Today I saved the life of a helpless robin.

[T.G.G. Moogly]

We were working in the yard. There is an active robin nest in the pear tree beside a small pond. The nest is only six feet off the ground and the smallest hatchling, the runt, we found on the ground under the nest. It must have been pushed form the nest by its larger siblings. So I put it back in the nest. An hour later it was back on the ground.

So I went to another pear tree and pulled an old robin nest that was no longer active. I wedged this old nest alongside the active nest and placed the runt, eyes not yet opened, inside. Although the robin had fallen to the ground twice it did not look injured. I watched to make sure it was getting attention from the parents and it was. To be sure it was getting at least some food I bought some meal worms, chopped them into tiny pieces and fed this runt by hand. He ate ravenously and is now asleep with the rest of his brood in his nest.

So I kinda changed the universe today. I hope the little guy makes it.

 

[OLDMAN]

This reminds me of how religious people argue that without god we are all as meaningless as mosquitos. But that is putting everything backwards. It means the mosquito is as important as people. Even blades of grass are important, once you start to realize their significance in the big picture. Robbin may or may not make it, but your intentions do not hurt.

 

[thebeave]

We were working in the yard. There is an active robin nest in the pear tree beside a small pond. The nest is only six feet off the ground and the smallest hatchling, the runt, we found on the ground under the nest. It must have been pushed form the nest by its larger siblings. So I put it back in the nest. An hour later it was back on the ground.

So I went to another pear tree and pulled an old robin nest that was no longer active. I wedged this old nest alongside the active nest and placed the runt, eyes not yet opened, inside. Although the robin had fallen to the ground twice it did not look injured. I watched to make sure it was getting attention from the parents and it was. To be sure it was getting at least some food I bought some meal worms, chopped them into tiny pieces and fed this runt by hand. He ate ravenously and is now asleep with the rest of his brood in his nest.

So I kinda changed the universe today. I hope the little guy makes it.

It's hard to say whether you did a good thing or not. What if later on he flies into the windshield of car, causing it veer out of control and kill 7 people?

You're kinda like the lady who patted herself on the back after saving Baby Hitler from choking back in 1890.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

We were working in the yard. There is an active robin nest in the pear tree beside a small pond. The nest is only six feet off the ground and the smallest hatchling, the runt, we found on the ground under the nest. It must have been pushed form the nest by its larger siblings. So I put it back in the nest. An hour later it was back on the ground.

So I went to another pear tree and pulled an old robin nest that was no longer active. I wedged this old nest alongside the active nest and placed the runt, eyes not yet opened, inside. Although the robin had fallen to the ground twice it did not look injured. I watched to make sure it was getting attention from the parents and it was. To be sure it was getting at least some food I bought some meal worms, chopped them into tiny pieces and fed this runt by hand. He ate ravenously and is now asleep with the rest of his brood in his nest.

So I kinda changed the universe today. I hope the little guy makes it.

It's hard to say whether you did a good thing or not. What if later on he flies into the windshield of car, causing it veer out of control and kill 7 people?

You're kinda like the lady who patted herself on the back after saving Baby Hitler from choking back in 1890.

But maybe one of those 7 people was the next Adolph Hitler, or a lady about to save the next Adolph Hitler from choking.

There's probably a logical fallacy involved in hypothesizing connections that don't exist or discounting the infinite number of possibilities that actually do exist.

 

[thebeave]

We were working in the yard. There is an active robin nest in the pear tree beside a small pond. The nest is only six feet off the ground and the smallest hatchling, the runt, we found on the ground under the nest. It must have been pushed form the nest by its larger siblings. So I put it back in the nest. An hour later it was back on the ground.

So I went to another pear tree and pulled an old robin nest that was no longer active. I wedged this old nest alongside the active nest and placed the runt, eyes not yet opened, inside. Although the robin had fallen to the ground twice it did not look injured. I watched to make sure it was getting attention from the parents and it was. To be sure it was getting at least some food I bought some meal worms, chopped them into tiny pieces and fed this runt by hand. He ate ravenously and is now asleep with the rest of his brood in his nest.

So I kinda changed the universe today. I hope the little guy makes it.

It's hard to say whether you did a good thing or not. What if later on he flies into the windshield of car, causing it veer out of control and kill 7 people?

You're kinda like the lady who patted herself on the back after saving Baby Hitler from choking back in 1890.

But maybe one of those 7 people was the next Adolph Hitler, or a lady about to save the next Adolph Hitler from choking.

There's probably a logical fallacy involved in hypothesizing connections that don't exist or discounting the infinite number of possibilities that actually do exist.

Don't take what I said too seriously. I was being tongue in cheek...just messin' with ya. I would have helped out the robin too. It is kinda fun to ponder, though, on how minor actions we do might affect world events

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

It's been a few days and the little guy is hanging in there. I found him on the ground again the other morning, covered with biting ants, cold and in a bad way. I got the ants off got him and warmed him up by holding him in my hands and breathing on him. After a while he pinked up and relaxed. He's hard to feed but I did get some food in him.

The nest had gotten loose and he just fell out. So I put the nest in a plastic pot and strapped it to branches and placed him inside. He's very secure now and right up against his siblings. Found one of the adults sitting right on him and he was nice and warm when I checked him. His parents are fearless.

If I see him getting worse I'm going to switch places with one of his older siblings and see how that goes. He must be getting enough food and warmth or he would be dead by now according to the experts.

@thebeave: It's all good. Keep making me think.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Well, the little guy didn't make it. I'm sad but I don't feel terrible. I learned a lot and the next time I will be able to do better. I gave him a decent burial in the garden.

He was warm when I checked him last night but he was cold and lifeless this morning. Rigor Mortis had not set in so he was not gone for long. He obviously died of starvation, exposure and neglect.

Had he been alive this morning I had planned to wet some dog food and feed him away from the parents. Their shrieking definitely causes the young to cower in their nests and makes it difficult to get any food in. I planned to bring him inside, feed him and then swap his position with a larger healthy sibling. Next time I will do better.

The upside is we have a very healthy welcoming yard where birds nest aplenty. Hummers have been around constantly feeding on the flowers and I'm hoping they will nest as well. I see them collecting spiderweb so I know they must have a nest somewhere nearby.

 

[Tharmas]

Years ago I had a friend who found a baby bird under a tree while he was mowing the lawn. It had apparently fallen out of the nest. It was very young – hadn’t opened his eyes yet – but still alive.

My friend took it inside, put it in a shoebox with some grass and tissue paper, and fed it ground hamburger whenever he could. The little fella grew.

When it fledged we recognized it as a Blue Jay. My friend continued to feed it, and trained it to perch on his shoulder as he walked around his house. The bird would jump off his shoulder and try to fly. It grew stronger.

Then one day he took it outside, perched on his shoulder. After a few minutes, the little fellow flew away and landed on a tree branch. Then it flew back and landed on my friend’s shoulder. Then it took off again and didn’t return.

Happy ending.

 

[southernhybrid]

Sorry the baby bird didn't make it. Rescuing a baby bird or small animal is not much in the general scheme of things, but we humans often feel the need to save little critters, even when we are often not very nice to our own kind. Is that the moral lesson here, if there is one?

I did try to save two frogs that had jumped into our pool a couple of weeks ago. One was nearly dead when I fished him out, so I know he didn't make it. The other one was a little more mature and he looked as if he might make it, so I gently put him down near one of the tiny garden ponds. I have no idea if he made it or not, but he was gone from the place where I had put him by the next day.

The two frogs in the other tiny pond have been there for several years. I almost think of them as low maintenance pets. I check on them everyday, but since they have successfully lived and bred in the tiny pond for years, I will miss them when they are gone, assuming no other frog takes over their tiny habitat. Frogs certainly do more for the planet than we do, yet our habits are making it more difficult for frogs and birds to survive. On the one hand, if the pool wasn't there, the frogs wouldn't have drowned, but on the other hand, if the human made ponds were't there, the other frogs might not have found such a safe place to live and breed and the drowned frog would have never had a life at all.

Back to birds....

A couple of years ago, I watched in horror as a squirrel ate the newborn babies of two cardinals that were nesting in a Crape Myrtle tree just outside our front door. Considering that most humans will eat birds and mammals, I certainly can't condemn the hungry squirrel who ate those baby birds. It was just sad to see the helpless parents look on while their offspring were being consumed.

We also called animal control one year to take away an injured fawn that was hit by a car. I was amazed at the caring attitudes of the men who carried the fawn to their truck. They said they planned to take it to a rescue organization to see if it could be saved. So, on the one hand, we have hunters who shoot and kill deer for sport or for food. On the other hand, we desperately try to save a baby fawn that has been injured by a human invention.

Is there something about baby animals that brings out our empathy in a parental way, that makes us want to save a tiny creature? Maybe that's the point that my rambling is making.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think that's the moral lesson, to protect and nurture the helpless. From what I've read i should have taken it and reared it inside, feeding it moist pet food or eggs or insects. This guy's eyes were barely opening and I learned that if separated from the parent nest, even if only by a few millimeters it doesn't get fed. Next time I will know better.

Speaking of frogs I have an amphibian pond that reared it's first tiny green frog today. It could sit on a dime. I think the tadpoles are a mix of toads and frogs.

 

[untermensche]

The only lessen here is humans have empathy.

And we should create societies that express that fact.

Nature is cruel and uncaring and unforgiving.

That is knowledge a person should have very early in life.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

You could not possibly have done more for that bird and as you say, another time you will have more knowledge and experience.

That sort of compassion is exactly the sort of thing we need to wave at Christians who claim that without god there is no morality.

.

 

[southernhybrid]

You could not possibly have done more for that bird and as you say, another time you will have more knowledge and experience.

That sort of compassion is exactly the sort of thing we need to wave at Christians who claim that without god there is no morality.

.

This is true and it's not just the tiny helpless creatures that we have compassion for, many of us find joy in helping those who live in poverty or simply need a little emotional support from friends. There is joy in helping others. No gods required.

 

[untermensche]

There is usually a limit to our empathy.

It can extend to small birds.

But what about the insects the bird is eating?

Do we care about that life?

 

[fromderinside]

In the age of modern genetic knowledge you want morality to be constrained to particular religious underpinnings? It's the 21st century. Open a book.

 

[southernhybrid]

There is usually a limit to our empathy.

It can extend to small birds.

But what about the insects the bird is eating?

Do we care about that life?

Of course we do. They are food for the birds and frogs who we love. I do sometimes feel a little bit sorry for the bugs that I vacuum up when they make it into my house, but I will happily swat a mosquito who bites me. Did anyone here say that our empathy is unlimited? I didn't think so. In fact, maybe you missed the point. I think the point is that humans are often happy to rescue helpless little creatures, not that humans are empathetic all of the time.

For example, neighbors might not care about each other until there is a disaster or tragedy, then suddenly they join together to help the victims of the disaster.

And, some humans totally lack empathy. We usually refer to them as sociopaths, or psychopaths, a condition that is a brain disorder, according to a book I read about psychopathy. That is why I can feel both disgust and empathy for a psychopath. I don't think they can help what they are, but I'm not interested in discussing psychopathy, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[untermensche]

There is usually a limit to our empathy.

It can extend to small birds.

But what about the insects the bird is eating?

Do we care about that life?

Of course we do. They are food for the birds and frogs who we love. I do sometimes feel a little bit sorry for the bugs that I vacuum up when they make it into my house, but I will happily swat a mosquito who bites me. Did anyone here say that our empathy is unlimited? I didn't think so. In fact, maybe you missed the point. I think the point is that humans are often happy to rescue helpless little creatures, not that humans are empathetic all of the time.

For example, neighbors might not care about each other until there is a disaster or tragedy, then suddenly they join together to help the victims of the disaster.

And, some humans totally lack empathy. We usually refer to them as sociopaths, or psychopaths, a condition that is a brain disorder, according to a book I read about psychopathy. That is why I can feel both disgust and empathy for a psychopath. I don't think they can help what they are, but I'm not interested in discussing psychopathy, so I'll leave it at that.

Humans have the capacity to have empathy. Even for insects. Even for other humans.

But humans are free.

They can easily ignore their feelings too.

The good feelings that come from tragedy that unite people don't last long.

I remember 911.

 

[Jarhyn]

You could not possibly have done more for that bird and as you say, another time you will have more knowledge and experience.

That sort of compassion is exactly the sort of thing we need to wave at Christians who claim that without god there is no morality.

.

I have a walking stick. I walk with it every day. It is a fairly stout seeming young tree, and I have been pouring free time and spending the majority of my personal allotment of artistic insanity on it. I have chucked countless hours into the pursuit of this, killed a fair number of trees, and put more calluses into my hands working knives and saws and sandpaper than I would have liked. Far more, in fact, than I would have had I actually EVER used a proper carving or sanding tool, or even had access to a sharper than "dull" saw blade; I didn't.

Now, it being by virtue of what it is, namely a piece of stout wood a hand shorter than I am tall, this thing is shaped like a weapon. Had I not spent all the hours of work on this labor of love, it would, in fact, be a weapon.

But here's the rub: after years of work, this thing is not, in fact, a weapon any longer. Sure, I could swing it like one, but it would destroy all that it is.

But yet, whenever I have the power to express that it is a weapon, whenever I am offered with the opportunity to view it from that perspective, I feel both me, and the work I have done to make it what it is (a piece of art) less, and it is merely defiled.

So too, the joy I get from helping others. Surely it IS a comfort when someone would claim I lack empathy because I have no god. But as with my staff, I feel like I have walked through a swamp and had the bugs there drink their fill of me, and had the mud there found a home on me to look at my love as a weapon against anything or anyone, even an insult I know will come back again and again like a bad penny, and all for the sake of merely having thought of it, not even having done it.

Perhaps I should instead, when I think of that question, ask "do I have enough empathy?" And allow myself the doubt.

Instead, I will fashion a different weapon, an actual weapon against such: "Gods are not the reason we have empathy. Empathy is merely the byproduct of the Social Paradigm, and so Empathy is born in the question of whether you have it, and the honest acceptance that 'I do not have enough!'; if you assume you have it, take it for granted because 'gods', perhaps you are the one who lack it. So, gods do not grant empathy; rather, they take it away and replace it with a lie."

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There is usually a limit to our empathy.

It can extend to small birds.

But what about the insects the bird is eating?

Do we care about that life?

Of course we do. They are food for the birds and frogs who we love. I do sometimes feel a little bit sorry for the bugs that I vacuum up when they make it into my house, but I will happily swat a mosquito who bites me. Did anyone here say that our empathy is unlimited? I didn't think so. In fact, maybe you missed the point. I think the point is that humans are often happy to rescue helpless little creatures, not that humans are empathetic all of the time.

For example, neighbors might not care about each other until there is a disaster or tragedy, then suddenly they join together to help the victims of the disaster.

And, some humans totally lack empathy. We usually refer to them as sociopaths, or psychopaths, a condition that is a brain disorder, according to a book I read about psychopathy. That is why I can feel both disgust and empathy for a psychopath. I don't think they can help what they are, but I'm not interested in discussing psychopathy, so I'll leave it at that.

Yep. Some of us seem to constantly separate the good from the perfect. Everything is perfect or it's broken. A little empathy isn't anything good because it isn't complete empathy. Therefore a little empathy is something bad. That is certainly a mental disorder, at least by today's standards. Maybe it wasn't a disorder 250,000 human years ago.

 

[untermensche]

It is not about good or bad.

It is about the strangeness of caring about the bird but not the living things the bird is eating.

You have some birds that eat small mammals.

Do we feel empathy for the bird or the mammal?