be under house arrest indefinitely. Are you not following this conversation?

That's what Trump said in March 2020. Still wrong.

Sure luv.

What better way to treat thugs?

 

[Politesse]

Well, now that we have it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, are we done here?

Does your review of the information provided above satisfy your question, Metaphor?

No, not yet; Metaphor still needs to say that Kendi's response is an obvious dodge and completely untrue, that if someone wants a vaccine, they can get one for free anywhere in the US, regardless of their race or location.

Kendi's answer is an obvious dodge, and he is wrong (at least wrong by his own earlier standards) to qualify whether a vaccine mandate is racist on the basis of whether America's vaccine policy produced unequal outcomes on a particular basis (unequal access).

Kendi says:

"A racist policy is any measure that produces or sustains racial inequity between racial groups. By policy, I mean written and unwritten laws, rules, procedures, processes, regulations, and guidelines that govern people."

White people are more vaccinated than black people in America. By the plain reading of Kendi's words, the vaccination rollout in America was a racist policy, because it has resulted in vaccine inequity between racial groups.

Now, we get to the mandate part. A vaccine mandate will harm the social and economic and psychological health of unvaccinated people, and black people are more likely to be unvaccinated. Applying Kendi's stated rules, a vaccine mandate in America would be a racist policy, given the underlying vaccine rate disparity.

"No" seems like a pretty clear answer to me, but then, I'm not arguing in bad faith to begin with.

If his answer were "yes", would you agree with him?

 

[Metaphor]

I didn't say there were systemic issues affecting only black people. But I take your response to mean "if the vaccine mandate causes black people to be more likely to be cut off from society and the economy, that does not mean it is racist". Is that right?

What I meant to say was "Only if the systemic issues preventing them from being vaccinated only affected black people". But I suppose "only" may have been too restrictive. I would be willing to substitute "predominantly" for "only".

The point is that one would need to first determine if there is a systemic issue preventing black people from being vaccinated, then examine whether or not the issue predominantly effects black people, to know if a mandate would disproportionally affect black people negatively. It is also possible, as another poster noted, that the vaccine mandate would affect black people positively, so that must be taken into account as well.

So that's why I asked the questions afterwards. What are the systemic issues? How are they predominantly affecting black people?

And, in hindsight, I would add another question or two: Given the above systemic issues, would we expect a vaccine mandate to affect black people disproportionally? If so, would that affect be positive or negative?

A vaccine mandate would affect unvaccinated people negatively. Their social, psychological, physical, and economic health will be compromised. Since black people are more likely to be unvaccinated, they would be affected 'disproportionately'.

People may know I am pro-vaccine but anti-mandate. I also think America has tried particularly hard to make the vaccine as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, and I don't think its vaccine rollout has been 'racist'.

So, I don't think the vaccine mandate is a 'racist' policy, but arithmetically speaking, there will be proportionately more black people being negatively psychologically, physically, socially, and economically harmed by it.