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Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

Job is a good story.

Job is an all around good guy with a good family and doing well finacinaly.

Suddenly for no apparent reason shit rains down on him and he is ruined.

Moral: Shit happens to good people?

I read somewhere Job was probably part of a lost set of teaching materials, and it was probably metaphor for Jewish captivity or assimilation.

The biblical stories likely had a context as metaphor in the time they were written, mening woud have been obvious.

In my generation was a saying 'to John Wayne' a situation. A negative. Later came Rambo.
 
Elixir said:
Learner said:
Good well now you know.
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I already knew.
I was introduced to a handful of religions quite early in life, learner.
I learned that they all professed to offer divine acces to peace and love, and are willing to kill each other to prove it.
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Who are those you're talking about, who would be willing to kill each other to 'prove this thing'? Assuming you are putting all political agendas aside. Is it a common thing among Christians, like those on this forum, myself included? That's if you're not generalising these characteristics, making the suggestion that this is the norm for 'all' believers.

Elixir said:
I learned that they are all supported by cheap trickery in fancy robes. They force their rubes to swallow miracles and impossible things, in order to hold their minds hostage.
And I learned that religions scoff at the better-practiced hands of honest magicians, who actually produce what religions only promise, and demonstrate the ease with which those who are eager for a sky-daddy or other shortcuts around reality, can be sold an impossible bill of goods
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The same norm, the same verbal essence for centuries. that 'scoffers' and magic cults feel against God.

Elixir said:
Learner said:
But it was God who created the physics.
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Or not. What you have there is a barenaked assertion. No gods are in evidence, so if one did “create the physics”, the reasonable question is “SO WHAT?” The function of a god whose presence is the same in all regards as it’s absence, is simply to make you feel good. If it does that, you’re welcome to it.
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So what? Just giving a little more context, that the difference between entities that perform magic, even though wondrous when observed, still have limitations - and the difference of a creator of physical matter or energies who has no limits, e.g. to be performing miracles. God 'doesn't do magic', is the point, responding to the erroneous notion that says contrary. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not..but at least get the biblical concept right.
Elixir said:
But if it doesn’t do that for others, proselytizing is stupid and harmful, generating hate and wars.
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Watched the news recently? Quite a few wars happening lately, but I understand your pov.
 
Learner said:
The same norm, the same verbal essence for centuries. that 'scoffers' and magic cults feel against [MY*] God [cult]
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… and Allah, Shiva, Odin, Zuess, Xanthe and ten thousand other God cults.
What differentiates one from another is who invented and named it, and little else.

*fify
 
"Well, I'VE never killed anyone. Therefore, all religions are benign."
 
Yes Leaner, we are toy generalizing as you infer.

We are drawing conclusions from personal experience, the long history of region, and modern times.

Right now Israel is slipping into the traditional pattern of relhious nationaism.

Since the 19th century tere has been a see saw battle by historians to teach religion in public schools.

There are tolerant Christians, but from my experince that is a minority. Gos[el based Chrtans deve an exclusivity from the allged sayings of Jesus and a mansdte to convert the world.

Some of the worse of it it in North American were the Catholics and Protestants foced indoctrination of Ntave American kds into Christianity. Literally taking kids from parents and putting them in schools. It went on through the 70s.

Kids who lived through it are alive today ad telling their stories.

Without legal restraint it would be in public schols.

Learner condier that if Christianity became dominant as they once were culturally your version of Chrtianity might not be acceprable. Freedom of religion in the 1st Amendment was meant to prvent tyrany of majority over minority Chrtiastans.
 
James Brown said:
"Well, I'VE never killed anyone. Therefore, all religions are benign."
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If you're killing people then it ain't 'loving your neighbour or your enemies', as Jesus commands, is it now.
It's the doctrine that matters...not the religions, in which for each 'individual', it's 'by their fruit you can tell them'..
.. who's going against the doctrine.
 
Well, maybe. There's certainly no shortage in the Bible of God's people putting their enemies to the sword. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust are just a handful of examples of religious folks following what they believed was the right and true doctrine. That's the great thing about standards--there are so many to choose from.

But as the man said, "99% of Christians are giving the rest of us a bad name."
 
Learner,

At best you can only say I do not do harm in the name of relgion, and ignore everything that is done on the name of relgion.

Christians cite many things and ignore many things in the bible as a whole.

The OT Hebrew god was a vnegful god. Lebicus woud be the inspred word of god which Jesyus did not change.

Would yiu invite a gay couple neighbor over for dinner or go into their home? Same with an unmarried fornicating couple? Or a Jewsih, Muslim, or Himdu hpme? Atheist?

Religious morality is by definition discriminatory. You go by ancient writings by unknown authrs, I do not believe therefore I am in the wrong.

I belive we are all free to beve as we will, and I do not doscriminate vased on just someone's belifs. I discriminate based on behavior.

I would not invite Evangelcals over for dinner, I would not want to be preached to as they do. If yiu can not respect what I believe in turn than I will avoid you if I can.

If yio can resect my pozition wthoit acrimny I willlisten to what yiu say in abamced discusin in the real world. That is near impossible for Chrtians to do.

Not so much for Muslims or Jews I have known here in the USA. They do not impose or proselytize.

It is the generally inoffensive unintrusive Jews who are the targets of violence by white Christians.
 
James Brown said:
Well, maybe. There's certainly no shortage in the Bible of God's people putting their enemies to the sword. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust are just a handful of examples of religious folks following what they believed was the right and true doctrine. That's the great thing about standards--there are so many to choose from.
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Have you come across those statistics which shows more people died in WW2 than all the religious wars combined?
Now that is not necessary an argument I need use as a non-religious war.. instead I consider the everyday view, that wars overall, are political conflicts.

James Brown said:
But as the man said, "99% of Christians are giving the rest of us a bad name."
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No.. atheists make up the number it's 99% of Christians gone wrong, which is favourable to fit your (plural) narrative. Ignore the ones who aren't like that. We know what you're (plural) are like.

Many people (not all) everyday who have done wrong like those in prisons become religious and change their ways.
 
Learner said:
excreationist said:
James Brown said:
Well, maybe. There's certainly no shortage in the Bible of God's people putting their enemies to the sword.
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And sometimes God commanded it - e.g.
Deuteronomy 20:16-18 ("...Kill everything that breathes in those cities...")
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Your zeal for "immoral" God is understandable... the bible would be in conflict with the simulation hypothesis.
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Though that passage seems immoral to me many Christians would think it is 100% compatible with God being perfectly moral and loving. I think our possible simulation seems indistinguishable from a non-supernatural reality so it isn't compatible with a 100% historical Bible.
 
excreationist said:
Learner said:
excreationist said:
James Brown said:
Well, maybe. There's certainly no shortage in the Bible of God's people putting their enemies to the sword.
Click to expand...
And sometimes God commanded it - e.g.
Deuteronomy 20:16-18 ("...Kill everything that breathes in those cities...")
Click to expand...
Your zeal for "immoral" God is understandable... the bible would be in conflict with the simulation hypothesis.
Click to expand...
Though that passage seems immoral to me many Christians would think it is 100% compatible with God being perfectly moral and loving. I think our possible simulation seems indistinguishable from a non-supernatural reality so it isn't compatible with a 100% historical Bible.
Click to expand...
I say it's safe to say, God has 'good reason' and 'there's more to it, than you can see, read or interpret, on the surface'. Why's that?

Because... Jesus 'knows the details and interpretations of those scriptures' better than any man, who may also have similar opinions like yours. Jesus is the guideline IOW, He gives no warnings or condemnation of these scriptures - you see.. Jesus validates Moses! 'Faith/ Trust in Jesus' as the old saying goes.. is meaningful on several levels.
 
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steve_bank said:
Job is a good story.

Job is an all around good guy with a good family and doing well finacinaly.

Suddenly for no apparent reason shit rains down on him and he is ruined.

Moral: Shit happens to good people?
Click to expand...
What happened to Job happens to other good people? This a false implication, not a common tradition.

Job is a special case, he trusted God and God 'knew' he could meet the challenge. In this case.. good things multiplied' for a good man.

steve_bank said:
I read somewhere Job was probably part of a lost set of teaching materials, and it was probably metaphor for Jewish captivity or assimilation.
Click to expand...
That particular scripture to be used as teaching material, I agree with that bit
steve_bank said:
The biblical stories likely had a context as metaphor in the time they were written, mening woud have been obvious.
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I don't think it would 'all' be too obvious back then, reason being, those who were opposed to God or being anti-christ, wouldn't know what hidden parts, should be corrupted or removed. (Like In Daniel 12: 9 - 11, Daniel didn't understand his prophecy, he was told that this was for the last generations to understand)

No problems with that now in regards to corruption or missing verses... since we have copies of all the translations today, in all sorts of literature mediums. Change in the doctrines will be noticed.

All that is required is for people to study them.
steve_bank said:
In my generation was a saying 'to John Wayne' a situation. A negative. Later came Rambo.
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Thanks for sharing.
 
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Learner said:
excreationist said:
Learner said:
excreationist said:
James Brown said:
Well, maybe. There's certainly no shortage in the Bible of God's people putting their enemies to the sword.
Click to expand...
And sometimes God commanded it - e.g.
Deuteronomy 20:16-18 ("...Kill everything that breathes in those cities...")
Click to expand...
Your zeal for "immoral" God is understandable... the bible would be in conflict with the simulation hypothesis.
Click to expand...
Though that passage seems immoral to me many Christians would think it is 100% compatible with God being perfectly moral and loving. I think our possible simulation seems indistinguishable from a non-supernatural reality so it isn't compatible with a 100% historical Bible.
Click to expand...
I say it's safe to say, God has 'good reason' and 'there's more to it, than you can see, read or interpret, on the surface'. Why's that?

Because... Jesus 'knows the details and interpretations of those scriptures' better than any man, who may also have similar opinions like yours. Jesus is the guideline IOW, He gives no warnings or condemnation of these scriptures - you see.. Jesus validates Moses! 'Faith/ Trust in Jesus' as the old saying goes.. is meaningful on several levels.
Click to expand...
Like I said many Christians think the "kill everything that breathes" passage is 100% compatible with God being perfectly moral and loving. If you'd like could you explain why it was necessary for God to order the killing of everything that breathes - including babies and animals...
 
DBT said:
I don't see how the order to kill 'everything that breathes' can be interpreted in a good or moral way.
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It's similar to God flooding the earth though - though this time localised to the promised land.
 
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