2 year old shoots 1 year old brother dead

[fast]

I have a set of Gunvaults. These have a keypad on top that I enter a coded sequence by touch and it pops open. I also have a large gun vault that means anything inside is locked up and unaccessible to anybody but me. It works well and allows immediate access to a gun. There are no children here, but it there were, guns would not be accessible to them. It keeps my weapons out of the hands of burglars also. There is no need to leave a gun accessible to children. There have been attempts made to mandate gun owners have a way to secure their weapons. These attempts always set the gun nutters off big time. Military grade stupid. Leaving a gun around where a small child can get at it is stupid. An accident waiting to happen. A gun in Mommy's purse and the purse where a child can reach it is stupid. A gun under a pillow is stupid.

Very well said!

 

[Lunawalk]

Of course we don't know what happened but I am sure the family is devastated. To them this is no joke. but a tragic accident. Indents happen all the time all over the country. The kids saw a gun and think it a toy. If the adults are going to have guns in the home they need to be out of sight of they happen to see one they need gun education.

Gun education? What on earth is that? Does an adult need a class to learn that guns should not be left within reach of a child?

The phrase "thought it was a toy" implies that a child would know to not pick up a real gun, and the cause of this devastating tragedy is a mistake in identity by a toddler. A toddler does not mistake something for a toy. A toddler thinks everything is a toy and if it can be picked up, it's a very convenient toy.

Now that we have established that fault lies with a two year old's faulty judgment, we can write this off as a case where the system malfunctioned, but it's not a system failure.

This brings me back to a point I have made, many times. The death of this child is not a tragedy. A tragedy is "an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe." This is something people will avoid and do whatever necessary to prevent happening. The death of a one year old at the hands of a gun wielding two year old is as inevitable as rain, after the two year old picks up the gun.

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

 

[Underseer]

Of course we don't know what happened but I am sure the family is devastated. To them this is no joke. but a tragic accident. Indents happen all the time all over the country. The kids saw a gun and think it a toy. If the adults are going to have guns in the home they need to be out of sight of they happen to see one they need gun education.

Gun education? What on earth is that? Does an adult need a class to learn that guns should not be left within reach of a child?

The phrase "thought it was a toy" implies that a child would know to not pick up a real gun, and the cause of this devastating tragedy is a mistake in identity by a toddler. A toddler does not mistake something for a toy. A toddler thinks everything is a toy and if it can be picked up, it's a very convenient toy.

Now that we have established that fault lies with a two year old's faulty judgment, we can write this off as a case where the system malfunctioned, but it's not a system failure.

This brings me back to a point I have made, many times. The death of this child is not a tragedy. A tragedy is "an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe." This is something people will avoid and do whatever necessary to prevent happening. The death of a one year old at the hands of a gun wielding two year old is as inevitable as rain, after the two year old picks up the gun.

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

Yes. With a little education, there are no consequences to bringing guns into the home, therefore we should get guns into the homes of every Republican household. So that they can be more free. There is definitely no threat to the members of the household if you educate people.

 

[Bronzeage]

Of course we don't know what happened but I am sure the family is devastated. To them this is no joke. but a tragic accident. Indents happen all the time all over the country. The kids saw a gun and think it a toy. If the adults are going to have guns in the home they need to be out of sight of they happen to see one they need gun education.

Gun education? What on earth is that? Does an adult need a class to learn that guns should not be left within reach of a child?

The phrase "thought it was a toy" implies that a child would know to not pick up a real gun, and the cause of this devastating tragedy is a mistake in identity by a toddler. A toddler does not mistake something for a toy. A toddler thinks everything is a toy and if it can be picked up, it's a very convenient toy.

Now that we have established that fault lies with a two year old's faulty judgment, we can write this off as a case where the system malfunctioned, but it's not a system failure.

This brings me back to a point I have made, many times. The death of this child is not a tragedy. A tragedy is "an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe." This is something people will avoid and do whatever necessary to prevent happening. The death of a one year old at the hands of a gun wielding two year old is as inevitable as rain, after the two year old picks up the gun.

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

 

[ZiprHead]

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

Reminds me of the time my wife and I stopped to visit a friend of hers. Little neighbor kid, probably 4 or 5, was playing in his front yard next to the driveway I pulled into. He asked me if I was a stranger. Obviously too young to understand the concepts of the protections his parents tried to impart into him.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

Ya, I remember a few years back I was doing some work in the basement and my five year old started chasing the dog around with a drywall knife. The concept that there's a difference between that and chasing it around with a nerf bat wasn't something he could process at that age. Everything is a toy to explore and play with.

If you're going to have gun ownership be so ubiquitous and you also know that there will be a certain percentage of gun owners who will not properly secure their firearms, you're essentially saying that the unnecessary death of children is an acceptable trade off to have for the ability to own guns so easily. But, since you're willing to make that trade off, as long as the parents are charged with manslaughter and the surviving child is put in with a foster family who'll be better equipped to take care of him, that's the best which can be expected.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

Ya, I remember a few years back I was doing some work in the basement and my five year old started chasing the dog around with a drywall knife. The concept that there's a difference between that and chasing it around with a nerf bat wasn't something he could process at that age. Everything is a toy to explore and play with.

If you're going to have gun ownership be so ubiquitous and you also know that there will be a certain percentage of gun owners who will not properly secure their firearms, you're essentially saying that the unnecessary death of children is an acceptable trade off to have for the ability to own guns so easily. But, since you're willing to make that trade off, as long as the parents are charged with manslaughter and the surviving child is put in with a foster family who'll be better equipped to take care of him, that's the best which can be expected.

Are you consistent though? If they leave out Tide pods and the 1 year old dies from eating one do you charge them with manslaughter? You must baby proof a house for all the injury or death items in a house, a gun is just one of them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

Ya, I remember a few years back I was doing some work in the basement and my five year old started chasing the dog around with a drywall knife. The concept that there's a difference between that and chasing it around with a nerf bat wasn't something he could process at that age. Everything is a toy to explore and play with.

If you're going to have gun ownership be so ubiquitous and you also know that there will be a certain percentage of gun owners who will not properly secure their firearms, you're essentially saying that the unnecessary death of children is an acceptable trade off to have for the ability to own guns so easily. But, since you're willing to make that trade off, as long as the parents are charged with manslaughter and the surviving child is put in with a foster family who'll be better equipped to take care of him, that's the best which can be expected.

Are you consistent though? If they leave out Tide pods and the 1 year old dies from eating one do you charge them with manslaughter?

If a Tide Pod is left out, that is a mistake. Leaving, not a gun, but a loaded gun out is gross negligence.

- - - Updated - - -

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

Reminds me of the time my wife and I stopped to visit a friend of hers. Little neighbor kid, probably 4 or 5, was playing in his front yard next to the driveway I pulled into. He asked me if I was a stranger. Obviously too young to understand the concepts of the protections his parents tried to impart into him.

Well maybe if you hadn't offered him candy to go into your van...

- - - Updated - - -

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

This wasn't even about securing. This gun was loaded.

 

[ZiprHead]

Reminds me of the time my wife and I stopped to visit a friend of hers. Little neighbor kid, probably 4 or 5, was playing in his front yard next to the driveway I pulled into. He asked me if I was a stranger. Obviously too young to understand the concepts of the protections his parents tried to impart into him.

Well maybe if you hadn't offered him candy to go into your van...

Nah, a little to young for my taste. Sex at eight is when it's great.

 

[Lunawalk]

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

So you're saying that the only way they learn is the hot stove example? Until adults have the sense to secure their guns kids with continue to die needlessly?

 

[Lunawalk]

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

Yes. With a little education, there are no consequences to bringing guns into the home, therefore we should get guns into the homes of every Republican household. So that they can be more free. There is definitely no threat to the members of the household if you educate people.

Does that include Democratic gun owners too?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Without knowing anything about the incident, beyond the title of the thread, I know that someone left a loaded gun within reach of a toddler. I also know that a gun which is not easily available when it is needed, is a worthless gun. Anyone who thinks they might need a gun(no judgment on this), is not going to have a useless gun.

This is the paradox. A useful gun is accessible to anyone who can reach it. We can blame the adults for negligence, but the true culprit is the need for a useful gun.

I do agree that it's the heart of the problem but I don't believe there is no solution.

Rather, what we need is kid-secure but rapid access storage. We have things along these lines that have a finger pattern on them (so you can easily find the right place by touch) and you push the buttons in a certain order to cause it to open. From what I've seen of such things the combinations aren't robust enough, a kid who plays with it enough might get lucky. I don't think that's insurmountable, though. I would go farther and put a fingerprint scanner in them, if it detects an authorized print it opens immediately even without the combination.

Unfortunately, the left is obsessed with going far beyond this, making guns effectively useless for self defense. Of course this goes over like a lead balloon with the gun crowd.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have a set of Gunvaults. These have a keypad on top that I enter a coded sequence by touch and it pops open. I also have a large gun vault that means anything inside is locked up and unaccessible to anybody but me. It works well and allows immediate access to a gun.

Yes, this is the sort of storage that should be mandated if there are kids about. (And from reading their website it looks like they solved the number of combinations issue.)

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Without knowing anything about the incident, beyond the title of the thread, I know that someone left a loaded gun within reach of a toddler. I also know that a gun which is not easily available when it is needed, is a worthless gun. Anyone who thinks they might need a gun(no judgment on this), is not going to have a useless gun.

This is the paradox. A useful gun is accessible to anyone who can reach it. We can blame the adults for negligence, but the true culprit is the need for a useful gun.

I do agree that it's the heart of the problem but I don't believe there is no solution.

Rather, what we need is kid-secure but rapid access storage. We have things along these lines that have a finger pattern on them (so you can easily find the right place by touch) and you push the buttons in a certain order to cause it to open. From what I've seen of such things the combinations aren't robust enough, a kid who plays with it enough might get lucky. I don't think that's insurmountable, though. I would go farther and put a fingerprint scanner in them, if it detects an authorized print it opens immediately even without the combination.

Unfortunately, the left is obsessed with going far beyond this, making guns effectively useless for self defense. Of course this goes over like a lead balloon with the gun crowd.

These things give you a limited amount of tries (3), then lock up for 5 minutes or more depending on model. Trying to brute force it is not going to happen. Some models set of an alarm and light up a tamper light to make it possible to see if somebody has been trying to crack the safe.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

Some years ago there was an interesting experiment. Some 10 year old children were given a course in gun safety. Then left alone in a room where a gun was accessible. Despite just have been given a good class in not playing with guns, most of them made a bee line to the gun and played with it.

This was expected. Lectures and courses on gun safety don't work with 10 year old boys.

 

[Underseer]

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

Yes. With a little education, there are no consequences to bringing guns into the home, therefore we should get guns into the homes of every Republican household. So that they can be more free. There is definitely no threat to the members of the household if you educate people.

Does that include Democratic gun owners too?

Democrats are all terrorists and gangster thugs. You don't want to give weapons to people that you know are gangsters and thugs, do you?

- - - Updated - - -

Gun education for kids is impressing on them that any gun they see is dangerous. They are not toys. guns are just going to be in homes with kids . It giving them the tools to deal with the situation. Of course this is a tragedy of caused great suffering and distress to the family. A young life was lost by totally preventable means. All because some adults don't have the sense to secure their guns.

It's strange, but some of the best ideas in the world, simply don't work. The idea that a child, especially those around 7 and younger, can be taught about the danger of a gun, is a myth. "Danger" is an advanced intellectual concept. When they have the capacity is not really set. If this is doubtful, put a 16 year old boy in a Mustang 5.0 and watch the results. When we get as to young as five, there is no warning possible that will stop a boy from picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. The idea of "my child knows better" is idiocy, but it allows people with guns to think their guns are safe and their children will not be shot.

Some years ago there was an interesting experiment. Some 10 year old children were given a course in gun safety. Then left alone in a room where a gun was accessible. Despite just have been given a good class in not playing with guns, most of them made a bee line to the gun and played with it.

This was expected. Lectures and courses on gun safety don't work with 10 year old boys.

You're just saying that because you're a gun-grabber who wants Republican households to be less free! Freedom-loving rightists know better than to listen to your Fake News!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Some years ago there was an interesting experiment. Some 10 year old children were given a course in gun safety. Then left alone in a room where a gun was accessible. Despite just have been given a good class in not playing with guns, most of them made a bee line to the gun and played with it.

This was expected. Lectures and courses on gun safety don't work with 10 year old boys.

Because it was the forbidden fruit. The answer isn't to simply tell them to stay away, but to grant controlled access.

 

[bilby]

Adults don't have guns in their house when they have children. Adults don't think guns are an effective means of defence. Adults don't keep guns loaded or unsecured.

Of course, a lot of people can reach a very advanced age without being adults.

 

[Rhea]

Some years ago there was an interesting experiment. Some 10 year old children were given a course in gun safety. Then left alone in a room where a gun was accessible. Despite just have been given a good class in not playing with guns, most of them made a bee line to the gun and played with it.

This was expected. Lectures and courses on gun safety don't work with 10 year old boys.

Because it was the forbidden fruit. The answer isn't to simply tell them to stay away, but to grant controlled access.

Can you give us some background on your knowledge of 10yo psychology? Something that would make you more expert than the people doing the study? I won't hold my breath. And don't think to try to bamboozle anyone with the idea that your personal childhood makes for expertise into the field of all 10yos.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Without knowing anything about the incident, beyond the title of the thread, I know that someone left a loaded gun within reach of a toddler. I also know that a gun which is not easily available when it is needed, is a worthless gun. Anyone who thinks they might need a gun(no judgment on this), is not going to have a useless gun.

This is the paradox. A useful gun is accessible to anyone who can reach it. We can blame the adults for negligence, but the true culprit is the need for a useful gun.

I do agree that it's the heart of the problem but I don't believe there is no solution.

Rather, what we need is kid-secure but rapid access storage. We have things along these lines that have a finger pattern on them (so you can easily find the right place by touch) and you push the buttons in a certain order to cause it to open. From what I've seen of such things the combinations aren't robust enough, a kid who plays with it enough might get lucky. I don't think that's insurmountable, though. I would go farther and put a fingerprint scanner in them, if it detects an authorized print it opens immediately even without the combination.

Unfortunately, the left is obsessed with going far beyond this, making guns effectively useless for self defense. Of course this goes over like a lead balloon with the gun crowd.

There ARE gun safes with fingerprint scanners on the market now.
http://www.gunvault.com/biometrics.html

No, "the left" is doing no such thing. It is just common sense to keep Guns safe and locked up so children and thieves cannot easily get access to them. Lock them up when you are away, have it under a pillow at night when you are at home if you want. It is not rocket science. A good basic Gun Vault safe is $122.00.

Losing a child or arming a burglarizing thug need not happen.