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Is the GOP worth saving?

Elixir

Elixir

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Sorry for the long C&P
Friend of a friend posted this exactly one year ago, and the question is still hanging out there in neon.

"Another BRILLIANT piece by my friend Thom Hartman (Columnist, historian and Radio Host). Please read and understand that the GOP is not worth saving – AND THAT IT IS A PARTY TAKEN OVER BY INTERNATIONAL CRIMINALS.​
​
“Liz Cheney is most likely wrong. The GOP is now so deeply embedded with the international criminal class that it’s probably not worth saving.​
“For 40 years the GOP has been a peripheral but important part of the international criminal class; Donald Trump pushed the Party fully into its embrace while trying to drag the entire country with him.​
“Now that Liz Cheney’s rebellion has spilled it all out in the open, and their lies, deceptions and criminality are irrefutable, some people, particularly in the media, seem shocked. They shouldn’t be.​
“Ever since the Reagan Revolution, the Republican Party has been the place where pollution poisoners, rip-off bankers, pharmaceutical hustlers, fossil-fuel thieves, climate deniers, asbestos and tobacco barons, real estate fraudsters, and tax cheats go to find the protections they need to continue operating.​
“Donald Trump, a real estate fraudster and serial criminal himself, even put Steve Mnuchin, the so-called “Foreclosure King” (who should’ve been prosecuted by California’s then-Attorney General Kamala Harris and sent to prison), in charge of the entire federal government’s pile of money.​
“He put the head of ExxonMobil, the company that’s been funding climate denialism and lying to the American people since the 1980s, in place as our Secretary of State.​
He put a billionaire who Forbes, for G-d’s sake, called a “grifter” in charge of our Commerce Department.​
Trump even tried to make America an open and public part of the dictator’s club by making nice with international criminals like the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Russia, Brazil and Hungary, arguing that the US is the moral equivalent of autocratic, oligarch-run nations. It reflected his desire to move the US from “the moral equivalent” of such countries to actually joining the club by ending democracy and making himself an autocrat (see Jan 6th).​
"Few in the GOP even blinked. Crooks in our midst? Making common cause with international criminals? It’s just normal. It’s the “big tent” Republican Party.​
​
<Edited to remove copyright infringement.>​
 
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What is there to save, even? What would be left if you stripped away the corruption, grifting, and race-baiting?
 
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I think the real issue is that this corrupt, white Christian nationalist, theocratic party may end up pushing the US into an autocracy. No. We're not there yet. The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped? It's not looking too hopeful right now.
 
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
 
Elixir said:
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right, but since I live in a state where MTG is in office and Herschel Walker is currently ahead of Warnock in the polls, it's hard for me to be optimistic. Walker is a lot like Trump, corrupt, no political experience and a history of being accused of assaulting or harassing women. It's hard for me to understand how people like him are able to suck so many people into their cults.
 
southernhybrid said:
Elixir said:
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right, but since I live in a state where MTG is in office and Herschel Walker is currently ahead of Warnock in the polls, it's hard for me to be optimistic. Walker is a lot like Trump, corrupt, no political experience and a history of being accused of assaulting or harassing women. It's hard for me to understand how people like him are able to suck so many people into their cults.
Click to expand...
It is because they wish to be him, and know they will only ever get the chance if they play ball. They want a crack at being the fascists.
 
GA may be a lost cause this November. Maybe not, but it looks pretty bad from here. There are other house and Senate races that could hold surprises. But I am feeling rather fatalistic about the future of the USA overall.
 
If history has taught us anything, whatever party the fascists in America find the most useful and easy to infiltrate is the one that needs to be saved. Yesterday it was the democrats, today it's the republicans, tomorrow it will be the democrats once more.
 
Elixir said:
GA may be a lost cause this November. Maybe not, but it looks pretty bad from here. There are other house and Senate races that could hold surprises. But I am feeling rather fatalistic about the future of the USA overall.
Click to expand...
I haven't totally given up. I even have my Stacey yard sign out and I bought one for my neighbor. I'm just not that optimistic that she will win, despite her being far more intelligent and able to do a good job of governing compared to her opponent.

One thing that worries me about Georgia is the stupid law that allows anyone to question someone else's right to vote. One very Republican trending county had 13000 voters questioned by some nutty source, during our early primary voting. Luckily, the judge threw out the objections, and surprisingly, the judge was appointed by Trump. I just wonder how many nasty Republicans are going to try and deny some of their neighbors the right to vote. That law was one of the most idiotic, potentially dangerous ones passed by the Georgia legislature. I'm worried that this will scare some people from voting this fall. Some of the newer voters are easily intimidated. Even in Georgia, I've never seen anything like this before. But, we have a huge number of those damn Yankee liberals ;) relocating here, so maybe there is hope. It's all about turnout, along with how far the attempts to suppress the vote goes.
 
southernhybrid said:
Elixir said:
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right, but since I live in a state where MTG is in office and Herschel Walker is currently ahead of Warnock in the polls, it's hard for me to be optimistic. Walker is a lot like Trump, corrupt, no political experience and a history of being accused of assaulting or harassing women. It's hard for me to understand how people like him are able to suck so many people into their cults.
Click to expand...
It is incredible how being related to football helped Tuberville win his Senate seat and then Walker to maybe win his. Walker played in Georgia for college... a few decades ago, and he didn't even live in the state now... and yet, the football, along with talking like Trump, is enough to get him over the hump. Every person in the Senate doesn't need to be a lawyer, but some level of experience would be nice, and Walker seems to provide virtually no positive experience in life other than football. Of course, Trump had even less, and he became President.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
southernhybrid said:
Elixir said:
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right, but since I live in a state where MTG is in office and Herschel Walker is currently ahead of Warnock in the polls, it's hard for me to be optimistic. Walker is a lot like Trump, corrupt, no political experience and a history of being accused of assaulting or harassing women. It's hard for me to understand how people like him are able to suck so many people into their cults.
Click to expand...
It is incredible how being related to football helped Tuberville win his Senate seat and then Walker to maybe win his. Walker played in Georgia for college... a few decades ago, and he didn't even live in the state now... and yet, the football, along with talking like Trump, is enough to get him over the hump. Every person in the Senate doesn't need to be a lawyer, but some level of experience would be nice, and Walker seems to provide virtually no positive experience in life other than football. Of course, Trump had even less, and he became President.
Click to expand...
In some ways it's proof that even the white trash aristocracy of small town USA has a hope of becoming a bonafide fascist figure.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
southernhybrid said:
Elixir said:
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right, but since I live in a state where MTG is in office and Herschel Walker is currently ahead of Warnock in the polls, it's hard for me to be optimistic. Walker is a lot like Trump, corrupt, no political experience and a history of being accused of assaulting or harassing women. It's hard for me to understand how people like him are able to suck so many people into their cults.
Click to expand...
It is incredible how being related to football helped Tuberville win his Senate seat and then Walker to maybe win his. Walker played in Georgia for college... a few decades ago, and he didn't even live in the state now... and yet, the football, along with talking like Trump, is enough to get him over the hump. Every person in the Senate doesn't need to be a lawyer, but some level of experience would be nice, and Walker seems to provide virtually no positive experience in life other than football. Of course, Trump had even less, and he became President.
Click to expand...
I agree. I saw a guy interviewed about why he was supporting Walker. All the man could talk about was Walker's football experience. Was he even aware of the crooked things that Walker had done, or as you mentioned, the fact that he hasn't even lived in Georgia for decades? This one even shocked me. Trump at least had a weird, charisma that attracted people who didn't know his crooked history. But what has Walker got, other than football experience. He's far ahead in the polls of all the other Republicans who are running in the primaries. Warnock needs to stop being so nice and make a case against Walker. Unfortunately, Warnock didn't have any political experience either and it gave me no joy voting for a preacher, but he's kept his religion out of politics and he does at least want to help the poor and middle class. I've seen his commercials. They are rather bland.

In addition to the Republican idiots currently in the Senate, just add Dr. Oz and Walker to the mix. Oz hasn't lived in Pa either. He's lived in New Jersey for decades. I guess people don't care about that anymore.

Somebody, give me some hope!
 
southernhybrid said:
Elixir said:
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right, but since I live in a state where MTG is in office and Herschel Walker is currently ahead of Warnock in the polls, it's hard for me to be optimistic. Walker is a lot like Trump, corrupt, no political experience and a history of being accused of assaulting or harassing women. It's hard for me to understand how people like him are able to suck so many people into their cults.
Click to expand...
It's not the candidates.

Trump is a yankee carpet bagger from NYC and Walker is black. No Southern white Christian nationalist should give either one of these people a second thought, much less a vote.

But both of these men have been on TV and if southern white Christian Nationalists love anything more than lynching people, leading state endorsed prayer in schools, and basing foreign policy on preparations for the Second Coming; it's star f***ing. Celebrity lends validity and credibility to what is gullibility and chicanery.

They don't have independent reality on their side, so they'll side with reality TV.
 
That'd be right-wing celebrity, right? I'm sure Jon Voight could win the Senate race in Georgia, but I'm not expecting Cynthia Nixon to go far, just on celebrity status in Georgia.

It seems odd, the right-wing actually hates celebrities and Hollywood. Always crapping on about it. But... if that celebrity is strong for gun-rights... wants to ban abortion... is Donald Trump, all of a sudden their feelings about celebrities change. Dixie Chicks... banned from the South. Kid Rock? Let's make him a Senator!
 
AthenaAwakened said:
southernhybrid said:
Elixir said:
southernhybrid said:
The question isn't can it be saved? The question is, can it be stopped?
Click to expand...

Maybe the best way of stopping it is to save it from itself.
I see little cracks opening, where the tiny seeds of the former GOP are starting to sprout and fracture the corrupt edifice of the Party of Trump. If Trump manages to get enough blatantly terrible candidates to win nominations, and then most of them lose... I think there would be a real sea-change. Of course that has yet to happen, but it could... at least on paper.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right, but since I live in a state where MTG is in office and Herschel Walker is currently ahead of Warnock in the polls, it's hard for me to be optimistic. Walker is a lot like Trump, corrupt, no political experience and a history of being accused of assaulting or harassing women. It's hard for me to understand how people like him are able to suck so many people into their cults.
Click to expand...
It's not the candidates.

Trump is a yankee carpet bagger from NYC and Walker is black. No Southern white Christian nationalist should give either one of these people a second thought, much less a vote.

But both of these men have been on TV and if southern white Christian Nationalists love anything more than lynching people, leading state endorsed prayer in schools, and basing foreign policy on preparations for the Second Coming; it's star f***ing. Celebrity lends validity and credibility to what is gullibility and chicanery.

They don't have independent reality on their side, so they'll side with reality TV.
Click to expand...
Welcome Back... I haven't seen you for a LONG time!
 
Politesse said:
Derec said:
Jarhyn said:
No. It is not.
Click to expand...

Politesse said:
What is there to save, even?
Click to expand...

All praise the glorious one party rule!
Click to expand...
So, "being one of two parties" is the only virtue you can think of for the Republican party?
Click to expand...
I personally expect the Democrats and the Republicans to re-sort into two new parties after such happens.

It's not like the folks who were awful at the top have any excuse, and the people all below that, of them some will find new homes in the reformed party/parties, and the remainder -- the disciples of bad faith -- will find themselves seeking to hide in the woodwork until people forget that they were there and we start the merry-go-round again, unless of course there were some laws passed to prevent gerrymandering and to allow proportional representation to happen rather than FPTP.

Of course, th latter would mean they would have to actually start governing, so it may be unlikely, and the corruptive efforts would eventually drag one side or the other away from their values.
 
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