The God Zoo

[remez]

I could provide a much more detailed response but I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

You ignore the fact of contradictions while playing a game of denial. A contradiction - S and its denial not-S - happens when we have two opposing propositions where both cannot be true, if one is true the other must be false...both can be false but both cannot be true.

I completely agree with you there.
But here ……..

So, for example, if God is Love and love keeps no record of wrongs, God as Love cannot punish generations of children for the sins of their fathers....or curse the whole world for the mistake of a naive couple who did not know about good and evil until they had eaten of the forbidden fruit.

…is where I disagree. Your reasoning fails to produce a conflict. I don’t disagree with the verses you selected either.
So……
First let me show you that I’m not ignoring your reasoning by actually stating your reasoning in my own words.

"God is love." - 1 John 4:8
Straight up understanding.
So what is love?
You rightly quoted Paul.
Which leads you to then reason from 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 the love keeps no record of love. I have no objection with that it means that you should forgive and not to continually bring up past offenses to hurt or shame the one you are in conflict with. Forgive and forget. OK?

So against that you present your conflict here………..

God as Love cannot punish generations of children for the sins of their fathers

Which comes from…………

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,…..Ex 20:5

It certainly looks like a conflict on the SURFACE.

But is it really? Did you look up the context? Who was it said to? What was going on? What is the importance of the covenant here? And why? Is jealous to be judged evil in all contexts? What was the punishment? Are corrective punishments unloving?
Again....
ARE CORRECTIVE PUNISHMENTS UNLOVING?

I already addressed the term jealous. Since you did not protest I’ll consider that attempt dismissed.

So now let’s address “love keeps no record of wrong” verses “corrective punishment.”

So I ask you again is corrective punishment an unloving act?
Would it be loving NOT to punish your children for doing something that was going to hurt them?

Before you protest that they were doing nothing wrong, examine the CONTEXT of where idol worship lead their neighbors the Canaanites. They were sacrificing their children to Molech. No way was the loving God going to let them go that far. So if they did begin to idol worship the corrective punishment was going to be a deep purge.

So …….here is where its at……
Does “keeping no record of wrong” …..forgiveness, stand in conflict with corrective punishment?

Any reasonable person understanding the CONTEXT would not judge them to be in conflict.


Your thoughts?

 

[DBT]

I could provide a much more detailed response but I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

I completely agree with you there.
But here ……..

…is where I disagree. Your reasoning fails to produce a conflict. I don’t disagree with the verses you selected either.
So……
First let me show you that I’m not ignoring your reasoning by actually stating your reasoning in my own words.

"God is love." - 1 John 4:8
Straight up understanding.
So what is love?
You rightly quoted Paul.
Which leads you to then reason from 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 the love keeps no record of love. I have no objection with that it means that you should forgive and not to continually bring up past offenses to hurt or shame the one you are in conflict with. Forgive and forget. OK?

So against that you present your conflict here………..

God as Love cannot punish generations of children for the sins of their fathers

Which comes from…………

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,…..Ex 20:5

It certainly looks like a conflict on the SURFACE.

But is it really? Did you look up the context? Who was it said to? What was going on? What is the importance of the covenant here? And why? Is jealous to be judged evil in all contexts? What was the punishment? Are corrective punishments unloving?
Again....
ARE CORRECTIVE PUNISHMENTS UNLOVING?

I already addressed the term jealous. Since you did not protest I’ll consider that attempt dismissed.

So now let’s address “love keeps no record of wrong” verses “corrective punishment.”

So I ask you again is corrective punishment an unloving act?
Would it be loving NOT to punish your children for doing something that was going to hurt them?

Before you protest that they were doing nothing wrong, examine the CONTEXT of where idol worship lead their neighbors the Canaanites. They were sacrificing their children to Molech. No way was the loving God going to let them go that far. So if they did begin to idol worship the corrective punishment was going to be a deep purge.

So …….here is where its at……
Does “keeping no record of wrong” …..forgiveness, stand in conflict with corrective punishment?

Any reasonable person understanding the CONTEXT would not judge them to be in conflict.


Your thoughts?

My thought is that you refuse to see any contradiction in the bible because of the consequences to your faith.

It is quite clear that punishing generations (cursing the whole world over a poor decision by a naive couple) for sins of their fathers - for instance - is an example of keeping a record of wrongs (nor is it just), which contradicts the description of God is Love and Love keeps no record of wrongs, that love forgives not punishes.

So if one is true the other must be false and we clearly do have a contradiction in this instance. And in many others, some of which have been given, typically brushed aside because faith does not allow contradictions in the bible.


We are clearly not talking about "corrective punishments."

 

[Learner]

My thought is that you refuse to see any contradiction in the bible because of the consequences to your faith.

Remez has addressed them it seems to me.

It is quite clear that punishing generations (cursing the whole world over a poor decision by a naive couple) for sins of their fathers - for instance - is an example of keeping a record of wrongs (nor is it just), which contradicts the description of God is Love and Love keeps no record of wrongs, that love forgives not punishes.

So if one is true the other must be false and we clearly do have a contradiction in this instance. And in many others, some of which have been given, typically brushed aside because faith does not allow contradictions in the bible.


We are clearly not talking about "corrective punishments."

Oh come on DBT ... you can put it into better perspective as exampled below.

Ezekiel Chapter 18 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, [and] hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

Exodus 20:5 - Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

The bible when read in context is profoundly consistent.

 

[DBT]

My thought is that you refuse to see any contradiction in the bible because of the consequences to your faith.

Remez has addressed them it seems to me.

You are wrong. He hasn't. The contradictions between the given attributes of love on the one hand and violence, injustice and vindictiveness on the other are clearly in contradiction. Unless one sees it through the filter of faith.

Oh come on DBT ... you can put it into better perspective as exampled below.

Ezekiel Chapter 18 19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, [and] hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

Exodus 20:5 - Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

The bible when read in context is profoundly consistent.

''But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you'' Matthew 5:44.

''But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.'' Luke 6:27-36

 

[Learner]

You are wrong. He hasn't. The contradictions between the given attributes of love on the one hand and violence, injustice and vindictiveness on the other are clearly in contradiction. Unless one sees it through the filter of faith.

This is only an argument IF it's denied by theists that these contradictions don't exist!!! We are not denying these ARE contradictions. We agree with you

(textual but not contextual though)

Whats the argument then?

''But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you'' Matthew 5:44.

''But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.'' Luke 6:27-36

There can be only one Righteous Judge who is merciful and judges ALL accordingly.

EDIT: The Ultimate Judge that is. (Saints are to be judges too 1 Cor: 6:3)

 

[DBT]

You are wrong. He hasn't. The contradictions between the given attributes of love on the one hand and violence, injustice and vindictiveness on the other are clearly in contradiction. Unless one sees it through the filter of faith.

This is only an argument IF it's denied by theists that contradictions don't exist!!! We are not denying there ARE contradictions. We agree.

Whats the argument then?

''But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you'' Matthew 5:44.

''But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.'' Luke 6:27-36

There can be only one Righteous Judge who is merciful and judges ALL accordingly.

Not all theists acknowledge the presence of contradictions in the bible.

Contradictions in the bible mean that there are things in the bible that cannot be true. That the bible is not a reliable source of truth.

So, given the contradictions and descriptions of injustice, your 'Rightous Judge' may not be righteous at all.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What about metaphorical gods?

 

[DBT]

Each according to the way they are defined, I guess.

 

[Lion IRC]

You are wrong. He hasn't.

Yes, Remez has. And Learner is right.

Sheesh. There's gotta be a gazzilion atheist parents who understand that there's NOTHING contradictory about loving their children and disciplining their children.

 

[DBT]

You are wrong. He hasn't.

Yes, Remez has. And Learner is right.

Sheesh. There's gotta be a gazzilion atheist parents who understand that there's NOTHING contradictory about loving their children and disciplining their children.

We are not talking about discipline. The issue is injustice and evil. Creating evil and the evildoer has nothing to do with 'discipline,' morality or justice. You guys are misrepresenting what the verses clearly say and mean.

 

[Learner]

You are wrong. He hasn't.

Yes, Remez has. And Learner is right.

Sheesh. There's gotta be a gazzilion atheist parents who understand that there's NOTHING contradictory about loving their children and disciplining their children.

We are not talking about discipline. The issue is injustice and evil. Creating evil and the evildoer has nothing to do with 'discipline,' morality or justice. You guys are misrepresenting what the verses clearly say and mean.

It includes discipline because you are talking about contradictions in the bible. I can't understand the "misrepresenting" bit when you say it "means" what it says, yet we agree this is a contradiction to God is love etc, which ALSO seem to say what it means. As you say yourself " there can only be one or the other.

All we would want to know is ... can you make a case (as Remez keeps asking) , FROM the same information we have here, the contradictions that we all agree are there?

Making Your case representing either one or the other contradicing attribute's to God'. A True or False.

 

[remez]

I could provide a much more detailed response but I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

I completely agree with you there.
But here ……..

…is where I disagree. Your reasoning fails to produce a conflict. I don’t disagree with the verses you selected either.
So……
First let me show you that I’m not ignoring your reasoning by actually stating your reasoning in my own words.

"God is love." - 1 John 4:8
Straight up understanding.
So what is love?
You rightly quoted Paul.
Which leads you to then reason from 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 the love keeps no record of love. I have no objection with that it means that you should forgive and not to continually bring up past offenses to hurt or shame the one you are in conflict with. Forgive and forget. OK?

So against that you present your conflict here………..

God as Love cannot punish generations of children for the sins of their fathers

Which comes from…………

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,…..Ex 20:5

It certainly looks like a conflict on the SURFACE.

But is it really? Did you look up the context? Who was it said to? What was going on? What is the importance of the covenant here? And why? Is jealous to be judged evil in all contexts? What was the punishment? Are corrective punishments unloving?
Again....
ARE CORRECTIVE PUNISHMENTS UNLOVING?

I already addressed the term jealous. Since you did not protest I’ll consider that attempt dismissed.

So now let’s address “love keeps no record of wrong” verses “corrective punishment.”

So I ask you again is corrective punishment an unloving act?
Would it be loving NOT to punish your children for doing something that was going to hurt them?

Before you protest that they were doing nothing wrong, examine the CONTEXT of where idol worship lead their neighbors the Canaanites. They were sacrificing their children to Molech. No way was the loving God going to let them go that far. So if they did begin to idol worship the corrective punishment was going to be a deep purge.

So …….here is where its at……
Does “keeping no record of wrong” …..forgiveness, stand in conflict with corrective punishment?

Any reasonable person understanding the CONTEXT would not judge them to be in conflict.


Your thoughts?

My thought is that you refuse to see any contradiction in the bible because of the consequences to your faith.

It is quite clear that punishing generations (cursing the whole world over a poor decision by a naive couple) for sins of their fathers - for instance - is an example of keeping a record of wrongs (nor is it just), which contradicts the description of God is Love and Love keeps no record of wrongs, that love forgives not punishes.

So if one is true the other must be false and we clearly do have a contradiction in this instance. And in many others, some of which have been given, typically brushed aside because faith does not allow contradictions in the bible.


We are clearly not talking about "corrective punishments."

wow..................

My thought is that you refuse to see any contradiction in the bible because of the consequences to your faith.

Again with your conspiracy of intent? You really just don’t see how unreasonable that is. Watch…..I could just as unreasonably assert………you refuse to directly address any of the reasoning against your desperate misrepresentation of scripture bc of the consequences to your argument. See it gets you nowhere and sounds childish.
And further…..
We are not dealing with contradictions in the bible. We are dealing more specifically the PoE. You are using the bible to try and make your case.

It is quite clear that punishing generations (cursing the whole world over a poor decision by a naive couple) for sins of their fathers - for instance - is an example of keeping a record of wrongs (nor is it just), which contradicts the description of God is Love and Love keeps no record of wrongs, that love forgives not punishes.

That was not the argument YOU made. Be fair. The conflict you presented turned out to be “forgiveness” conflicts with “warning of correct punishment.” Which you have not challenged in anyway other than infer that I’m blind to bible contradictions. How is that to be considered reasonable in the light of the detailed case I presented?

So if one is true the other must be false and we clearly do have a contradiction in this instance. And in many others, some of which have been given, typically brushed aside because faith does not allow contradictions in the bible.

Again you offer no reasoning against want I presented. You are just desperately bemoaning your assumptions are true. Spell out where I was wrong. Take it to the Hebrew and Greek if you must. Make a case for how I got the context wrong. If it is so obvious that I’m wrong then AGAIN point it out specifically.
And stop doing this……………..

We are clearly not talking about "corrective punishments."

WHY?
WHY?
WHY?
And What did it mean?

I gave you reasons. What are yours? Quote the verse and make a case the context is not a warning of corrective punishment. What is the context? I placed in into the history of that time, covenants, neighboring nations, idol worship, child sacrifice etc.

Compared to what from you……???....MORE Desperate bemoaning for your assumptions and insulting conspiracy theory.

Seriously?

 

[DBT]

We are not talking about discipline. The issue is injustice and evil. Creating evil and the evildoer has nothing to do with 'discipline,' morality or justice. You guys are misrepresenting what the verses clearly say and mean.

It includes discipline because you are talking about contradictions in the bible. I can't understand the "misrepresenting" bit when you say it "means" what it says, yet we agree this is a contradiction to God is love etc, which ALSO seem to say what it means. As you say yourself " there can only be one or the other.

All we would want to know is ... can you make a case (as Remez keeps asking) , FROM the same information we have here, the contradictions that we all agree are there?

Making Your case representing either one or the other contradicing attribute's to God'. A True or False.

The misrepresentation lies in conflating ''corrective disciple'' and what is clearly vindictive punishment.

We don't hold the children or grandchildren responsible for the misdeeds of their forbears because it is not moral or just. So when the bible tells us that God creates both evil and th evildoer, 'the vessels fitted for destruction,' this goes way beyond ''corrective discipline' and into playing with lives like pawns in a game.

Which also contradicts the verse claiming that God is ''good to all and his tender mercies are all over his works.''


''The Lord is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.''Psalm 145:9

 

[DBT]

wow..................

That's right, wow, creating evil, the evidoer for the day of evil and the 'vessels fitted for destruction' has nothing much to do with 'corrective discipline'

We are not dealing with contradictions in the bible. We are dealing more specifically the PoE. You are using the bible to try and make your case.

Contradictions in the bible are related to the problem of evil because some here have claimed that God is engaging with 'corrective discipline' rather than creating evil, as the bible tells us.

The bible also tells us that God is Love and that Love does not create evil. So we are left with God creates evil versus God, being Love, does not create evil because Love kind, Love nurtures, forgives....

Compared to what from you……???....MORE Desperate bemoaning for your assumptions and insulting conspiracy theory.

Seriously?

It has nothing whatsoever to do with me, my assumptions or 'conspiracy theories' - you are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. I am merely quoting what the bible itself tells us and pointing to contradictions between verses and descriptions of God, a God of Love on one hand and vindictive tyrant on the other. As the two are not compatible, we are left with a contradiction.

''Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.'' 1 Corinthians 13

As opposed to;

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? " (Lamentations 3:38)


Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6)

 

[remez]

That's right, wow, creating evil, the evidoer for the day of evil and the 'vessels fitted for destruction' has nothing much to do with 'corrective discipline'

You’re jumping all over the place. I didn’t say they anything about the evildoers, vessels. I was much more focused. You are conflating several different pieces of evidences.

Here is the specific piece of your evidence I was focused on addressing…..from post 100

So, for example, if God is Love and love keeps no record of wrongs, God as Love cannot punish generations of children for the sins of their fathers

which you supported that with......
1 Jn 4:8 God is Love.
1 Cor 13:4-8….love keeps no record of wrong…
Conflicts with……
Ex 20:5……. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,…..

First I clearly restated your assumed conflict to set the record straight in post 101 and you offered no correction of that focus.
Then
Latter in that post 101 I established that there is no conflict bc the context renders a different interpretation than your surface shallow cherry picking. There is no conflict between…………

“Keeping no record of wrong” 1 Cor13:5 does not conflict with a “warning of corrective punishment.” Ex 20:5
So………….
If you desire to challenge that then do so specifically. It has nothing to do with evildoers or vessels.

If you wish to present another assumed contradiction dealing with evildoers and vessels then by all means specifically present one, ONCE you are done addressing your assumed conflict with 1 Cor13:5 and Ex 20:5 being in conflict. That is what I meant by you are all over the place.

I will not allow you to steamroll me with your voluminous imaginary set of conflicts. One by one so we can get beneath the surface of your assumptions.

We are clearly not talking about "corrective punishments."

WHY?
WHY?
WHY?
And What did it mean?

I gave you reasons. What are yours? Quote the verse and make a case the context is not a warning of corrective punishment. What is the context? I placed in into the history of that time, covenants, neighboring nations, idol worship, child sacrifice etc.

Compared to what from you……???....MORE Desperate bemoaning for your assumptions and insulting conspiracy theory.

Seriously?

It has nothing whatsoever to do with me, my assumptions or 'conspiracy theories' - you are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. I am merely quoting what the bible itself tells us and pointing to contradictions between verses and descriptions of God, a God of Love on one hand and vindictive tyrant on the other. As the two are not compatible, we are left with a contradiction.

You still provide no reasoning for why “a warning of corrective punishment” is not the case. Thus you are just assuming God is evil, you have not shown it.
And now...........
Where do you get “vindictive tyrant”? Directly quote the verse that says God is a vindictive tyrant. You can’t seriously argue the Ex 20:5 renders vindictive tyrant without presenting any such case for that.

I made a case for the understanding (Ex 20:5 post 101) that the interpretation here is one of corrective punishment or even treatment. You have made no case for “vindictive tyrant”. Your assertion of “vindictive tyrant” reads more like a protest labeling of your subjective dislike than a reasonable interpretation. So please clarify.

Directly quote the verse that says God is a vindictive tyrant.
Directly quote the verse that says God is a vindictive tyrant.
Directly quote the verse that says God is a vindictive tyrant.

And again this…..

The bible also tells us that God is Love and that Love does not create evil. So we are left with God creates evil versus God, being Love, does not create evil because Love kind, Love nurtures, forgives....

We are not left with a God that creates evil. That is your unexplored assumption of Is 45:7. I have already addressed that earlier in the thread by showing you that your assumption is based upon ignoring the context and fallaciously cherry picking the KJV. You have yet to rescue your incorrect assumption that God creates evil.

And these……….

''Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.'' 1 Corinthians 13

As opposed to;

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? " (Lamentations 3:38)


Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6)

….will need their own investigations for sure......But…… We can look at that once we are done with Ex 20.
Specifically....
Directly quote the verse that says God is a vindictive tyrant.

 

[DBT]

You’re jumping all over the place. I didn’t say they anything about the evildoers, vessels. I was much more focused. You are conflating several different pieces of evidences.

I'm neither jumping or avoiding. I am merely pointing out a contradiction between descriptions of a God of Love, which does not deliberately create evil and a God that deliberately creates evil....while those who believe in God and are apparently not willing to face this undeniable contradiction so are jumping about in denial of what is right in front of our eyes to see and read.

Here is the specific piece of your evidence I was focused on addressing…..from post 100

which you supported that with......
1 Jn 4:8 God is Love.
1 Cor 13:4-8….love keeps no record of wrong…
Conflicts with……
Ex 20:5……. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,…..

First I clearly restated your assumed conflict to set the record straight in post 101 and you offered no correction of that focus.

There is no assumed conflict....the conflict is right there before your eyes to see and read: if God as Love keeps no record of wrongs, God as Love cannot punish generations for the transgressions of their forbears.

It is a contradiction to say; to keep a record of wrongs, while at the same time, keep no record of wrongs.

One or the other may be true but not both. That is the very definition of a contradiction. keep a record/keep no record is undeniably a contradiction.

Directly quote the verse that says God is a vindictive tyrant.

I didn't say that there was a verse that stated it. I am pointing to the picture painted of God as the creator of evil - which is stated - a God that punishes and kills on the one hand, and the complete opposite on the other, a God of Love who does not delight in evil, who always forgives, who keeps no record of wrongs.

It's there for anyone to see.

 

[remez]

I'm neither jumping or avoiding.

You were attempting to add new verses and avoiding to address the reasoning I provided to expose your misinterpretations of the ones you posited already.

You just keep assuming your surface shallow cherry picking assumptions and misinterpretations are correct. Why won’t you address the reasoning I have provided against the verses you presented before attempting to add more to your faulty assumptions?

I am merely pointing out a contradiction between descriptions of a God of Love, which does not deliberately create evil

Granted….but

and a God that deliberately creates evil....

You have not established that assumption because you keep avoiding the reasoning I presented exposing your misinterpretations. You need to address that reasoning because until you do your reasoning is not to be assumed correct.

…..while those who believe in God and are apparently not willing to face this undeniable contradiction so are jumping about in denial of what is right in front of our eyes to see and read.

I not only faced it. I directly addressed it. I’m not willing to concede that your assumed “undeniable contradiction” exists. I’m not willing to let you childishly bully me by mischaracterizing my efforts to oppose you as simple “jumping about in denial.” How lazy you are. You can’t address my reasoning against your case so you simply call it denial and continue to assume your reasoning is true. Now that is a perfect representation of BLIND faith….belief against the evidence.

There is no assumed conflict....the conflict is right there before your eyes to see and read: if God as Love keeps no record of wrongs, God as Love cannot punish generations for the transgressions of their forbears.

It is a contradiction to say; to keep a record of wrongs, while at the same time, keep no record of wrongs.

Now that is simply flat out denial on your part. No reasoning as to why there is a conflict….. just denial.
So
Lets get beneath the surface and actually examine this.

Let’s logically start here……Where in history following that warning in Ex 20:5 did God actually punish Israel for generations?
And
Then we can reasonably examine that event to adjudicate if it was a contradiction to God’s being love.
Thus…..
Ball is in your court for now……. Where in history following that warning in Ex 20:5 did God actually punish Israel for generations?

One or the other may be true but not both. That is the very definition of a contradiction. keep a record/keep no record is undeniably a contradiction.

We’ll see. Once you can present an event for us to dissect. Perhaps the punishments needed generations to correct/repair the error. Isn’t it reasonable to think that some sinful acts could impact the generations that followed the act?

Name the event following Ex. 20:5 where God punished the Israelites for generations.

I didn't say that there was a verse that stated it. I am pointing to the picture painted of God as the creator of evil

But you’re the one holding the brush of misinterpretation.
Hence the cherry colored picture you perceive.

 

[Lion IRC]

If (since) God knows the greater good that will result from any event, any uneducated claim about the immorality of His actions is purely subjective.

It would be like an ignorant bystander watching a surgeon amputate a gangrenous limb and accusing the surgeon of torture.

 

[DBT]

If (since) God knows the greater good that will result from any event, any uneducated claim about the immorality of His actions is purely subjective.

It would be like an ignorant bystander watching a surgeon amputate a gangrenous limb and accusing the surgeon of torture.

Well, no...we are told that God deliberately creates evil, yet God always nurtures and protects. That is the contradiction.

To say that some good comes out of creating evil is absurd. Nobody wants their children to suffer and die over preventable disasters when there are better ways to learn, especially if we are proposing an Omnipotent Being who should be able to teach without creating evil. If humans can teach without torture, suffering and evil...why not an Omnipotent God?

 

[Learner]

Although I don't agree with your scriptural context (if there is one). Can humans teach without having laws in place which is there to stop by punishment some humans doing evil to others?