• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Where Did 'God' Come From?

What is the reality of whoever it is running simulations?

That's a very clever question, young man, but it's  turtles all the way down!
I think each simulation would have less information than its outside world.... and each outer world would have more information than the simulation... so I don't believe that there could be an infinite number of levels....

Excellent ideas to ruminate! Your alternative leaves room for the Steady State model and/or the BB model. Nice. I prefer the SSM myself. I forget where I first heard of it...or did I dream it...?***

I see two whales adrift in the ocean...impenetrable blackness all around...total darkness...Bill? Who's Bill? etc...


A balm?! What are you giving him a balm for?! It might bite him! Quick, throw it in the pot...

 
A newborn child, cold and hungry, cries out to the universe for food and warmth. He is gathered up in his mother’s arms, and is comforted, and fed.

We don’t remember this experience, but it is one we’ve all shared. I believe it leaves us with a sense that we might implore a greater being to come to our aid in time of trouble, and that it is likely the seed of the idea of ‘God’.

On a cold day, I walked out of the apartment ready to shiver. Stepping out of the shadow and into the sunlight, I felt a warmth and comfort, as if I were loved by the Sun. And I understood how easy it was for our ancestors to view the Sun as a god.

In early history people worshiped multiple gods, prayed to them for favors and offered them gifts so that the rains would water their crops, and the river would not flood their homes. By coincidence, this sometimes appeared to work. Psychologists have since discovered that behavior that was intermittently rewarded was more difficult to extinguish than behavior that was consistently rewarded. And so superstition flourished.

But then something new was added. Monotheism took the strong position that there was only one God.

And not only was this the God to pray to and worship, but this God also expected you to follow rules. If you followed the commandments, you would prosper, if not in this life, then in the next.

I remember the preachers from my youth, Oral Roberts and Norman Vincent Peale, teaching that God is a Good God, and that following Him brings both blessings and expectations. I remember the prayer at dinner, “God is Great, God is Good …”.

God became a way to make being good and doing good both valuable and sacred. And that is why the idea is still useful today, even by those of us who use the term in a literary rather than a literal sense.
What?! God came about over control.

Animism existed as a ritualistic method of trying to control nature. Gods then came about as conscious controller of aspects of nature, but the animal killings were still kept around. It wasn't about good or bad... it was about whether they (god(s)) were pleased or not so that nature would do as was beneficial for humans.
 
What is the reality of whoever it is running simulations?
I think it would be a futuristic world whose past vaguely resembles our current world. (Known as "ancestor simulations" when precisely simulating their past)

Various possible scenarios:

The "Roy" game: (skip to 24 seconds) - you're just a player - who forgot their outer identity:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szzVlQ653as&t=24s[/YOUTUBE]

Where the player is the creator God:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeS4k3pKo5o[/YOUTUBE]

Assuming the Christian God exists - they could be ignorant of their original identity:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5PlJiqOnk[/YOUTUBE]
This isn't remotely on topic.
 
A newborn child, cold and hungry, cries out to the universe for food and warmth. He is gathered up in his mother’s arms, and is comforted, and fed.

We don’t remember this experience, but it is one we’ve all shared. I believe it leaves us with a sense that we might implore a greater being to come to our aid in time of trouble, and that it is likely the seed of the idea of ‘God’.

On a cold day, I walked out of the apartment ready to shiver. Stepping out of the shadow and into the sunlight, I felt a warmth and comfort, as if I were loved by the Sun. And I understood how easy it was for our ancestors to view the Sun as a god.

In early history people worshiped multiple gods, prayed to them for favors and offered them gifts so that the rains would water their crops, and the river would not flood their homes. By coincidence, this sometimes appeared to work. Psychologists have since discovered that behavior that was intermittently rewarded was more difficult to extinguish than behavior that was consistently rewarded. And so superstition flourished. [<<< ...ahem...]

But then something new was added. Monotheism took the strong position that there was only one God.

And not only was this the God to pray to and worship, but this God also expected you to follow rules. If you followed the commandments, you would prosper, if not in this life, then in the next.

I remember the preachers from my youth, Oral Roberts and Norman Vincent Peale, teaching that God is a Good God, and that following Him brings both blessings and expectations. I remember the prayer at dinner, “God is Great, God is Good …”.

God became a way to make being good and doing good both valuable and sacred. And that is why the idea is still useful today, even by those of us who use the term in a literary rather than a literal sense.
What?! God came about over control.

Animism existed as a ritualistic method of trying to control nature. Gods then came about as conscious controller of aspects of nature, but the animal killings were still kept around. It wasn't about good or bad... it was about whether they (god(s)) were pleased or not so that nature would do as was beneficial for humans.

In case some people - oh I don't know who - missed the whole OP, which JH kindly quoted above, I emboldened that last part. The part where Marvin wraps it up. You can still read the parts I didn't embolden for extra emphasis, but this is only a suggestion to those people - Oh, uh...I'm not going to point any fingers, mind you. Who's judging? What? Me judge? :shrug: - who may have skimmed it and misunderstood the intent of the post as a whole.

Go ahead and read it over, go ahead. Couldn't hurt.
 
What is the reality of whoever it is running simulations?
I think it would be a futuristic world whose past vaguely resembles our current world. (Known as "ancestor simulations" when precisely simulating their past)

Various possible scenarios:

The "Roy" game: (skip to 24 seconds) - you're just a player - who forgot their outer identity:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szzVlQ653as&t=24s[/YOUTUBE]

Where the player is the creator God:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeS4k3pKo5o[/YOUTUBE]

Assuming the Christian God exists - they could be ignorant of their original identity:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5PlJiqOnk[/YOUTUBE]
This isn't remotely on topic.

Actually it is, but admittedly, one has to think about it quite a bit.
 
God became a way to make being good and doing good both valuable and sacred. And that is why the idea is still useful today, even by those of us who use the term in a literary rather than a literal sense.

Humans can be good and do good without needing to rely on instructions from gods. I have never believed in gods, and I have no problem in behaving like a good person and doing good deeds. Calling on gods as the source of morality gives us nothing of benefit, and has the potential to cause great harm when these alleged teachings conflict with the well being of people.
 
Well, you got the good stuff and you got the bad stuff. The fact of the bad stuff does not discount the good stuff. The fact of the good stuff does not discount the bad stuff. It's sort of like history. We only recently took down the statues of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. Mankind is not perfect and neither are the gods we create.

Is there any concept or advice that the Bible has contributed that have not been or could not possibly be derived from a secular analysis of well being and how to achieve it? Is there any good thing that a Christian can do that could not also be done by a nonbeliever?
 
A newborn child, cold and hungry, cries out to the universe for food and warmth. He is gathered up in his mother’s arms, and is comforted, and fed.

We don’t remember this experience, but it is one we’ve all shared. I believe it leaves us with a sense that we might implore a greater being to come to our aid in time of trouble, and that it is likely the seed of the idea of ‘God’.

On a cold day, I walked out of the apartment ready to shiver. Stepping out of the shadow and into the sunlight, I felt a warmth and comfort, as if I were loved by the Sun. And I understood how easy it was for our ancestors to view the Sun as a god.

In early history people worshiped multiple gods, prayed to them for favors and offered them gifts so that the rains would water their crops, and the river would not flood their homes. By coincidence, this sometimes appeared to work. Psychologists have since discovered that behavior that was intermittently rewarded was more difficult to extinguish than behavior that was consistently rewarded. And so superstition flourished. [<<< ...ahem...]

But then something new was added. Monotheism took the strong position that there was only one God.

And not only was this the God to pray to and worship, but this God also expected you to follow rules. If you followed the commandments, you would prosper, if not in this life, then in the next.

I remember the preachers from my youth, Oral Roberts and Norman Vincent Peale, teaching that God is a Good God, and that following Him brings both blessings and expectations. I remember the prayer at dinner, “God is Great, God is Good …”.

God became a way to make being good and doing good both valuable and sacred. And that is why the idea is still useful today, even by those of us who use the term in a literary rather than a literal sense.
What?! God came about over control.

Animism existed as a ritualistic method of trying to control nature. Gods then came about as conscious controller of aspects of nature, but the animal killings were still kept around. It wasn't about good or bad... it was about whether they (god(s)) were pleased or not so that nature would do as was beneficial for humans.

In case some people - oh I don't know who - missed the whole OP, which JH kindly quoted above, I emboldened that last part. The part where Marvin wraps it up. You can still read the parts I didn't embolden for extra emphasis, but this is only a suggestion to those people - Oh, uh...I'm not going to point any fingers, mind you. Who's judging? What? Me judge? :shrug: - who may have skimmed it and misunderstood the intent of the post as a whole.

Go ahead and read it over, go ahead. Couldn't hurt.
Apparently I need to finish up the though. Beyond the point where we are talking about a god(s) purpose is to control nature, we get to the angry and spiteful god that has shit all to do with kindness and everything to do with dominance. Spirituality transitioned from supernatural that needed to be pleased to help nature move along to using spirituality to enforce control over people.

Kindness? In a Yahweh branch faith? Are we fucking kinding?
 
Well, you got the good stuff and you got the bad stuff. The fact of the bad stuff does not discount the good stuff. The fact of the good stuff does not discount the bad stuff. It's sort of like history. We only recently took down the statues of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. Mankind is not perfect and neither are the gods we create.

Is there any concept or advice that the Bible has contributed that have not been or could not possibly be derived from a secular analysis of well being and how to achieve it? Is there any good thing that a Christian can do that could not also be done by a nonbeliever?
To a hardcore believer the group identity is what is most important. In other words, "I must be accepted by my tribe." The woo is simply the most important aspect of the group identity.
 
God became a way to make being good and doing good both valuable and sacred. And that is why the idea is still useful today, even by those of us who use the term in a literary rather than a literal sense.

Humans can be good and do good without needing to rely on instructions from gods. I have never believed in gods, and I have no problem in behaving like a good person and doing good deeds. Calling on gods as the source of morality gives us nothing of benefit, and has the potential to cause great harm when these alleged teachings conflict with the well being of people.

Correct.
 
This isn't remotely on topic.
Regarding my talk about simulations - if there is a simulation then I think there is an intelligent force/"God". A reason people have a belief in God could be because he exists. (though I don't think he is obvious to skeptics - meaning that their belief in God isn't very justified even if it is based on reality)
 
This isn't remotely on topic.
Regarding my talk about simulations - if there is a simulation then I think there is an intelligent force/"God". A reason people have a belief in God could be because he exists. (though I don't think he is obvious to skeptics - meaning that their belief in God isn't very justified even if it is based on reality)

I only watched the Alan Watts video and it was pretty cool. I read his "The Way of Zen" when I was in college.
 
I only watched the Alan Watts video and it was pretty cool. I read his "The Way of Zen" when I was in college.
I like how it argues that the player is not only the God behind their reality, but they chose to allow suffering in their life.... also I interpret the speech as being about immersive video games.... and like in the "Roy" game the game time is sped up....
 
I really like the 1999 movie "The Thirteenth Floor". It's about these guys creating a simulated reality and then one of them discovers they are in one. I've seen it a couple times now.
 
I really like the 1999 movie "The Thirteenth Floor". It's about these guys creating a simulated reality and then one of them discovers they are in one. I've seen it a couple times now.
Yeah I also like ExistenZ, Bliss (on Amazon), Upload (Amazon), Vanilla Sky, Black Mirror, Rick and Morty (S1E4), Inception (I think it is relevant to simulations)... I like how in The Thirteenth Floor you can possess existing characters.... (involves "avatars"?) My beliefs about our possible simulation are partly based on a lot of movies and TV shows.... they are examples of different possible purposes behind the simulation.
 
Religion is living in a mental kind of imagined simulation. One adjusts perceptions of reality as being part of a god scenario.
 
Religion is living in a mental kind of imagined simulation. One adjusts perceptions of reality as being part of a god scenario.

Good point. I suspect we all indulge illusions of different sorts.

Apologetics. Throughout hisoy religion has been a major source of amuse of power, control, conflict, death, and destruction.

Illusion and delusion are two different things. Scifi movies are illusions. Believing a god will protect you against a disease is a delusion. Believing ancient Hebrew myths are real is a delusion.
 
Back
Top Bottom