Search results

1. Demystifying Determinism

You've misunderstood. That's not what the authors were attempting to do. Neither determinism nor indeterminism can ever be definitively 'proven'. This is explained clearly and at length in the paper we've discussed that I linked to a couple of days ago. Butterfly effect: The existence of...
2. Demystifying Determinism

I'm afraid the discussion there is way outside my area of expertise. And so would I, but not in certain very specific situations.
3. Demystifying Determinism

I assume you mean the claim that certain predictions are not possible from within a deterministic system. All you'd have to do is create a closed deterministic system containing a predictor and counter-predictor (a subsystem which will always respond counter to the prediction). If the...
4. Demystifying Determinism

Apologies. I was simply attempting to add clarity (for anyone else who might read this exchange). There was no intention to misrepresent you. No, it's simply a statement about what can be predicted in principle given a theoretical external observer not part of the universe. If it's of no...
5. Demystifying Determinism

I agree completely (I think!). I'm talking specifically about the situation where we're attempting to predict the response of a subsystem and that subsystem uses the prediction to do the opposite. As for the rest of your post I'm afraid it's well over my pay grade, but thanks for trying.
6. Demystifying Determinism

Because it gives a very detailed explanation of why the kind of paradox you described in your previous post shows us that our intuition that deterministic systems can be totally predicted from within that system is incorrect. It's not clear to me what you're saying here. It's true that that...
7. Demystifying Determinism

Absolute predictability is only possible by an observer external to our universe. Embedded predictability (absolute predictability within our universe) is not possible. It's explained here: Determinism and the Paradox of Predictability This is not possible (explained in the link above). Of...
8. Demystifying Determinism

This implies that you believe that under determinism it is possible to to determine ahead of time. Do you? And why would it be a problem for free will? Of course, but I'm afraid I don't see what it has too do with what I wrote.
9. Demystifying Determinism

Sure, but what you need to do is explain how the introduction of random influences results in free will whereas purely deterministic influences do not. In other words how do we act intentionally based on reasons (free will) if our actions are even partially driven by random events. This would...
10. Demystifying Determinism

From Libertarianism (metaphysics): I don't think you'll find many atheists in that group. It's quite clearly anecdotal. Either an event is the result of a deterministic cause or it isn't. Are you suggesting there's something in between?

I'm not convinced DBT will find this persuasive.

I may be mistaken but I suspect that DBT would agree with everything you describe here except for your use of the word "choice". DBT simply refuses to accept that the word "choice" can be used to describe a deterministic process. It's a semantic dispute. DBT doesn't seem to realise that...

Well it really was a truly remarkable claim coming from someone who incessantly employs 'neuroscience' (inappropriately) as justification for his views and who regularly accuses his interlocutors of failing to understand determinism. Whilst possibly not the most diplomatic response, I can...
14. Demystifying Determinism

The crucial difference is that libertarians go further and say that we do have free will and that the universe is indeterministic. libertarian free will predominantly (but not exclusively) originates from religious ideas. Just Google "libertarian free will" and see the number of...
15. Demystifying Determinism

That's not what I said. You claimed that genuine choices (i.e. free will) are only possible "If the world is NOT deterministic". It was this claim that I suggested was uncommon among atheists. It's essentially the 'luck objection' to libertarian free will. There's a jargon-free explanation...
16. Demystifying Determinism

It appears that you are an advocate of libertarian free will (not common among atheists). The problem with libertarian (agent self-determined) free will is that it's difficult to see how an agent's reasons can reliably be tethered to an agent's actions in an indeterministic environment.
17. Loyalty is deeply immoral

Loyalty certainly can manifest itself in this way (and when it does it's morally repugnant). However I'm not at all sure that loyalty necessarily implies this for most people.
18. Demystifying Determinism

It follows from what you've been saying. You said that determinism does not allow choice. Therefore when you say you "have a few choices available" then you must be assuming non-determinism. This leaves two possibilities. Either your choice is not reliably determined (random) or you are...
19. Demystifying Determinism

You've avoided answering my point - "what you mean by choice is a non-determined (random/uncaused) outcome. ". Is this really what you think most people mean by 'choice'?
20. Demystifying Determinism

Presumably you're saying that there's no choice under determinism (because determinism allows only one outcome). It follows therefore that what you mean by choice is a non-determined (random/uncaused) outcome. I don't think that's what most people who use the word mean by 'choice'.