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Politics Are Water Wars in the Near Future?

southernhybrid

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I realized that there are serious shortages of water globally, but until I read the recent article from the NYTimes, I was not aware of the severity of the problem in our neighbor to the South. It also made me aware how much of the Western US may be within a decade or less of suffering from severe water shortages. I will try to link an editorial that discusses that, when I have time.

This is a gifted link.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/03/...H69U16jWYe5HC18PchQReC2rc6sQ8w&smid=url-share

The numbers underlining the crisis are startling: In July, eight of Mexico’s 32 states were experiencing extreme to moderate drought, resulting in 1,546 of the country’s 2,463 municipalities confronting water shortages, according to the National Water Commission.

By mid-July, about 48 percent of Mexico’s territory was suffering drought, according to the commission, compared with about 28 percent of the country’s territory during the same period last year.
While tying a single drought to human-caused climate change requires analysis, scientists have no doubt that global warming can alter rainfall patterns around the world and is increasing the likelihood of droughts.
Across the border in recent years, most of the Western half of the United States has been in drought, with conditions ranging from moderate to severe.For the region, this period is now the driest two decades in 1,200 years.

“Here you have to chase the water,” said Claudia Muñiz, 38, whose household is often without running water for up to a week. “In a moment of desperation, people explode,” she said about the violence that has flared as people fight over what water there is.

Imagine trying to put on the tap, and it's totally dry, so you have to wait in line for the government to allow you to fill your buckets, assuming you can even find buckets.

The crisis is particularly acute in Monterrey, one of Mexico’s most important economic hubs and where the entire metropolitan area of about five million people is affected by drought, according to officials. Some neighborhoods in Monterrey have been without water for 75 days, leading many schools to close before the scheduled summer break.

The situation in the city has gotten so dire, a visiting journalist could not find any drinking water for sale at several stores, including a Walmart.
Buckets, too, are scarce at local stores — or being sold at astronomically high prices — as Monterrey’s residents scrape together containers to collect water supplied by government trucks sent to the driest neighborhoods. Some residents clean out trash cans to ferry water home, children struggling to help carry what can amount to 450 pounds of water.
While Monterrey’s poorest neighborhoods are the hardest hit, the crisis is affecting everyone, including the wealthy.

It's effecting even the wealthy. Wow!
 
Here's another gifted piece that explains the water shortages in the Western US, assuming anyone is interested.

nytimes.com/2022/08/04/opinion/drought-climate-colorado-river.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DFDm4eiOMNAo6B_EGKabBketQzw3GQQN5EOaMiAfd1yuhFNkBqDhOpvJae3pQ

About 40 million people rely on the Colorado River as it flows from Colorado to Mexico. But overuse and climate change have contributed to its reservoirs drying up at such a rapid rate that the probability of disastrous disruptions to the deliveries of water and hydroelectric power across the Southwest have become increasingly likely. Now the seven states that depend on the river must negotiate major cuts in water use by mid-August or have them imposed by the federal government.

Those cuts are merely the beginning as the region struggles to adapt to an increasingly arid West. The rules for operating the river’s shrinking reservoirs expire in 2026, and those seven states must forge a new agreement on water use for farmers, businesses and cities.

What’s worse, all of this is happening in a region that is one of the fastest growing in the United States, even as the signs of an impending crisis become more pronounced. Outside of Las Vegas, Lake Mead, the nation’s largest reservoir by volume, fed by the Colorado and three smaller tributaries, is nearly three-quarters empty and at its lowest level since April 1937, when it was first being filled. The 22-year downward trend is “a stark illustration of climate change and a long-term drought that may be the worst in the U.S. West in 12 centuries,” according to NASA’s Earth Observatory program.

Does anyone who lives in the Western US have any concerns about not having enough water, in the coming years?
 
Water will be available, they need to adjust their sources. Desalination and reclaimed wastewater will likely be two of the bigger ones. It'll cost money, but honestly, let's make one thing clear, the Government spent a fortune on water works projects in the SW to making living there possible for the last 80 or so years. Time is due for the next investment.

Personally, my favorite plan is the one from people who think it is hydraulically possible to send Mississippi River water to the SW.
 
I remember San Diego got it's act together after a water shortage in the mid-nineties. I believe they were reliant on a single source then. They diversified sources, spent $1B on a desalination plant, and provided incentives to rip out lawns. They claim to be good to go until 2045. The precious stuff cost a bit more, like 25% more but hey, what price water, right?
 
My back yard last evening. This is a super dry hillside. We got almost 2” of rain in less than an hour. That water is flowing at dangerous speeds.
1659707304605.jpeg
 
Here's another gifted piece that explains the water shortages in the Western US, assuming anyone is interested.

nytimes.com/2022/08/04/opinion/drought-climate-colorado-river.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DFDm4eiOMNAo6B_EGKabBketQzw3GQQN5EOaMiAfd1yuhFNkBqDhOpvJae3pQ

About 40 million people rely on the Colorado River as it flows from Colorado to Mexico. But overuse and climate change have contributed to its reservoirs drying up at such a rapid rate that the probability of disastrous disruptions to the deliveries of water and hydroelectric power across the Southwest have become increasingly likely. Now the seven states that depend on the river must negotiate major cuts in water use by mid-August or have them imposed by the federal government.

Those cuts are merely the beginning as the region struggles to adapt to an increasingly arid West. The rules for operating the river’s shrinking reservoirs expire in 2026, and those seven states must forge a new agreement on water use for farmers, businesses and cities.

What’s worse, all of this is happening in a region that is one of the fastest growing in the United States, even as the signs of an impending crisis become more pronounced. Outside of Las Vegas, Lake Mead, the nation’s largest reservoir by volume, fed by the Colorado and three smaller tributaries, is nearly three-quarters empty and at its lowest level since April 1937, when it was first being filled. The 22-year downward trend is “a stark illustration of climate change and a long-term drought that may be the worst in the U.S. West in 12 centuries,” according to NASA’s Earth Observatory program.

Does anyone who lives in the Western US have any concerns about not having enough water, in the coming years?

My back yard last evening. This is a super dry hillside. We got almost 2” of rain in less than an hour. That water is flowing at dangerous speeds.
View attachment 39731
Dang. Hope that you and home are safe. But this ironically highlights the real bad issue regarding droughts: the heavy rains after. The droughts cause very dry land. When land is dry, it doesn't absorb water as easily. It pours rain, causing flash floods, that rips out all the vegetation and natural water barriers, making the drought even worse after the heavy rains. Secondly, the drought damaged land which can't contain heavy rain as easily, prevents underground natural aquifers from filling up. It's a vicious circle.
 
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Water will be available, they need to adjust their sources. Desalination and reclaimed wastewater will likely be two of the bigger ones. It'll cost money, but honestly, let's make one thing clear, the Government spent a fortune on water works projects in the SW to making living there possible for the last 80 or so years. Time is due for the next investment.

Personally, my favorite plan is the one from people who think it is hydraulically possible to send Mississippi River water to the SW.
I agree that the government will do everything possible to improve the water supply, but is anything being done as of now? Hoe long does it take to build a desalination plant?

I knew that waters shortages will be a problem in the future, but until I read about what's going on in about 2/3rds of Mexico, I didn't give it that much thought. And, considering the disarray in our own country right now, it's hard to be optimistic about the future.
 
https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2020/04/28/uniting-combat-water-shortages-across-country

A clean and reliable water supply is critical to our nation’s future, but freshwater is a finite resource.

Through innovation, science and proven conservation practices, USDA’s Natural Resources Conservation Service is working to develop new tools and technologies to help farmers, ranchers and private forest landowners conserve and protect our natural resources, like our freshwater supply.

Water reuse has become a rapidly expanding tool in our conservation toolbox. It reclaims water from a variety of sources then treats it, allowing that water to be reused for agriculture and irrigation, potable water supplies, groundwater replenishment, industrial processes, and other uses. Water reuse can provide alternatives to tapping into precious water supplies, helping to enhance water security, sustainability and resilience.

Water reuse sounds like a good idea, but is it being done yet anywhere? Does anyone know much about any plans for reusing water? I think I saw something about this a few years ago on a science tv show, but I don't think it's being done on a large scale, at least not yet.
 
The second water inlet is now visible at hoover dam. The third inlet is at the bottom, but once the water level at lake mead gets below 895 feet water won't flow through the dam anymore. It is currently at 1050 feet.

Yes, I'm worried. We're installing artificial turf and local water heaters near the sinks and showers. I am hopeful for desalinization plants but haven't heard about any plans recently.

aa
 
I found an article about what England is trying to do in order to prevent huge water shortages, as this is a global problem. It mentions that desalinization is extremely expensive and it causes a huge carbon output. I'm not at all knowledgable about these things, which is why I've been looking for information. Excuse me for posting so many links. I feel certain that if global water shortages should be come severe, it could cause chaos between countries and a huge rise in immigrants trying to escape the countries that are impacted the worst.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17600062

The above article discusses some "radical" plans to reduce water usage and improve water availability.

Desalination remains a "very expensive, very power hungry" process, according to Jacob Tompkins, managing director of Waterwise, an organisation focused on decreasing water consumption.
"We can always engineer water, we can build desalination plants all around the coast, but the cost and carbon impact would be huge."
Water is "heavy and incompressible, so if you start pumping it uphill, you pay lots of money", Green adds.
Even after the water has been purified there's the remaining challenge of what to do with the leftover salt.
"We'd have to get rid of all the salt, would it be dropped back into the sea?" Tompkins says.
The WWF also warns large-scale seawater desalination could endanger marine life and is calling for further research into the tolerance of marine organisms and ecosystems to higher-salinity and brine waste.
 
Almost every article I've read mentions that people who live in areas where water shortages are likely in the near future, need to reduce their own water consumption by at least 25%. Lawns need to be replaced for starters, as AA has already done.

We never have had to water our lawn but I know that those in the Western part of the country usually need to water the lawn to keep it from dying. No? I'd let my lawn die before I considered watering it. Would most people be willing to do that without being forced. One doesn't need to use artificial turf, as there are many plants that grow naturally in desert like conditions.
 
Almost every article I've read mentions that people who live in areas where water shortages are likely in the near future, need to reduce their own water consumption by at least 25%. Lawns need to be replaced for starters, as AA has already done.

We never have had to water our lawn but I know that those in the Western part of the country usually need to water the lawn to keep it from dying. No? I'd let my lawn die before I considered watering it. Would most people be willing to do that without being forced. One doesn't need to use artificial turf, as there are many plants that grow naturally in desert like conditions.
We considered succulents, but then your yard just becomes a big decoration. You can at least use artificial turf for activities.

aa
 
It'll cost money, but honestly, let's make one thing clear, the Government spent a fortune on water works projects in the SW to making living there possible for the last 80 or so years. Time is due for the next investment.
^ This.

There's no shortage of water. There's a shortage of infrastructure, and a shortage of the will to spend money on public works.

The only reason most of these places are inhabited and inhabitable in the first place is that a shitload of infrastructure was put in place, at great expense, by governments that wanted to encourage the development of these regions as viable places to live.

The lack of political will to maintain, repair, replace or upgrade that infrastructure isn't due to atmospheric changes, it's due to the rightward drift of the political climate in the USA, and the failure by right wing anti-government loons to recognise that the vast majority of their life support systems came from government in the first place, and not from god, nature, or the unaided toil of their parents and grandparents.
 
https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2020/04/28/uniting-combat-water-shortages-across-country

A clean and reliable water supply is critical to our nation’s future, but freshwater is a finite resource.

Through innovation, science and proven conservation practices, USDA’s Natural Resources Conservation Service is working to develop new tools and technologies to help farmers, ranchers and private forest landowners conserve and protect our natural resources, like our freshwater supply.

Water reuse has become a rapidly expanding tool in our conservation toolbox. It reclaims water from a variety of sources then treats it, allowing that water to be reused for agriculture and irrigation, potable water supplies, groundwater replenishment, industrial processes, and other uses. Water reuse can provide alternatives to tapping into precious water supplies, helping to enhance water security, sustainability and resilience.

Water reuse sounds like a good idea, but is it being done yet anywhere? Does anyone know much about any plans for reusing water? I think I saw something about this a few years ago on a science tv show, but I don't think it's being done on a large scale, at least not yet.
It is stepping up. I think the bigger issue would be hydraulics to get the treated water back to the top of the system.
 
We may have a shortage of water in SoCal right now but on the bright side, we do have a multi billion dollar high speed train that goes nowhere. :thumbsup: Thanks governor Newsom.
 
We may have a shortage of water in SoCal right now but on the bright side, we do have a multi billion dollar high speed train that goes nowhere. :thumbsup: Thanks governor Newsom.
"Don't blame me, I only do everything possible to block spending on infrastructure!"

:rolleyesa:

You fucking deserve the crapstorm you are about to endure. You are so blissfully unaware of your dependence on critical systems that you feel smugly gleeful at seeing them deteriorate, because it gives you an excuse to deride those who are desperately trying to save you from your own ignorance and arrogance.

If you were on the Titanic, you would be walking around with a sledgehammer, smashing holes in the lifeboats, to demonstrate to everyone how they wouldn't stand up to an iceberg either, and that they should therefore blame the White Star Line for their predicament.

You are not a part of the solution; You are a part of the problem. And you are proud of that fact, which makes you a serious danger to everyone around you.
 
We may have a shortage of water in SoCal right now but on the bright side, we do have a multi billion dollar high speed train that goes nowhere. :thumbsup: Thanks governor Newsom.
"Don't blame me, I only do everything possible to block spending on infrastructure!"

:rolleyesa:

You fucking deserve the crapstorm you are about to endure. You are so blissfully unaware of your dependence on critical systems that you feel smugly gleeful at seeing them deteriorate, because it gives you an excuse to deride those who are desperately trying to save you from your own ignorance and arrogance.

If you were on the Titanic, you would be walking around with a sledgehammer, smashing holes in the lifeboats, to demonstrate to everyone how they wouldn't stand up to an iceberg either, and that they should therefore blame the White Star Line for their predicament.

You are not a part of the solution; You are a part of the problem. And you are proud of that fact, which makes you a serious danger to everyone around you.
Isn’t the problem in CA that those in authority are incompetent? Not really about the amount spent on infrastructure? ‘cause that’s been a lot.
 
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