A mysterious species related to humans has been discovered

[Potoooooooo]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/10/world/new-hominin-discovery-philippines-scn/index.html

Ancient bones and teeth found in Callao Cave in the Philippines have led to the discovery of a previously unknown species related to humans called Homo luzonensis, according to a new study. The fossils belonged to two adults and one child who lived between 50,000 and 67,000 years ago.

This time frame means luzonensis would have lived at the same time as Neanderthals, Denisovans, Homo sapiens and the small-bodied Homo floresiensis. Like other extinct hominins, luzonensis is more of a close relative than a direct ancestor.

 

[James Brown]

There used to be lots and lots of hominid species.

Now there is only one--home sapiens sapiens.

We have cultivated ourselves into a monoculture.

 

[steve_bank]

This sounds like an older story of a humanoid species found in q cave on a Pacific Island.

 

[lpetrich]

This sounds like an older story of a humanoid species found in q cave on a Pacific Island.

Homo floresiensis, found in a cave in Flores Island in eastern Indonesia.

 

[skepticalbip]

This sounds like an older story of a humanoid species found in q cave on a Pacific Island.

Homo floresiensis, found in a cave in Flores Island in eastern Indonesia.

Interestingly, the remains of the Homo floresiensis that were found are very similar to the description of the legendary Orang Pendek from the same general area of the world that people still claim to see occasionally.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

This sounds like an older story of a humanoid species found in q cave on a Pacific Island.

Homo floresiensis, found in a cave in Flores Island in eastern Indonesia.

Interestingly, the remains of the Homo floresiensis that were found are very similar to the description of the legendary Orang Pendek from the same general area of the world that people still claim to see occasionally.

Ebu Gogo comes to mind. No doubt these stories have a basis in reality.

Villagers speak of the small, hairy Ebu Gogo

 

[repoman]

Did this location need watercraft to be reached by these hominids at this time of the ice age?

 

[Politesse]

Did this location need watercraft to be reached by these hominids at this time of the ice age?

It did! And so did Flores. Here's a map:



Our human cousins were much more clever at a deeper time depth than we used to imagine. Sulawesi, also on the map, is also known to have been settled before 100,000 BP, though in that case (we think) by our own subspecies. The region known now as Indonesia is proving to be once again an important cradle for human expression. And it was, of course, in Java that the first non-sapiens hominin species was identified, proving with material evidence that Darwin et al had been justified in predicting the discovery of transitional forms.

 

[steve_bank]

Did this location need watercraft to be reached by these hominids at this time of the ice age?

It did! And so did Flores. Here's a map:

View attachment 21096

Our human cousins were much more clever at a deeper time depth than we used to imagine. Sulawesi, also on the map, is also known to have been settled before 100,000 BP, though in that case (we think) by our own subspecies. The region known now as Indonesia is proving to be once again an important cradle for human expression. And it was, of course, in Java that the first non-sapiens hominin species was identified, proving with material evidence that Darwin et al had been justified in predicting the discovery of transitional forms.

Along with god, evolution works in strange and mysterious ways beyond our comprehension.

Migration to Australia was once a puzzle. Now it looks like the water was low enough for propel to walk over. There was the land bridge from Asia to the Americas.

 

[Jokodo]

Did this location need watercraft to be reached by these hominids at this time of the ice age?

It did! And so did Flores. Here's a map:

View attachment 21096

Our human cousins were much more clever at a deeper time depth than we used to imagine. Sulawesi, also on the map, is also known to have been settled before 100,000 BP, though in that case (we think) by our own subspecies. The region known now as Indonesia is proving to be once again an important cradle for human expression. And it was, of course, in Java that the first non-sapiens hominin species was identified, proving with material evidence that Darwin et al had been justified in predicting the discovery of transitional forms.

Along with god, evolution works in strange and mysterious ways beyond our comprehension.

Migration to Australia was once a puzzle. Now it looks like the water was low enough for propel to walk over.

It doesn't look like that. The Map shows it doesn't.

 

[Politesse]

They would absolutely have to have had to cross open water to reach Australia, at least fifty or so miles of it. Impossible without a boat. And there's increasing evidence to suggest that it happened more than once. Certainly, this distribution around Indonesia predates the (currently believed) timeframe for the settlement of Australia by quite a margin. NatGeo put up a nice summary of the current mode of thinking about two years ago:

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/migration-to-australia/

There have been a wealth of new sites since then, also.

 

[steve_bank]

It was a NOVA show on generics and migration. That is how I membered it, I may have misinterpreted.

https://www.abroadintheyard.com/mapping-mankinds-trek-ancient-coastlines-land-bridges/

Beardless, it was demons red in the 50s-60s that the Atlantic could have been crossed from Africa with boots from ancient Egypt. essentially rafts. Same with crossing the Pacific from Asia and islands.

Thor Heyerdahl. Kon Tiki and Ra.

The are Pacific islander who today can navigate open ocean at night or overcast skies without any instrumentation. They do it by water temperature, water taste and smell, direction of waves and frequency, stars, and of course the sun. An ancient tradition.

Crossing to Australia would not be impossible. Human creativity existed without math and science,
Eskimos developed articulated frames for kayaks. Turns out the mechanical ordinance of the kayak is anti resonant to the typical period of the waves. Smooth's out travel.

Go back to bow and arrows and spin stabilized arrows using feathers.

 

[Politesse]

It was a NOVA show on generics and migration. That is how I membered it, I may have misinterpreted.

https://www.abroadintheyard.com/mapping-mankinds-trek-ancient-coastlines-land-bridges/

Beardless, it was demons red in the 50s-60s that the Atlantic could have been crossed from Africa with boots from ancient Egypt. essentially rafts. Same with crossing the Pacific from Asia and islands.

Thor Heyerdahl. Kon Tiki and Ra.

The are Pacific islander who today can navigate open ocean at night or overcast skies without any instrumentation. They do it by water temperature, water taste and smell, direction of waves and frequency, stars, and of course the sun. An ancient tradition.

Crossing to Australia would not be impossible. Human creativity existed without math and science,
Eskimos developed articulated frames for kayaks. Turns out the mechanical ordinance of the kayak is anti resonant to the typical period of the waves. Smooth's out travel.

Go back to bow and arrows and spin stabilized arrows using feathers.

It is important to distinguish between science and pseudoscience.

 

[steve_bank]

It was a NOVA show on generics and migration. That is how I membered it, I may have misinterpreted.

https://www.abroadintheyard.com/mapping-mankinds-trek-ancient-coastlines-land-bridges/

Beardless, it was demons red in the 50s-60s that the Atlantic could have been crossed from Africa with boots from ancient Egypt. essentially rafts. Same with crossing the Pacific from Asia and islands.

Thor Heyerdahl. Kon Tiki and Ra.

The are Pacific islander who today can navigate open ocean at night or overcast skies without any instrumentation. They do it by water temperature, water taste and smell, direction of waves and frequency, stars, and of course the sun. An ancient tradition.

Crossing to Australia would not be impossible. Human creativity existed without math and science,
Eskimos developed articulated frames for kayaks. Turns out the mechanical ordinance of the kayak is anti resonant to the typical period of the waves. Smooth's out travel.

Go back to bow and arrows and spin stabilized arrows using feathers.

It is important to distinguish between science and pseudoscience.

The scientific method.

Observe
2. Form hypothesis
3. Test hypothesis, accept or reject.
4. If rejected reformulate hypothesis and test...

We all do science in a general sense. Today formal science is math based but math is not required for science. Figuring out how to navigate by stars and water conditions is science. A bow and arrow is a machine.

Romans were brilliant engineers without any science as we have today.

Leering to control fire to do things was science.

Pseudo science is that which does not bear out testing but remains a belief or claim. Or is based on unsupportable hypotheses.

 

[Politesse]

It was a NOVA show on generics and migration. That is how I membered it, I may have misinterpreted.

https://www.abroadintheyard.com/mapping-mankinds-trek-ancient-coastlines-land-bridges/

Beardless, it was demons red in the 50s-60s that the Atlantic could have been crossed from Africa with boots from ancient Egypt. essentially rafts. Same with crossing the Pacific from Asia and islands.

Thor Heyerdahl. Kon Tiki and Ra.

The are Pacific islander who today can navigate open ocean at night or overcast skies without any instrumentation. They do it by water temperature, water taste and smell, direction of waves and frequency, stars, and of course the sun. An ancient tradition.

Crossing to Australia would not be impossible. Human creativity existed without math and science,
Eskimos developed articulated frames for kayaks. Turns out the mechanical ordinance of the kayak is anti resonant to the typical period of the waves. Smooth's out travel.

Go back to bow and arrows and spin stabilized arrows using feathers.

It is important to distinguish between science and pseudoscience.

The scientific method.

Observe
2. Form hypothesis
3. Test hypothesis, accept or reject.
4. If rejected reformulate hypothesis and test...

We all do science in a general sense. Today formal science is math based but math is not required for science. Figuring out how to navigate by stars and water conditions is science. A bow and arrow is a machine.

Romans were brilliant engineers without any science as we have today.

Leering to control fire to do things was science.

Pseudo science is that which does not bear out testing but remains a belief or claim. Or is based on unsupportable hypotheses.

It is not the abilities of the ancients that I am doubtful of.

You seem to accept whatever you read as true, regardless of source.

 

[lpetrich]

I remember reading about Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-Tiki expedition in my childhood. It was a good experiment in using an approximation of traditional Polynesian technology to travel across the Pacific Ocean. Thor Heyerdahl had a theory that at least some Polynesian people came from South America, and he attempted to demonstrate how plausible it was for them to do so. So he and some fellow adventurers built a balsa-wood raft in western South America and sailed it across the Pacific Ocean, ending in the Tuamotu Archipelago near Tahiti.

But genetic and linguistic evidence instead points to a western origin, in southern China. From there, people spread to Taiwan, then to the Philippines, then to Indonesia, then to New Guinea, and then eastward, reaching Tahiti and Hawaii and Rapa Nui (Easter Island) and New Zealand. Some Polynesian voyagers may have reached South America, but they do not seem to have built any lasting settlements there. They might have tried, but there were plenty of people already there, and they might have (1) decided to return to the islands that they came from, (2) become assimilated into the local population, or (3) become exterminated by the local population. (1) is what happened to the Vinland colony, and (2) is what likely happened to the Roanoke Colony, the one found deserted except for the word "CROATOAN" carved on a fencepost. I remember that detail from my childhood.

 

[lpetrich]

Here's some linguistic evidence: 1 to 10, courtesy of The Numbers List

[table="class:grid"]
[tr][td]Language[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]5[/td][td]6[/td][td]7[/td][td]8[/td][td]9[/td][td]10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tagalog (Philippines)[/td][td]isá[/td][td]dalawá[/td][td]tatló[/td][td]ápat[/td][td]limá[/td][td]ánim[/td][td]pitó[/td][td]waló[/td][td]siyám[/td][td]sampû[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Indonesian (Malay)[/td][td]satu[/td][td]dua[/td][td]tiga[/td][td]empat[/td][td]lima[/td][td]enam[/td][td]tujuh[/td][td]delapan[/td][td]sembilan[/td][td]sepuluh[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Malagasy (Madagascar)[/td][td]iráy[/td][td]róa[/td][td]télo[/td][td]éfatra[/td][td]dímy[/td][td]énina[/td][td]fíto[/td][td]válo[/td][td]sívy[/td][td]fólo[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Samoan[/td][td]tasi[/td][td]lua[/td][td]tolu[/td][td]fa[/td][td]lima[/td][td]ono[/td][td]fitu[/td][td]valu[/td][td]iva[/td][td]sefulu[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rapanui[/td][td]tahi[/td][td]rua[/td][td]toru[/td][td]ha[/td][td]rima[/td][td]ono[/td][td]hitu[/td][td]va’u[/td][td]iva[/td][td]’ahuru[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tahitian[/td][td]tahi[/td][td]piti[/td][td]toru[/td][td]maha[/td][td]pae[/td][td]ōno[/td][td]hitu[/td][td]va’u[/td][td]iva[/td][td]hō’e’ahuru[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Maori (New Zealand)[/td][td]tahi[/td][td]rua[/td][td]toru[/td][td]whā[/td][td]rima[/td][td]ono[/td][td]whitu[/td][td]waru[/td][td]iwa[/td][td]tekau[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hawaiian[/td][td]‘e-kahi[/td][td]‘e-lua[/td][td]‘e-kolu[/td][td]‘e-hā[/td][td]‘e-lima[/td][td]‘e-ono[/td][td]‘e-hiku[/td][td]‘e-walu[/td][td]‘e-iwa[/td][td]‘umi[/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[steve_bank]

The scientific method.

Observe
2. Form hypothesis
3. Test hypothesis, accept or reject.
4. If rejected reformulate hypothesis and test...

We all do science in a general sense. Today formal science is math based but math is not required for science. Figuring out how to navigate by stars and water conditions is science. A bow and arrow is a machine.

Romans were brilliant engineers without any science as we have today.

Leering to control fire to do things was science.

Pseudo science is that which does not bear out testing but remains a belief or claim. Or is based on unsupportable hypotheses.

It is not the abilities of the ancients that I am doubtful of.

You seem to accept whatever you read as true, regardless of source.

You mean the bible? You walked right into that one.

Not really. I am so skeptical as an engineer I doubted own work even after it did.

This is an formal forum in general. General speculations usually supported by some net references. For e this could be lunchtimes conversation with peers. If you were to face me across a conference room table on a professional issue that matters that would be a different matter..

For me all of this is recreation and helps keep me mentally active. I take it reassembly seriously but not too much. If I am wrong at times it matters not.

There are more serious and formal science forums if you want to see how that goes.

Science as a philosophy is a way of looking at reality. As to the 'the method' that goes back to Descartes and his writings on science centuries back. The outline is the general concept, but obviously is much more complicated in practice.

I am speaking from experience.

 

[lpetrich]

I'll compare Rapanui and Quechua, a western South American language.

[table="class: grid"]
[tr][td]Language[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]5[/td][td]6[/td][td]7[/td][td]8[/td][td]9[/td][td]10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rapanui[/td][td]tahi[/td][td]rua[/td][td]toru[/td][td]ha[/td][td]rima[/td][td]ono[/td][td]hitu[/td][td]va’u[/td][td]iva[/td][td]’ahuru[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Quechua[/td][td]huk[/td][td]ishkay[/td][td]kima[/td][td]chusku[/td][td]pitsqa[/td][td]hoqta[/td][td]qanchis[/td][td]puwaq[/td][td]isqun[/td][td]chunka[/td][/tr]
[/table]
Nothing in common.

Appendix:Austronesian Swadesh lists - Wiktionary
Appendix:Quechuan Swadesh list - Wiktionary
No resemblance there either.