ACLU blocks woman's request for data on numbers of transgender inmates in women's prisons

Metaphor

Zarobljenik u hrastu
Banned
I will note, in strict terms, there is no same sex attraction. There is gender attraction and genital fetishizaton and genital kink.

Living proof of what transactivists say and may actually believe.

Jarhyn

Wizard
Don't worry metaphor. I can't see whatever drivel you just posted but rest assured, I don't judge you negatively for your penis fetish. Fetishes are a person's own business after all. Just stop acting like a dick about the things you don't like.

repoman

Contributor
Gonna put attacks on real females by fake females into the female attacker category.

This Orwellian level would be funny if it were not so tragic.

Every bit of violence by MTFs should be assigned to the male sex.

Metaphor

Zarobljenik u hrastu
Banned
Don't worry metaphor. I can't see whatever drivel you just posted but rest assured, I don't judge you negatively for your penis fetish. Fetishes are a person's own business after all. Just stop acting like a dick about the things you don't like.

Jarhyn, sweetie, rest assured I was not worried whether you seen what I'd written or approved; I do not trust your moral judgment, nor your grasp on reality.

Axulus

No, not to prison, though a woman in my own city was fined $10,000 and ordered to publically apologise when she 'liked' certain comments on her Facebook. But, if I did go to prison, I may well write. Jean Genet wrote Our Lady of the Flowers while in prison after all. What a bizarre thing to think. I don't touch strangers without their permission. As for the last bit, you do seem very, very angry at trans people. I'm not angry at trans people as a class. I 'follow' Blaire White and Rose of Dawn and Debbie Hayton and Buck Angel, who are all trans. Hateful, in fact. Much less am I hateful. You've been building a case against them for years now, I haven't been "building a case" against trans people. I have observed what trans activists are saying and demanding. and are currently whining very loudly about them asserting their rights. I did not know it was a right to play on a sports team consistent with your gender identity and not your sex. Why do you believe any person has that right? My goodness you must have suffered such terrible abuses at the hands of trans people. Have you thought about suing them for mental distress? Evidently, you are simply not interested in discussion of any kind. You should add another one to your list: if you oppose *any* of the tenants of trans ideology, you are transphobic and hate trans people. laughing dog Contributor I don't understand how a private NGO can block a Freedom of Information Act request. I am unaware of any mandated permission to make a request. I thought it is up to the gov't agency to comply or supply a reason for denial. If denied, one can then seek redress through the courts. So, how is the ACLU blocking this request or is this yet another example of ideologically-driven hyperbole? ZiprHead Loony Running The Asylum Staff member Joint Statement of Disability Rights Washington and the ACLU of Washington on the filing of Does v. Washington Department of Corrections Seattle – On April 7, 2021, Disability Rights Washington (DRW); the ACLU of Washington; Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP; and MacDonald, Hoague & Bayless sued the Washington Department of Corrections (DOC) on behalf of a group of people who are currently and formerly incarcerated. Several parties, including media entities and an individual, had requested information through the Washington Public Records Act about people whom DOC has identified as transgender, non-binary, and intersex. This emergency lawsuit was necessary to protect their safety and privacy. DOC alone was sued in this action. The media entities and individual who requested this information were given notice of our lawsuit and named as "interested parties” in this case so that they may remain updated and have the opportunity to provide their perspective should they so choose. The scope of the requests for information about transgender, non-binary, and intersex people is vast. In response, DOC could release information about people’s mental health and medical information, including but not limited to their transgender or intersex status and history of gender-affirming medical care, as well as information about their experiences surviving sexual violence. As required by federal law, including the Prison Rape Elimination Act, DOC collects this extremely sensitive information for the purposes of managing the heightened risks of sexual and physical violence that all people, including cisgender men and women, and transgender, non-binary, and intersex people, face in custody. Disclosing this information would create a terrible precedent for the safety and privacy of all people who have been in or will be in DOC custody, including all victims of sexual abuse. DOC policies state the information will be kept confidential and they go to considerable lengths to ensure confidentiality when gathering and analyzing this information in order to protect the safety and privacy of those identified. Disclosing this information will, by purpose and effect, create a target list of some of the most vulnerable people who are or have been in the care of the DOC. It will also deter people from disclosing their gender, seeking life-saving medical and mental health care, and rob people of their fundamental right to privacy and to live a life consistent with their gender without fear of harassment, discrimination, and other forms of violence inside and outside DOC. Such a disclosure would create a serious and unacceptable risk of harm to the people identified and violate their 8th and 14th Amendment rights. In addition, the requested information is exempt from disclosure under Washington’s Public Records Act. More info in the statement. Ford Contributor No, not to prison, though a woman in my own city was fined$10,000 and ordered to publically apologise when she 'liked' certain comments on her Facebook.

You know when you link a story, other people can read it, right?

This wasn't some random person who was caught making anti-trans comments to a friend at the pub where someone else overheard and next thing you know she was clapped in leg irons.

No, the woman you feel was terribly wronged by the "trans agenda" made public comments on social media which ran afoul of your discrimination laws. She paid a small fine and apologized. Problem solved? No, she failed to rectify the situation, leaving the offending comments up on her social media and "liking" discriminatory responses, which - one would have to assume - she knew would run her afoul of the law she had already violated.

Now, I'm not familiar with your anti-discrimination laws, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say they aren't limited to gender identity. Therefore, anyone making such comments towards any class protected under the law could face similar consequences. Yet you chose to highlight this one case and present it as proof that there's some sinister trans agenda wiping out your personal liberties. It's not. Turns out your country has some consequential anti-discrimination laws, and that strikes me as a good thing.

It seems like you're bothered because trans people are protected by your laws. I can't help but wonder if you'd be this upset over someone being fined for making "vilifying and victimising " statements against racial or ethnic minorities.

TomC

Celestial Highness
I don't understand how a private NGO can block a Freedom of Information Act request. I am unaware of any mandated permission to make a request. I thought it is up to the gov't agency to comply or supply a reason for denial. If denied, one can then seek redress through the courts. So, how is the ACLU blocking this request or is this yet another example of ideologically-driven hyperbole?

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen anything about the ACLU's reasoning. They obviously support the FOIA as a concept. How to do it is on their website. For some reason they're opposing this particular use. Nor the applicants reasoning, to be fair.

Prison inmates are in a peculiar position. I don't know what any of this is about. But I can imagine circumstances where transfolk would be in huge danger.
Tom

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
I don't understand how a private NGO can block a Freedom of Information Act request. I am unaware of any mandated permission to make a request. I thought it is up to the gov't agency to comply or supply a reason for denial. If denied, one can then seek redress through the courts. So, how is the ACLU blocking this request or is this yet another example of ideologically-driven hyperbole?

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen anything about the ACLU's reasoning. They obviously support the FOIA as a concept. How to do it is on their website. For some reason they're opposing this particular use. Nor the applicants reasoning, to be fair.

Prison inmates are in a peculiar position. I don't know what any of this is about. But I can imagine circumstances where transfolk would be in huge danger.
Tom

repoman

Contributor
I don't understand how a private NGO can block a Freedom of Information Act request. I am unaware of any mandated permission to make a request. I thought it is up to the gov't agency to comply or supply a reason for denial. If denied, one can then seek redress through the courts. So, how is the ACLU blocking this request or is this yet another example of ideologically-driven hyperbole?

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen anything about the ACLU's reasoning. They obviously support the FOIA as a concept. How to do it is on their website. For some reason they're opposing this particular use. Nor the applicants reasoning, to be fair.

Prison inmates are in a peculiar position. I don't know what any of this is about. But I can imagine circumstances where transfolk would be in huge danger.
Tom

Transwomen are a huge danger to real women.

TomC

Celestial Highness
I don't understand how a private NGO can block a Freedom of Information Act request. I am unaware of any mandated permission to make a request. I thought it is up to the gov't agency to comply or supply a reason for denial. If denied, one can then seek redress through the courts. So, how is the ACLU blocking this request or is this yet another example of ideologically-driven hyperbole?

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen anything about the ACLU's reasoning. They obviously support the FOIA as a concept. How to do it is on their website. For some reason they're opposing this particular use. Nor the applicants reasoning, to be fair.

Prison inmates are in a peculiar position. I don't know what any of this is about. But I can imagine circumstances where transfolk would be in huge danger.
Tom

OK. Got it.
You posted that while I was posting, so I missed it.
But it makes good sense to me. Thanks.
Tom

Jarhyn

Wizard
I don't understand how a private NGO can block a Freedom of Information Act request. I am unaware of any mandated permission to make a request. I thought it is up to the gov't agency to comply or supply a reason for denial. If denied, one can then seek redress through the courts. So, how is the ACLU blocking this request or is this yet another example of ideologically-driven hyperbole?

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen anything about the ACLU's reasoning. They obviously support the FOIA as a concept. How to do it is on their website. For some reason they're opposing this particular use. Nor the applicants reasoning, to be fair.

Prison inmates are in a peculiar position. I don't know what any of this is about. But I can imagine circumstances where transfolk would be in huge danger.
Tom

Transwomen are a huge danger to real women.

Maybe you could justify that point of view with some record or evidence of attacks?

TomC

Celestial Highness
I don't understand how a private NGO can block a Freedom of Information Act request. I am unaware of any mandated permission to make a request. I thought it is up to the gov't agency to comply or supply a reason for denial. If denied, one can then seek redress through the courts. So, how is the ACLU blocking this request or is this yet another example of ideologically-driven hyperbole?

I've scrolled through this thread and haven't seen anything about the ACLU's reasoning. They obviously support the FOIA as a concept. How to do it is on their website. For some reason they're opposing this particular use. Nor the applicants reasoning, to be fair.

Prison inmates are in a peculiar position. I don't know what any of this is about. But I can imagine circumstances where transfolk would be in huge danger.
Tom

Transwomen are a huge danger to real women.

I get that. But I'm guessing that, in prison, "real" men are an even bigger danger to transmen.
Tom

TomC

Celestial Highness
Transwomen are a huge danger to real women.

Maybe you could justify that point of view with some record or evidence of attacks?

Where would one find accurate records concerning prison attacks?
Snitches get stitches, ya know.
Tom

Jarhyn

Wizard
Transwomen are a huge danger to real women.

Maybe you could justify that point of view with some record or evidence of attacks?

Where would one find accurate records concerning prison attacks?
Snitches get stitches, ya know.
Tom

So what you're saying is you are pulling it out of your ass. Maybe repoman can provide what you didn't.

TomC

Celestial Highness
Where would one find accurate records concerning prison attacks?
Snitches get stitches, ya know.
Tom

So what you're saying is you are pulling it out of your ass. Maybe repoman can provide what you didn't.

Pulling what "out of my ass"?
The likelihood of having an accurate database concerning prison assault?

You really think that prisons keep accurate records about that? Hell, it's hard to get accurate records concerning police violence.
Tom

Jarhyn

Wizard
Where would one find accurate records concerning prison attacks?
Snitches get stitches, ya know.
Tom

So what you're saying is you are pulling it out of your ass. Maybe repoman can provide what you didn't.

Pulling what "out of my ass"?
The likelihood of having an accurate database concerning prison assault?

You really think that prisons keep accurate records about that? Hell, it's hard to get accurate records concerning police violence.
Tom

The point is, you are admitting that you have nothing but wild assumption that trans women are contributing to and attacking people at higher than the per capita rate.

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
1) This is a request for medical information. As such, great care needs to be taken with the data even if it is to be complied with. Note that it's very unlikely the data being asked for exists in that form[/i]. Compliance would require compiling it--and this is a realm where great care must be taken to avoid leaking information. You need medical researchers, not bureaucrats.

2) The numbers are going to be low. With the breakdown requested it will narrow it down to a few people. This could be dangerous for the people involved. As such, it should be denied, period, even if enough care is taken in compiling the info.

TomC

Celestial Highness
Pulling what "out of my ass"?
The likelihood of having an accurate database concerning prison assault?

You really think that prisons keep accurate records about that? Hell, it's hard to get accurate records concerning police violence.
Tom

The point is, you are admitting that you have nothing but wild assumption that trans women are contributing to and attacking people at higher than the per capita rate.

I suppose that the fact that I said nothing important about transwomen doesn't have anything to do with your opinion about me.
Tom