A universal truth about work

[Philos]

Folks,

The other day I was talking with a young Portuguese girl in a nearby market town. She was helping her parents to run a small cafe, and they did not have such good English; hers was perfect.

Anyway, I mentioned that I was once involved in student/work exchanges between Spain and England. I said that the kids from rich families were not good with the hotel work (just wanting the English practice really) and the poor kids were very good at the work and gained a lot from it when returning to Spain.

She said “It's always the same. The poor work hard because they have a hard life, like me, but the rich kids have had life easy and they can't cope with the work.”

Now, I'm suspicious of universal claims, but so often I have heard this same sentiment, in many different countries, that maybe it is a generality. Yes, there will be exceptions, but is there at least a grain of truth in her words?

Alex.

 

[Malintent]

Yes. What constitutes "hard work... little work.. dirty work... fun work", etc... is subjective to the individual. Individuals that have a very low bar on their perception of work being "hard.. or unpleasant" tend to be those that have had little expected from them in that regard. Economics is a strong driver in how these perceptions form... undoubtedly, from the expectations their parents had of them.

 

[rousseau]

It's kosher to describe the poor as hard-working, and the rich as lazy, since the poor need the help, and the rich need the modesty.

Where the description is accurate is that the poor often do the grunt work: hard physical labour, or tedious mental labour. We call that the hard work because that's what's kosher to say. But if the rich weren't good at working hard as well .. they likely wouldn't be rich.

The main distinction between poor workers and richer workers, is that richer workers generally have either more of a capacity to take on higher responsibility work, or they've had the means to train themselves to do so.

 

[ryan]

It depends on how the kids are raised. Rich or poor, parents can influence the future work ethic of their children.

 

[Philos]

But if the rich weren't good at working hard as well .. they likely wouldn't be rich.

The main distinction between poor workers and richer workers, is that richer workers generally have either more of a capacity to take on higher responsibility work, or they've had the means to train themselves to do so.

Nick,

I have heard some people say that the rich are rich because they deserve to be. I have also heard something similar said about the poor.

Alex.

 

[EricK]

It's kosher to describe the poor as hard-working, and the rich as lazy, since the poor need the help, and the rich need the modesty.

Where the description is accurate is that the poor often do the grunt work: hard physical labour, or tedious mental labour. We call that the hard work because that's what's kosher to say. But if the rich weren't good at working hard as well .. they likely wouldn't be rich.

The main distinction between poor workers and richer workers, is that richer workers generally have either more of a capacity to take on higher responsibility work, or they've had the means to train themselves to do so.

whether people who become rich were hard working is a separate question. The OP is about people who come from rich families - and they certainly didn't achieve that due to any work on their part.

 

[Perspicuo]

Folks who grew up poor with responsible parents who showed them how to work are much better off.

 

[arkirk]

It's kosher to describe the poor as hard-working, and the rich as lazy, since the poor need the help, and the rich need the modesty.

Where the description is accurate is that the poor often do the grunt work: hard physical labour, or tedious mental labour. We call that the hard work because that's what's kosher to say. But if the rich weren't good at working hard as well .. they likely wouldn't be rich.

The main distinction between poor workers and richer workers, is that richer workers generally have either more of a capacity to take on higher responsibility work, or they've had the means to train themselves to do so.

The rick kid's "work" could be the joy of figuring out how to steal as much as dad did.

 

[Philos]

It's kosher to describe the poor as hard-working, and the rich as lazy, since the poor need the help, and the rich need the modesty.

Where the description is accurate is that the poor often do the grunt work: hard physical labour, or tedious mental labour. We call that the hard work because that's what's kosher to say. But if the rich weren't good at working hard as well .. they likely wouldn't be rich.

The main distinction between poor workers and richer workers, is that richer workers generally have either more of a capacity to take on higher responsibility work, or they've had the means to train themselves to do so.

The rick kid's "work" could be the joy of figuring out how to steal as much as dad did.

arkirk,

Sadly, I am inclined to agree with you.

Alex.

 

[untermensche]

The rich own, they do not work.

You will not likely get very rich by working. Only a very small minority ever do.

The children of the rich are taught how to own, not how to work.

Which means reducing most other humans to nothing but tools.

 

[Bomb#20]

Now, I'm suspicious of universal claims, but so often I have heard this same sentiment, in many different countries, that maybe it is a generality.

Okay, here's a generality for you based on the sentiments I've heard so often. In the last three posts, for instance. Bigotry against those whom other people despise is hate mongering. Bigotry against those whom you despise is, apparently, Philosophy, Morals and Principles. Outgroups are like children -- it's different when they're yours.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The rich own, they do not work.

You will not likely get very rich by working. Only a very small minority ever do.

The children of the rich are taught how to own, not how to work.

Which means reducing most other humans to nothing but tools.

Sorry, but every rich person I've known works a lot.

 

[untermensche]

The rich own, they do not work.

You will not likely get very rich by working. Only a very small minority ever do.

The children of the rich are taught how to own, not how to work.

Which means reducing most other humans to nothing but tools.

Sorry, but every rich person I've known works a lot.

Your definition of rich is in the big picture not very rich.

 

[Kharakov]

Sorry, but every rich person I've known works a lot.

It's easy to work a lot when the work you do is lucrative- it's a high in itself, not too mention the fringe benefits. It's not work when it's play- and that's what it is for the rich because of the psychological nature of their position.

So, if you say "every rich person I know plays a lot, and gets richer doing so", you'd be correct.

I really would love to be rich...

 

[rousseau]

Sorry, but every rich person I've known works a lot.

It's easy to work a lot when the work you do is lucrative- it's a high in itself, not too mention the fringe benefits. It's not work when it's play- and that's what it is for the rich because of the psychological nature of their position.

So, if you say "every rich person I know plays a lot, and gets richer doing so", you'd be correct.

I really would love to be rich...

What does being *rich* even mean? If we're talking the absurdly wealthy the employment dynamics get pretty weird, but the vast majority of people with excessive wealth have fairly intensive jobs.

Hell, I don't even make that much, but compared to a lot of my peers I'd consider myself well off. I work hard.

I'd grant that C levels and CEO's are often an odd exception, but they are the small minority of people with decent money.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sorry, but every rich person I've known works a lot.

Your definition of rich is in the big picture not very rich.

I've known one couple in the high 9 figures. That's not rich enough for you?

 

[TV and credit cards]

I think it often comes down to folks who follow the spirit of the law and those who operate within the letter of the law. Poor people will read the rules and set their goals within the literal interpretation of those rules. Wealthy people set goals and interpret the rules to fit and achieve their goals.

People who become wealthy are also willing to take risk, often to the point of putting their family's well-being at risk. I'm referring to starting your own business. I don't know if there is anyone who works harder than the individual who starts their own business. And then if the business is successful and the individual becomes wealthy, they are oftentimes resented by those not willing to take on that much risk. There are many very wealthy hard working business owners who care about their employees first and foremost. If those employees are not willing to take on risk, they are free to work hard for a paycheck for their entire adult lives, try to save a few bucks, and bemoan the wealthy.
In between the the evil corporate empires and the downtrodden are a whole lot of the rest of us, albeit, a shrinking rest of us imho.

I've seen this first hand in stark contrast. Two individuals, friends, pretty much socioeconomic equals in their early twenties move in completely different directions. One kept putting it all on the line, incurring much debt to buy the equipment he needed to run successful businesses. Sold the last one for somewhere around 10M, was the family rumor and pretty much retired in his mid forties. The other is looking at sixty now and still collecting that paycheck and living his lower middle class life.
To each his own.

 

[rousseau]

I think it often comes down to folks who follow the spirit of the law and those who operate within the letter of the law. Poor people will read the rules and set their goals within the literal interpretation of those rules. Wealthy people set goals and interpret the rules to fit and achieve their goals.

People who become wealthy are also willing to take risk, often to the point of putting their family's well-being at risk. I'm referring to starting your own business. I don't know if there is anyone who works harder than the individual who starts their own business. And then if the business is successful and the individual becomes wealthy, they are oftentimes resented by those not willing to take on that much risk. There are many very wealthy hard working business owners who care about their employees first and foremost. If those employees are not willing to take on risk, they are free to work hard for a paycheck for their entire adult lives, try to save a few bucks, and bemoan the wealthy.
In between the the evil corporate empires and the downtrodden are a whole lot of the rest of us, albeit, a shrinking rest of us imho.

I've seen this first hand in stark contrast. Two individuals, friends, pretty much socioeconomic equals in their early twenties move in completely different directions. One kept putting it all on the line, incurring much debt to buy the equipment he needed to run successful businesses. Sold the last one for somewhere around 10M, was the family rumor and pretty much retired in his mid forties. The other is looking at sixty now and still collecting that paycheck and living his lower middle class life.
To each his own.

True. And it does work both ways. I've seen serial entrepreneurs consistently strike out and end up living a more meagre lifestyle than many. There are also many people who make a more than decent living working for a pay-cheque, mind you they are the minority, but they are there.

A few years ago, when I was in my earlier twenties, I had bad social anxiety and the only thing I could think of in my life was to get to retirement. I chose a career based solely on the fact that it would offer an early, and well-paid retirement. Awful idea. What I didn't account for were those.. oh you know.. kind of arbitrary 20-30 years of working life in between. Since then I've realized that money has never been my goal, at least past the point of obtaining life security. I'm not against the idea of entrepreneurship on principle, but I know I don't have the personality or the drive for it, so it's just not an option (as is the case for many others).

So instead I've made a mental shift, and realized that my working life is a part of the journey, and something to be fully realized and experienced. If I treat my life like a slog to retirement, that's exactly what it's going to be. It also helps that I did a full career shift at 25, went back to school, and now have a job that suits my personality type.

 

[Philos]

It's easy to work a lot when the work you do is lucrative- it's a high in itself, not too mention the fringe benefits. It's not work when it's play- and that's what it is for the rich because of the psychological nature of their position.

So, if you say "every rich person I know plays a lot, and gets richer doing so", you'd be correct.

I really would love to be rich...

Kharakov,

I'm with you on this. The OP, based on a true experience, required me to empathise with an obviously poor immigrant and her view of the world.

It might help to consider what work is for people in different positions in life. For the poorest, work is something that you have to do or your f*****. The poorer we are, the less choice we have over the nature of our work and the time that we must give to it.

Once we are wealthy enough to choose not to work if we don't want to, then obviously 'work' takes on a completely different aspect. In tbis position, if we don't work we are not f*****

I have been in both positions, and can say, without fear of contradiction, that the latter position is , as you say, "easy" compared to the first. However I have not been a poor immigrant, struggling with a foreign language and people.

IMHO, if folks don't know that it is hardest at the bottom, they don't know dick s***.

Alex.

 

[Togo]

There are different kinds of work. I think it's a lot easier to work longer hours consistently at the top end, and you have more of your life to excel. It's certainly easier to add value, and to differentiate yourself from others.

My brother described his job as basically walking down a line of mathematicians and shouting 'code faster!'. He pulls in well over half a million dollars in a good year. He does work long hours, and he doesn't goof off, but I can't really see a good reason to pay him several hundred times more than other people.