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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

I've gotta be honest, your total indifference to credibility fascinates me.
Huh? Seems totally preoccupied with the (supposed lack of) credibility of anti fascism media. It’s only his own credibility about which he seems unconcerned. I find that logical; why be concerned about that which does not exist?
He is obviously not being paid to be credible, but rather to parrot the Pootey Party Line (if he’s paid at all).
 
I've gotta be honest, your total indifference to credibility fascinates me.
Huh? Seems totally preoccupied with the (supposed lack of) credibility of anti fascism media. It’s only his own credibility about which he seems unconcerned. I find that logical; why be concerned about that which does not exist?
He is obviously not being paid to be credible, but rather to parrot the Pootey Party Line (if he’s paid at all).
Yeah, I should have clarified that. It's his indifference to his own credibility that fascinates me.
 
I've gotta be honest, your total indifference to credibility fascinates me.
Huh? Seems totally preoccupied with the (supposed lack of) credibility of anti fascism media. It’s only his own credibility about which he seems unconcerned. I find that logical; why be concerned about that which does not exist?
He is obviously not being paid to be credible, but rather to parrot the Pootey Party Line (if he’s paid at all).
Yeah, I should have clarified that. It's his indifference to his own credibility that fascinates me.
That’s easily explained if he has nothing invested in it.
 
I've gotta be honest, your total indifference to credibility fascinates me.
Huh? Seems totally preoccupied with the (supposed lack of) credibility of anti fascism media. It’s only his own credibility about which he seems unconcerned. I find that logical; why be concerned about that which does not exist?
He is obviously not being paid to be credible, but rather to parrot the Pootey Party Line (if he’s paid at all).
Yeah, I should have clarified that. It's his indifference to his own credibility that fascinates me.

The important thing is controlling the narrative, not coming off as sincere or credible. If they can get people just talking about what they want everyone to talk about, it doesn't have to be convincing. It just has to become the focus of discussion. The topic itself will draw people into debating what would otherwise be treated as too absurd to consider worthy of discussion. QAnon is a superb example of how the technique works. It is so absurdly outrageous that the press can't stop marveling that they can't stop talking about it. Repeatedly claiming that the Bucha atrocity was faked ends up attracting more attention than just about anything else that has happened since that event, including the fact that Russia's renewed attack in the Donbas hasn't made much progress.
 
Some historical trivia. Tensions were always high during the Cold War. A lot of us on both sides during those times are alive and well with views from opposing sides.

I was and am still strongly anti-communist. I imagine there are many in Russia strangely anti-American.



Mathias Rust (born 1 June 1968)[1] is a German aviator known for his flight that ended with a landing near Red Square in Moscow on 28 May 1987. A teenage amateur pilot, he flew from Helsinki, Finland, to Moscow, being tracked several times by Soviet Air Defence Forces and civilian air traffic controllers, as well as Soviet Air Force interceptor aircraft. The Soviet fighters did not receive permission to shoot him down, and his aeroplane was mistaken for a friendly aircraft several times. He landed on Bolshoy Moskvoretsky Bridge, next to Red Square near the Kremlin in the capital of the Soviet Union.

Rust said he wanted to create an "imaginary bridge" to the East, and that his flight was intended to reduce tension and suspicion between the two Cold War sides.[2][3]

Rust's flight through a supposedly impenetrable air defence system had a great effect on the Soviet military and led to the dismissal of many senior officers, including Minister of Defence Marshal of the Soviet Union Sergei Sokolov and the Commander-in-Chief of the Soviet Air Defence Forces, former World War II fighter ace pilot Chief Marshal Alexander Koldunov. The incident aided Mikhail Gorbachev in the implementation of his reforms, by allowing him to dismiss numerous military officials opposed to his policies. Rust was sentenced to four years in a general-regime labour camp for violation of border crossing and air traffic regulations, and for provoking an emergency situation upon his landing. After 14 months in prison, he was pardoned by Andrei Gromyko, the Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, and released.[2][3]



Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (KE007/KAL007)[note 2] was a scheduled Korean Air Lines flight from New York City to Seoul via Anchorage, Alaska. On September 1, 1983, the South Korean airliner servicing the flight was shot down by a Soviet Sukhoi Su-15 interceptor. The Boeing 747 airliner was en route from Anchorage to Seoul, but owing to a navigational mistake made by the KAL crew the airliner deviated from its original planned route and flew through Soviet prohibited airspace around the time of a U.S. aerial reconnaissance mission. The Soviet Air Forces treated the unidentified aircraft as an intruding U.S. spy plane, and destroyed it with air-to-air missiles, after firing warning shots which were probably not seen by the KAL pilots.[2] The Korean airliner eventually crashed in the sea near Moneron Island west of Sakhalin in the Sea of Japan. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, including Larry McDonald, a United States Representative from Georgia. The Soviet Union found the wreckage under the sea two weeks later on September 15, and found the flight recorders in October, but this information was kept secret until 1992.

The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident,[3] but later admitted shooting down the aircraft, claiming that it was on a MASINT spy mission.[4] The Politburo of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union said it was a deliberate provocation by the United States[5] to probe the Soviet Union's military preparedness, or even to provoke a war. The US accused the Soviet Union of obstructing search and rescue operations.[6] The Soviet Armed Forces suppressed evidence sought by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) investigation, such as the flight recorders,[7] which were released ten years later, after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[8]

The incident was one of the tensest moments of the Cold War and resulted in an escalation of anti-Soviet sentiment, particularly in the United States.

As a result of the incident, the United States altered tracking procedures for aircraft departing from Alaska. In addition, the incident was one of the most important events that prompted the Reagan administration to allow worldwide access to the United States' Global Positioning System (GPS).[9][10]
 
I was and am still strongly anti-communist. I imagine there are many in Russia strangely anti-American.
That's a confusing statement. You must mean that you are strongly anti Russian.
Steve's view of world politics assumes not much has changed since the last time he was paying attention - around the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The Russians are Commies; Russia is shorthand for the USSR; And communism is defined neatly as 'anything that law abiding, true blue white American suburbanites dislike'.

All true patriotic Americans have to hate Russia, because the communist system is evil and cruel. And if you hate someone's country, they are duty bound to hate yours.

Apparently.

That today's Russia is worthy of hatred just serves as proof positive that nothing has changed.
 
The Wagner Group, Putin's favorite band of fascist attack dogs, has been active in over 30 countries, besides Ukraine. A half dozen are active in African countries. Most recently, they have been accused of atrocities in Africa that are similar to those in Ukraine--murder, torture, looting--especially in the Central African Republic (CAR). The government there has apparently employed them to spread oppression and terrorize the local population into obedience.

BBC article based on Human Rights Watch report:

Russian mercenaries behind Central African Republic atrocities - HRW


Al-Jazeera:

Russian mercenaries are Putin’s ‘coercive tool’ in Africa

 
That's just in: Ukraine accused Hungary of planning annexation of parts of Ukraine and put Victor Orban on "Enemy of the Ukraine" (kill) list. They have not done the same with Poland yet even though Poland was much more active in their semi-trasparrent attempts to annex what they think belongs to them. Difference is that Hungary opposes military aid to Ukraine, whereas Poland is most rabid supporter of that.
By the way, German President is not on the Kill List yet, but he has good chances
 
In other News, CNN admitted they and US government are lying to you.
Well, actually not to you, you are just collateral damage of their lying to ....... wait for it..... wait for it ...... Putin. They are lying to Putin as a part of information warfare.
Yep, that's what they said. Target of their lying is Putin.

So you people here were informed by the CNN that they (CNN) are full of shit. But this is for a good cause ..... to overthrow Putin.

Americans are amazing.
 
The Russian government is just using misinformation to prove how the West uses misinformation.
LOL, pretty ironic, considering my above post about CNN admitting lying.
And, there is a good Mearsheimer talk about that, long story short, US does it way more and better. You are the case in point.
 
One Bundestag member took offence and suggested deporting ukrainian ambassador.
For calling Shultz sausage that is.
Unfortunately russian top diplomat (Lavrov) is also did bad by mentioning conspiracy theory about Hitler having some Jewish heritage. That was very dumb.
 
That's just in: Ukraine accused Hungary of planning annexation of parts of Ukraine and put Victor Orban on "Enemy of the Ukraine" (kill) list. They have not done the same with Poland yet even though Poland was much more active in their semi-trasparrent attempts to annex what they think belongs to them. Difference is that Hungary opposes military aid to Ukraine, whereas Poland is most rabid supporter of that.
By the way, German President is not on the Kill List yet, but he has good chances

Nope, barbos is reporting Russian right wing disinformation again. This one is circulating in Hungary, right wing news sources, and, of course, Russia. Ukraine did not accuse Orban of planning to annex parts of Ukraine, nor is there any mention of Poland that I can find in connection with this story. Orban's name was put on a "kill list" on an ultranationalist Ukrainian web site call  Myrotvorets. That's all. It was created in Luhansk in 2014 and had ties to the Ukrainian SBU security services in the past. The Ukrainian government per se does not manage or control the list, and the mainstream media in Europe and the US have not lent any credence to this story.

See, for example,

Hungarian PM's Name Appears on Ukrainian "Enemies" List

 
About canadian general. Apparently (coming from russian news) canadian news sources started talking about it and saying that he is most likely arrested in Russia. Name is Trevor Cadie. French last name I am not sure about spelling.

Yep, google confirms that canadians are talking about it.
Plus google says there are/were apparently 3 NATO generals at AzovSteel.
That's good, we can get Alaska back for that :)
I doubt we can get California for any amount of NATO generals :(

Someone here was counting russian generals lost and making conclusions.
How about counting NATO generals lost?
 
About canadian general. Apparently (coming from russian news) canadian news sources started talking about it and saying that he is most likely arrested in Russia. Name is Trevor Cadie. French last name I am not sure about spelling.

Yep, google confirms that canadians are talking about it.
Plus google says there are/were apparently 3 NATO generals at AzovSteel.
That's good, we can get Alaska back for that :)
I doubt we can get California for any amount of NATO generals :(

Someone here was counting russian generals lost and making conclusions.
How about counting NATO generals lost?

It is too early to tell whether any Western generals were captured in Mariupol. There is a sketchy report so far that one Canadian general has been captured: Trevor Kadier.

See: Canadian General Kadie captured in Mariupol and transferred to Moscow?

But this is a report on a Serbian (pro-Russia) news site, and it is far from confirmed at this point.

We also know that Russia resurrected an earlier false claim that a US general, Lt. Gen. Roger L. Cloutier Jr., was captured in Mariupol. They also claimed that he was captured in Ukraine on April 4.

See: Fact check: U.S. general refutes rumor that Russian forces captured him in Mariupol

So, again, we see that barbos has been exposed to a constant barrage of disinformation, which he posts here without sources or any way for us to verify the information. What we do know is that the Russian news media puts out a constant stream of this crap. Some of it contains half-truths. Some of it is just disinformation made up out of whole cloth. A warning flag should be the fact that these stories are not being corroborated in the free Western press, which they normally would be regardless of whether they were good or bad news for Ukraine. Barbos only sees a stream of pro-Russia propaganda and automatically rejects anything printed in the Western press. Putin supporters are not all that different from Trump supporters, apparently.
 
About canadian general. Apparently (coming from russian news) canadian news sources started talking about it and saying that he is most likely arrested in Russia. Name is Trevor Cadie. French last name I am not sure about spelling.

Yep, google confirms that canadians are talking about it.
Plus google says there are/were apparently 3 NATO generals at AzovSteel.
That's good, we can get Alaska back for that :)
I doubt we can get California for any amount of NATO generals :(

Someone here was counting russian generals lost and making conclusions.
How about counting NATO generals lost?

It is too early to tell whether any Western generals were captured in Mariupol. There is a sketchy report so far that one Canadian general has been captured: Trevor Kadier.

See: Canadian General Kadie captured in Mariupol and transferred to Moscow?

But this is a report on a Serbian (pro-Russia) news site, and it is far from confirmed at this point.

We also know that Russia resurrected an earlier false claim that a US general, Lt. Gen. Roger L. Cloutier Jr., was captured in Mariupol. They also claimed that he was captured in Ukraine on April 4.

See: Fact check: U.S. general refutes rumor that Russian forces captured him in Mariupol

So, again, we see that barbos has been exposed to a constant barrage of disinformation, which he posts here without sources or any way for us to verify the information. What we do know is that the Russian news media puts out a constant stream of this crap. Some of it contains half-truths. Some of it is just disinformation made up out of whole cloth. A warning flag should be the fact that these stories are not being corroborated in the free Western press, which they normally would be regardless of whether they were good or bad news for Ukraine. Barbos only sees a stream of pro-Russia propaganda and automatically rejects anything printed in the Western press. Putin supporters are not all that different from Trump supporters, apparently.
Very much agree with you. To me Barbos's posts really just parrot what he hears on Russian TV. But it's interesting and valuable to hear what is being claimed on Russian TV. It's shocking to see rational smart people who are so easily fooled. Its scary really. As I've stated many times, my mother is very smart and rational (well, she claims that she is rational!). She was one of the first women minority engineers in her field. And as an American, she has access to the full spectrum of news. And yet she would tell you that Trump won the election and that aliens forced Clinton to host child sex parties to harvest their pituitary glands. People are easily fooled.

Separate issue: but May 9 will be pivotal date. I'm hearing signals that Putin may finally start to draw down on his invasion. Maybe he'll declare victory, and send his troops home. Or maybe he'll declare full on war with the west and will escalate. If so, Finland and Sweden will for sure join NATO on May 12. This week is very important to the future of Europe.
 
As I've stated many times, my mother is very smart and rational (well, she claims that she is rational!). She was one of the first women minority engineers in her field. And as an American, she has access to the full spectrum of news. And yet she would tell you that Trump won the election and that aliens forced Clinton to host child sex parties to harvest their pituitary glands. People are easily fooled.
Your mother has a lot of company. In my humble amateurish opinion this constitutes clinical, diagnosable, self-destructive, bipolar behavior. I don't know what else to call it. We see it everywhere.

/derail
 
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Very much agree with you. To me Barbos's posts really just parrot what he hears on Russian TV.
Is there some reason for this selective inability to process information?
I have told you million times. I don't watch Russian TV at all. It's boring and repetitive, and garbage as far as entertainment concerned. I can get 100 times better entertainment from youtube.
I had been watching CNN and occasionally BBC to keep my english at apparently C2 level. But they left when they realized that they could be criminally charged for fakes. Now, I only watch ViaSat history and others like NatGeo. Few other channels I watched left Russia as well. Assholes!

You all, on the other hand, parrot CNN garbage which they admitted to be lies.
CNN admitted they are lying. Do you even realize what it means?
CNN lies to to create impression that Putin is losing and Ze is winning.
They think that Putin is watching them. Ze is watching for sure (reminds you anyone ?), but Putin is unlikely.
 
The Russian government is just using misinformation to prove how the West uses misinformation.
LOL, pretty ironic, considering my above post about CNN admitting lying.
And, there is a good Mearsheimer talk about that, long story short, US does it way more and better. You are the case in point.
If CNN did so you should quite easily post a link to that. Why haven't you? Is it because you were told that CNN lied by your propaganda media?
 
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