2 year old shoots 1 year old brother dead

[Jimmy Higgins]

Without knowing anything about the incident, beyond the title of the thread, I know that someone left a loaded gun within reach of a toddler. I also know that a gun which is not easily available when it is needed, is a worthless gun. Anyone who thinks they might need a gun(no judgment on this), is not going to have a useless gun.

This is the paradox. A useful gun is accessible to anyone who can reach it. We can blame the adults for negligence, but the true culprit is the need for a useful gun.

I do agree that it's the heart of the problem but I don't believe there is no solution.

Rather, what we need is kid-secure but rapid access storage. We have things along these lines that have a finger pattern on them (so you can easily find the right place by touch) and you push the buttons in a certain order to cause it to open. From what I've seen of such things the combinations aren't robust enough, a kid who plays with it enough might get lucky. I don't think that's insurmountable, though. I would go farther and put a fingerprint scanner in them, if it detects an authorized print it opens immediately even without the combination.

Unfortunately, the left is obsessed with going far beyond this, making guns effectively useless for self defense. Of course this goes over like a lead balloon with the gun crowd.

I love how the gun lobby controls gun policy in America, but Loren always loves to mention how much to blame "the left" is.

Here is something really simple... make laws to keep the guns secure. If a child kills another child, then you can charge the gun owner for breaking the law.

Of course, the child is still dead... which kind of defeats the purpose of the law... ie... prevent death, not punish idiot.

Let idiots have guns and children will die.

You can have laws, you can have training, but idiots always think 'it won't happen to my family'. For fuck sakes, when my daughter was two, I wouldn't leave an uncovered drink unattended on a table!

Sorry kids, but Darwin is in effect, it isn't personal, you just have dumb parents and the result is no progeny.

 

[Malintent]

There's nothing in the Bill of Rights that says people have the right to children. So imposing strict regulations on who is allowed to have children, for what purpose, and with what training and qualifications, and further imposing licensing and registration conditions, plus strict rules on the safe and secure storage of any licenced and registered children, would seem to be the obvious solution.

I have said this for many years... but I never have been just kidding.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Without knowing anything about the incident, beyond the title of the thread, I know that someone left a loaded gun within reach of a toddler. I also know that a gun which is not easily available when it is needed, is a worthless gun. Anyone who thinks they might need a gun(no judgment on this), is not going to have a useless gun.

This is the paradox. A useful gun is accessible to anyone who can reach it. We can blame the adults for negligence, but the true culprit is the need for a useful gun.

I do agree that it's the heart of the problem but I don't believe there is no solution.

Rather, what we need is kid-secure but rapid access storage. We have things along these lines that have a finger pattern on them (so you can easily find the right place by touch) and you push the buttons in a certain order to cause it to open. From what I've seen of such things the combinations aren't robust enough, a kid who plays with it enough might get lucky. I don't think that's insurmountable, though. I would go farther and put a fingerprint scanner in them, if it detects an authorized print it opens immediately even without the combination.

Unfortunately, the left is obsessed with going far beyond this, making guns effectively useless for self defense. Of course this goes over like a lead balloon with the gun crowd.

There ARE gun safes with fingerprint scanners on the market now.
http://www.gunvault.com/biometrics.html

No, "the left" is doing no such thing. It is just common sense to keep Guns safe and locked up so children and thieves cannot easily get access to them. Lock them up when you are away, have it under a pillow at night when you are at home if you want. It is not rocket science. A good basic Gun Vault safe is $122.00.

Losing a child or arming a burglarizing thug need not happen.

Yeah, it looks like the GunVault products are up to what I was picturing. I've seen stuff before like it (brand unknown) that had too short a combination.

The problem is too many want "secure storage" to mean bolted to the building and able to stand off tools for some time. It's not about a reasonable compromise, it's about piling on as much as they possibly can.

 

[Malintent]

There ARE gun safes with fingerprint scanners on the market now.
http://www.gunvault.com/biometrics.html

No, "the left" is doing no such thing. It is just common sense to keep Guns safe and locked up so children and thieves cannot easily get access to them. Lock them up when you are away, have it under a pillow at night when you are at home if you want. It is not rocket science. A good basic Gun Vault safe is $122.00.

Losing a child or arming a burglarizing thug need not happen.

Yeah, it looks like the GunVault products are up to what I was picturing. I've seen stuff before like it (brand unknown) that had too short a combination.

The problem is too many want "secure storage" to mean bolted to the building and able to stand off tools for some time. It's not about a reasonable compromise, it's about piling on as much as they possibly can.

Maybe a fingerprint reader is right for you.
I've seen some interesting solutions that are completely hidden (part of a bed's headboard, or a shelf), and touch / fingerprint sensitive. I saw a video of one in use that was really cool.... you just touch a spot and the door springs open (if you have the correct fingerprint) and places the weapon directly in your hand... that particular one was like $1,000, but there are $200 ones with similar features.