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Am I drinking too much?

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I have been a fan of drinking for a long time because I like to enjoy life and howl at the moon sometimes, but lately my wife has been telling me that I drink too much. People throw around the word alcoholic like they understand the complex nature of the brain and how neurotransmitters work on dopamine receptors in the brain, but I'm trying to actually understand if I have a real problem. I'm looking at the criteria in the DSM 5 for what they call Alcohol Use Disorder and I have a few disagreements and questions. These are the question psychologists ask to diagnose somebody who has a drinking problem:

DSM 5 Alcohol Use Disorder


1. Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?

Who actually plans out ahead of time before you get to a party exactly how much you are going to drink, or how long you will stay? And even if you do that, should it not be allowed to have a few more drinks if it is a good party and with fun people?



2. More than once wanted to cut down or stop drinking, or tried to, but couldn’t?

Everybody knows that drinking is not good for you, except for maybe one glass of wine or beer per day to help relax. Drinking water is good for you, but if you drink too much it will kill you. If you drink water or alcohol in moderation, then maybe you will be ok.


3. Spent a lot of time drinking? Or being sick or getting over other aftereffects?

This is two different questions. How much is a lot of time? If you're drunk every day or every other day then yeah it's probably a problem. But who gets to decide how often you should drink? If you are young and in shape and your liver can process the alcohol then maybe you are fine to drink as much as you want?



4. Wanted a drink so badly you couldn’t think of anything else?
**This is new to DSM–5**

Yeah it's probably bad if you can't think of anything else besides wanting a drink, unless somebody you love just died or you are going through serious trauma like a divorce or something. Having a drink and contemplating the meaning of life or having a serious soul searching session is maybe better than hurting other people or yourself.



5. Found that drinking—or being sick from drinking—often interfered with taking care of your home or family? Or caused job troubles? Or school problems?

Hangovers are a part of drinking and yes they will keep you from being at 100% efficiency, but maybe your mind needs a release every once in a while. If you drink too much so that your children go hungry then yeah you have a problem. If you drink too much and can't mow the grass the next day, then fuck it who gives a shit. The grass is just a stupid plant that doesn't really effect anything except the HOA rules.



6. Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?

If your real friends are telling you to stop drinking then yeah you should probably consider what they are saying. If your family and friends are a bunch of idiots who don't understand how the brain works, but are quick to judge you, then why should you listen to them.



7. Given up or cut back on activities that were important or interesting to you, or gave you pleasure, in order to drink?

That's probably another good rule. If alcohol keeps you from doing things that you enjoy then maybe it's a problem.



8. More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or having unsafe sex)?

Life is a mystery. If you want to live inside a protective bubble to keep all the bad things from hurting you, then don't ever drink or do anything that might lead to danger. But if I go to a party and have a few drink, and then end up diving into a swimming pool with new people I just met, I don't think this should be considered a drinking problem. Perhaps the psychologists who made this rule are not very interesting at parties and don't understand how to have fun.



9. Continued to drink even though it was making you feel depressed or anxious or adding to another health problem? Or after having had a memory blackout?

This is one of the rules that I agree with. If somebody is drinking so much that they are experiencing black outs or depression then it's probably time to take a break. This is true of all mind altering substances and not just alcohol.



10. Had to drink much more than you once did to get the effect you want? Or found that your usual number of drinks had much less effect than before?

I am descended from Vikings who used to drink from the skulls of their enemies. Just because I have a higher alcohol tolerance level than most people doesn't mean I have a drinking problem Sometime I think people are jealous when I can drink more than them and jump to conclusions



11. Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?

This is one of the harsh effects of being a drinker. The withdrawal symptoms are terrible, but at least when I get drunk and smoke some weed and listen to some music, or enjoy a movie, then I can finally sleep. Alcohol lets me relax, and for somebody who suffers from anxiety that's a blessing. I know it's not good for me but neither is sugar or thinking about the people you hate. I know alcohol kills a lot of people every year, much more than drugs do, but if the US tries to outlaw alcohol again then I will be out there in the streets protesting with a bottle of whiskey
 

rousseau

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There's a difference between being addicted and having a problem. You can be addicted and even drink too much, but be functional. That was the case for me about a decade ago: I was a pretty effective person but couldn't stop drinking.

I think people have acquired an unhealthy notion that you need to be guzzling vodka at 8 am to consider the possibility that you're drinking too much. This causes many of us to ignore how much we do drink, and the real addiction that's there. And because alcohol is so pervasive globally an unhealthy habit goes largely ignored.

In other words, if you were eating three McDonald's cheeseburgers every Friday and Saturday night you wouldn't necessarily have a problem, but it would be an unhealthy habit. Similarly, drinking, if overdone, is an unhealthy habit. So ultimately a person needs to decide what, and how much of it, they let in their body.

For me, back in 2012, after quitting smoking, I tried to take a stab at cutting back on alcohol. At the time drinking was so normal to me that I couldn't fathom not doing it. It took a long time, but by 2017 I went a full year without alcohol before I got married. And lately I just don't really like drinking at all.. entirely addiction free.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Your wife knows you much better than any of us! That doesn’t make her word gospel (especially round here ;)), but she’d be much more familiar with your habits and how they’ve changed or progressed over time.

Are you going to tell her, ‘but the people at TalkFreethought said I’m not drinking too much?’ Long story short, why is she wrong? Going through a psych diagnosis doesn’t get to the brass tacks. How much and how often do you drink? Can you drink less?

The fact you are even asking must indicate you feel there is some level of truth in there. And drinking too much doesn’t have to equal alcoholism.
 

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Lately I drink about two or three times a month, but when I do drink it's usually a lot. I live in Texas so it's normal here to try and drink more than your friends. My wife is on fertility drugs because we are trying to have a baby, and her brain is on fire with hormones. I'm just looking for logical and reasonable explanations for when it is acceptable to have a drink, if that is possible.
 

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There's a difference between being addicted and having a problem. You can be addicted and even drink too much, but be functional. That was the case for me about a decade ago: I was a pretty effective person but couldn't stop drinking.

Do you still enjoy the smell of somebody smoking a cigarette? Can you smoke a cigar without inhaling it?
 

rousseau

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There's a difference between being addicted and having a problem. You can be addicted and even drink too much, but be functional. That was the case for me about a decade ago: I was a pretty effective person but couldn't stop drinking.

Do you still enjoy the smell of somebody smoking a cigarette? Can you smoke a cigar without inhaling it?

I went through phases with quitting smoking (it'll be ten years in October). For the first year or two I craved a bit. After that point I didn't crave them but enjoyed the smell, and would occasionally dream about smoking. Then a little while longer and it was like the habit never existed. I find cigarettes and cigarette smoke repulsive now.

What I still miss is the physical act of smoking; if it wasn't a horribly unhealthy habit I'd likely still do it. Actually, a little while ago I smoked Holy Basil for about a month out of pandemic boredom, but I realized it shouldn't be long-term and I stopped doing it.
 

rousseau

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Lately I drink about two or three times a month, but when I do drink it's usually a lot. I live in Texas so it's normal here to try and drink more than your friends. My wife is on fertility drugs because we are trying to have a baby, and her brain is on fire with hormones. I'm just looking for logical and reasonable explanations for when it is acceptable to have a drink, if that is possible.

Three heavy sessions a month sounds like a lot to me (in terms of long-term health), but it may not be a problem. It might become a problem once you have a baby, though, it's a lot harder to parent hungover. You may find you can't support your partner well enough while still binge drinking that often.
 

untermensche

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If you think you might have a problem and other people are saying you have a problem you probably do.
 

DrZoidberg

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I have been a fan of drinking for a long time because I like to enjoy life and howl at the moon sometimes, but lately my wife has been telling me that I drink too much. People throw around the word alcoholic like they understand the complex nature of the brain and how neurotransmitters work on dopamine receptors in the brain, but I'm trying to actually understand if I have a real problem. I'm looking at the criteria in the DSM 5 for what they call Alcohol Use Disorder and I have a few disagreements and questions. These are the question psychologists ask to diagnose somebody who has a drinking problem:

DSM 5 Alcohol Use Disorder


1. Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?

Who actually plans out ahead of time before you get to a party exactly how much you are going to drink, or how long you will stay? And even if you do that, should it not be allowed to have a few more drinks if it is a good party and with fun people?



2. More than once wanted to cut down or stop drinking, or tried to, but couldn’t?

Everybody knows that drinking is not good for you, except for maybe one glass of wine or beer per day to help relax. Drinking water is good for you, but if you drink too much it will kill you. If you drink water or alcohol in moderation, then maybe you will be ok.


3. Spent a lot of time drinking? Or being sick or getting over other aftereffects?

This is two different questions. How much is a lot of time? If you're drunk every day or every other day then yeah it's probably a problem. But who gets to decide how often you should drink? If you are young and in shape and your liver can process the alcohol then maybe you are fine to drink as much as you want?



4. Wanted a drink so badly you couldn’t think of anything else?
**This is new to DSM–5**

Yeah it's probably bad if you can't think of anything else besides wanting a drink, unless somebody you love just died or you are going through serious trauma like a divorce or something. Having a drink and contemplating the meaning of life or having a serious soul searching session is maybe better than hurting other people or yourself.



5. Found that drinking—or being sick from drinking—often interfered with taking care of your home or family? Or caused job troubles? Or school problems?

Hangovers are a part of drinking and yes they will keep you from being at 100% efficiency, but maybe your mind needs a release every once in a while. If you drink too much so that your children go hungry then yeah you have a problem. If you drink too much and can't mow the grass the next day, then fuck it who gives a shit. The grass is just a stupid plant that doesn't really effect anything except the HOA rules.



6. Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?

If your real friends are telling you to stop drinking then yeah you should probably consider what they are saying. If your family and friends are a bunch of idiots who don't understand how the brain works, but are quick to judge you, then why should you listen to them.



7. Given up or cut back on activities that were important or interesting to you, or gave you pleasure, in order to drink?

That's probably another good rule. If alcohol keeps you from doing things that you enjoy then maybe it's a problem.



8. More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or having unsafe sex)?

Life is a mystery. If you want to live inside a protective bubble to keep all the bad things from hurting you, then don't ever drink or do anything that might lead to danger. But if I go to a party and have a few drink, and then end up diving into a swimming pool with new people I just met, I don't think this should be considered a drinking problem. Perhaps the psychologists who made this rule are not very interesting at parties and don't understand how to have fun.



9. Continued to drink even though it was making you feel depressed or anxious or adding to another health problem? Or after having had a memory blackout?

This is one of the rules that I agree with. If somebody is drinking so much that they are experiencing black outs or depression then it's probably time to take a break. This is true of all mind altering substances and not just alcohol.



10. Had to drink much more than you once did to get the effect you want? Or found that your usual number of drinks had much less effect than before?

I am descended from Vikings who used to drink from the skulls of their enemies. Just because I have a higher alcohol tolerance level than most people doesn't mean I have a drinking problem Sometime I think people are jealous when I can drink more than them and jump to conclusions



11. Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?

This is one of the harsh effects of being a drinker. The withdrawal symptoms are terrible, but at least when I get drunk and smoke some weed and listen to some music, or enjoy a movie, then I can finally sleep. Alcohol lets me relax, and for somebody who suffers from anxiety that's a blessing. I know it's not good for me but neither is sugar or thinking about the people you hate. I know alcohol kills a lot of people every year, much more than drugs do, but if the US tries to outlaw alcohol again then I will be out there in the streets protesting with a bottle of whiskey

So what's the questions? It looks to me like you're trying very hard to disqualify the questions. It looks defensive. That's a worrying sign.

If you are prone to anxiety that will put you at a risk for any addiction. So you will need to be extra cautious and attentive to the signs.

I helped support an ex-wife out of her alcohol addiction. The way the rehab staff explained it to me, if you have a pattern of drinking (or doing anything) in order to escape painful or unpleasant feelings, then it's likely addiction. Normal people don't do that. Normal people who feel bad just accept it and feel bad. They manage it by just sitting with it until it goes away. Or doesn't go away. Normal people are cool and chill about life most of the time. People prone to addiction are often overwhelmed by negative emotions and have a strong emotional incentive to cling to whatever short term coping mechanism they can find. Just to make it through the day. Addicts are often stressed out by a lack of distractions. They often find it painful to have no company but their own thoughts. Normal people tend to enjoy being able to chill and cool about nothing happening. Normal people can go to a bar or a party and not really drink. They can buy one or two drinks and it'll last them a whole evening. It's very common. Or not drink.

I think a major problem for alcoholics to self diagnose themselves is that they don't know how it is to not be an alcoholic. They think that everybody is like them. Nobody can read minds and truly know what others are feeling.

Alcoholics tend to have quite the number of a really fucked up thought patterns and dysfunctional coping mechanisms. The drinking is just the crowning piece on a mountain of shit.

And lastly. You can test whether you're an alcoholic or not. It's a super simple test. Don't drink for three months. And pay attention on what happens in your brain. It needs to be three months. Even alcoholics can stay sober a week or a month. It needs to be a couple of months before the psychological coping mechanisms start unravelling. Typically alcoholics will shift to some other common addictive behaviour. Often sex addiction or extreme training. Or getting obsessive about dieting. It can get quite humous seeing it in a partner struggling her way through it.

We got divorced 15 years ago. She was sober then. About a year ago she called me up and said that she'd checked herself into rehab again. Now she's sober again. Being an alcoholic is a constant struggle.

Good luck
 

Bronzeage

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Lately I drink about two or three times a month, but when I do drink it's usually a lot. I live in Texas so it's normal here to try and drink more than your friends. My wife is on fertility drugs because we are trying to have a baby, and her brain is on fire with hormones. I'm just looking for logical and reasonable explanations for when it is acceptable to have a drink, if that is possible.

That's not actually normal, even if it may be common in your social circles.

The "I can drink more than you can" competition is a rationalization which gives one an excuse to do something self hazardous. Most people outgrow this phase of adolescence where they are eager to do all the "grown up" things.

If we assume you are a free man over the age of 21, with the economic ability to buy your own alcohol, it's acceptable to have a drink anytime you please. It's what you do afterward which may not be acceptable, but this raises the obvious question, whose acceptance do you want? If you want the acceptance of the men you are trying to out drink, that's fine. You do need to remember, any feelings of acceptance you have enjoyed were felt at a time of severe impairment.

Your wife may have a different idea of acceptable. The basic fact of this situation is that alcohol is a toxic substance that the body can tolerate in small quantities. It comes down to how often and how severely do you want to poison yourself. That is entirely your call.
 

Tharmas

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Re: the topic of alcoholism

First of all, let me say that I speak as a recovered alcoholic. I have practiced absolute abstinence for many years, successfully and happily.

Second, I agree with DrZoidberg in general that typically there are psychological issues, but I would add that they can differ from individual to individual. In my case it turned out I was bipolar, and my drinking was perhaps a form of self medication.

And I definitely agree with untermensche that it is not a moral issue. My experience tells me that there are strong physiological, genetic influences in how one responds to alcohol – by no means are all drinkers alike in their reactions to alcohol.

As for your responses to the criteria in the DSM, I can’t comment. No doubt we have very different life experiences. For one thing, I was a daily drinker, not a binge drinker like you.

In my experience, the only one who can say you have a problem is you. If you are comfortable with your life, why change? If you are not comfortable with your life, perhaps it’s time to consider some other options.

Personally, I drank through a marriage, two careers, a house and a couple of cars, and ended sleeping on friends’ couches and living in the streets before it occurred to me I might have a problem with alcohol. Perhaps I’m not too bright. But that’s my story, not yours. Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.
 

southernhybrid

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You don't sound like an alcoholic if you are only drinking 2 or 3 times a month. My suggestion is that you have your liver enzymes checked the next time you have a medical appointment. That should tell you if the ETOH is affecting your liver in a negative way. It's unlikely to show any damage if you are still very young, but if you're over 40, it might have some significance. Of course, drugs like acetaminophen can also cause liver damage, so try to avoid Tylenol if you have a hangover.

My late grandfather was an alcoholic, yet I never saw him drunk. He took little hits of whiskey every few hours. I think it was a way of self medication, plus his father was an alcoholic, so it could have been genetic. Perhaps your wife just doesn't like seeing your drunk. Drinking to excess certainly can be a problem if you are driving or doing anything that requires having all of your cognition in tact, but I'm sure you already knew that. I also know that sometimes people do foolish things when they drink too much.

My late grandfather died of liver failure at the age of 70. Not to stereotype all Irish men with the name of Tommy Doyle.... Not that all people who over use ETOH die from that habit, but at least be aware that it can damage the liver if you drink enough of it.

I agree that using any type of drug has nothing to do with morality. A lot of us have habits that may be harmful to our health.
 

Loren Pechtel

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I have been a fan of drinking for a long time because I like to enjoy life and howl at the moon sometimes, but lately my wife has been telling me that I drink too much. People throw around the word alcoholic like they understand the complex nature of the brain and how neurotransmitters work on dopamine receptors in the brain, but I'm trying to actually understand if I have a real problem. I'm looking at the criteria in the DSM 5 for what they call Alcohol Use Disorder and I have a few disagreements and questions. These are the question psychologists ask to diagnose somebody who has a drinking problem:

DSM 5 Alcohol Use Disorder


1. Had times when you ended up drinking more, or longer, than you intended?

Who actually plans out ahead of time before you get to a party exactly how much you are going to drink, or how long you will stay? And even if you do that, should it not be allowed to have a few more drinks if it is a good party and with fun people?

I think this is more about things like intending to stop by the pub for a beer and then having several.

6. Continued to drink even though it was causing trouble with your family or friends?

If your real friends are telling you to stop drinking then yeah you should probably consider what they are saying. If your family and friends are a bunch of idiots who don't understand how the brain works, but are quick to judge you, then why should you listen to them.

And your wife isn't a real friend?

8. More than once gotten into situations while or after drinking that increased your chances of getting hurt (such as driving, swimming, using machinery, walking in a dangerous area, or having unsafe sex)?

Life is a mystery. If you want to live inside a protective bubble to keep all the bad things from hurting you, then don't ever drink or do anything that might lead to danger. But if I go to a party and have a few drink, and then end up diving into a swimming pool with new people I just met, I don't think this should be considered a drinking problem. Perhaps the psychologists who made this rule are not very interesting at parties and don't understand how to have fun.

I think you miss the point here. They're talking about doing things drunk that you would have regarded as too dangerous when sober. It's not about whether you take risks in life, but whether alcohol causes you to take risks you otherwise wouldn't have.

11. Found that when the effects of alcohol were wearing off, you had withdrawal symptoms, such as trouble sleeping, shakiness, restlessness, nausea, sweating, a racing heart, or a seizure? Or sensed things that were not there?

This is one of the harsh effects of being a drinker. The withdrawal symptoms are terrible, but at least when I get drunk and smoke some weed and listen to some music, or enjoy a movie, then I can finally sleep. Alcohol lets me relax, and for somebody who suffers from anxiety that's a blessing. I know it's not good for me but neither is sugar or thinking about the people you hate. I know alcohol kills a lot of people every year, much more than drugs do, but if the US tries to outlaw alcohol again then I will be out there in the streets protesting with a bottle of whiskey

If you have withdrawal symptoms you're addicted and thus you're drinking too much. This one alone is diagnostic to me.

Also, as a general answer I would say that asking the question means you probably have a problem.
 

Rhea

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Lately I drink about two or three times a month, but when I do drink it's usually a lot. I live in Texas so it's normal here to try and drink more than your friends. My wife is on fertility drugs because we are trying to have a baby, and her brain is on fire with hormones.


If you wife is trying to get pregnant, and assuming it’s with your sperm, you should know that your sperm on alcohol are more likely to create fetal defects and abnormalities..

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...s-may-contribute-to-birth-defects-in-newborns

New evidence has found a link between paternal alcohol consumption before conception and the chances of fetal birth defects. Fathers who drink alcohol regularly before conception are associated with greater chances of birth defects like congenital heart disease, limb anomalies, clefts, and digestive tract anomalies.


And if that can’t make you stop getting full-pissed-drunk every week for the duration of your conception attempts, then yes, you are letting it interfere with what you really want - a healthy baby.


I'm just looking for logical and reasonable explanations for when it is acceptable to have a drink, if that is possible.


It’s acceptable after your wife conceives and the pregnancy passes the three month mark and the worst risks of miscarriage. But, IMHO, if she can’t drink, then you’re a bit of a dick to drink in front of her throughout the pregnancy and breastfeeding. So make that 2023 or so.
 

Toni

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I don't know you or your life but:
It seems to me that you have minimized each point of the DSM alcohol disorder questionnaire or sought to dismiss the question or danced around answering it to justify your relationship with alcohol. Avoiding direct answers seems like a strong indicator that these questions make you feel uncomfortable. That discomfort may be because you actually recognize that you do indeed have a drinking problem.

1. People who don't have a drinking problem might go to an event or party or just for a night out and have in mind that they plan to only have (X) number of drinks because they know they won't feel their best the next day if they over indulge. Or they think they get a little too silly or argumentative. Or worry about being able to drive. Or whatever. And then: that's what they do. They stop at X drinks. They don't lose track or decide they're having so much fun that another couple of drinks won't make the fun last longer or be more fun. And....if they realize that the drinks were a bit stronger than they expected, they stop earlier or tell their friend that maybe they've over indulged and need to make it an early night and could the friend please drive.

People who have a drinking problem...see no problem with drinking as much as they feel like and they usually feel like one more wouldn't hurt.

2.It seems like you are avoiding answering this question. Why?

3. Avoidance again and quibbling over the particulars of the question. Is it hitting too close to home? FWIW, if your 25 and drink a six pack or equivalent a few times a week, you are hurting your liver. Your liver can't handle it. You're just young and think you'll live forever.

4. Again---avoidance. You're coming up with reasons that it IS ok to want a drink so badly you can't think of anything else and justifying getting drunk to avoid hurting other people. Why? Do you have impulses about hurting other people that can only be quelled by drinking? That seems problematic.

5. Hangovers are not necessarily part of drinking. If one drinks in moderation, most people do not have hangovers. If you have a hangover, that's a sign of alcohol poisoning and you definitely drank too much. If you think this is normal, then you do not have a good understanding of what normal drinking is.

6. Again, avoiding answering the question. These questions are not to be answered as applies to some generic person or across a population. The question is about YOU. Does YOUR drinking cause problems with YOUR friends and family? Should be a pretty easy yes/no/sometimes/maybe

7 OK

8. You seem to equate drinking and risky behavior with the way that people have fun. That might be problematic. Especially if you think people who don't drink a lot and then dive into pools at parties don't know how to have fun.

9. OK.

10. Avoidance again and blaming your 'Viking heritage?????'

11. The symptoms described in the question are not normally experienced by people who have a healthy, non-dependent relationship with alcohol. It sounds like you do experience withdrawal and that is a serious symptom of alcohol dependence. You also identified experiencing anxiety but it isn't clear if this is a symptom of alcohol withdrawal or a reason that you DO drink. If you have anxiety, as many, many people do, there might be safer and healthier ways for you to deal with this issue rather than risk your liver and your relationships.
 

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Ok thank you very much everyone for all the comments and replies. I think I'll give it a a rest for at least 3 months, or until we can get pregnant, and then maybe limit my drinking to about once a month to see if that works better.
 

Harry Bosch

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I'll admit it, I'm a heavy drinker! But I only drink on the weekends on an athletic excursion type of trip (ski trip, fishing trip, kayaking, or hiking trip). I drink heavy on those types of outings with my friends.
Then, I'll drink a few beers (at most 3 or 4) when at a party at a friends house or at home. But I never drink outside of that. Never drink at home when I'm just with the family. Never drink alone. The only exception, is when my mother-in-law stays overstays her welcome when staying with us and I need a break! But that is very often. I used to go to a local pow-wow with a group of guys I grew up that really turned into heavy heavy drinking and drugs. But stay away now. I've noticed that I feel much better (sleep better also) on days that I don't drink anything.
 

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I find this interesting as a person who thought they were prone to addiction. Later in life, I realize now that I really am not prone to addiction at all. I have come to believe that the genetic component must play a much larger role than is generally thought.
There were times in my life when I could consume obscene quantities of cocaine and tequila, regularly and for months on end. And cigarettes. I avoided all opiates for fear of being addicted. I never really quit any of them, just stopped. First cocaine and freebase (I had been interested in chemistry and actually learned how to - and did - purify black market cocaine into pure flake) because they were expensive and had after-effects that I found unpleasant. Stopping coke destroyed my tolerance for alcohol, so alcohol consumption dropped to near nothing - again because of nasty after-effects, not because I decided to quit. I continued to smoke, but switched to cigars thinking it would give my lungs a break. When I quit smoking, that too was a non-event. I put a cigar in my designated smoking spot, and left it there for a few weeks in case I changed my mind about wanting to smoke it, but never did. Finally threw it away. I have learned over the years that I have very low tolerance for opiate-type painkillers. Every few years I throw out old one that were prescribed for injury, dental pain etc.. After one or two doses, the prospect of taking that shit seems worse than the pain, so I don't. The only habit that endures is pot, which I have always enjoyed. But the strength of modern weed is not such that one can sit around smoking it - at least the variety I have been growing. A hit or two in the evening is about all it takes. And quitting it for a week or a month or few is never an issue if I am traveling or otherwise preoccupied. I still like alcohol sometimes - last week I had a drink three days in a row. That was after zero alcohol for several months due to my inability to remember to go to the liquor store. It might be weeks before it occurs to me to have another drink, I don't know and am not concerned.

Anyhow, I see people struggling to get over addictions to ALL those things and have long felt some level of disdain for their inability to control their impulses. Now I am sure that those "impulses" are far stronger than any that I have ever felt, and must be rooted in some genetic proclivity. If addiction was more related to environmental conditions, I don't believe the struggle would be so great. When Harry says " I've noticed that I feel much better (sleep better also) on days that I don't drink anything" it tells me that he doesn't suffer the genetic form of addiction so much. In fact he says he only drinks on weekends etc., which I don't think would be that case if he was truly addicted, regardless of how heavily he drinks when he drinks. But some people are truly preoccupied with the object(s) of their addiction and do not suffer effects that are so undesirable as to overwhelm their urge to consume. I feel very sorry for such folks, and hear Smoker's plea for clarification as coming from a place of real dilemma.

Smoker, if you are concerned about the possibility of being an alcoholic, I don't think it's constructive to externalize the issue by holding yourself up to contrived metrics of addiction/non-addiction. If you are really wondering if you drink "too much", you must know that it's not a question for someone else to answer unless you know you ARE drinking too much, and are seeking an outside influence to get you to stop.
I wish there was a pill or something... maybe there will be, but it will probably be addictive. :(
As it is, the only thing that can overcome genetically rooted proclivities is your own will, reinforced by negative associations with alcohol and positive associations with abstinence. If you don't have those associations, there's no reason to stop or even reduce drinking. There must be some inkling of those associations currently operating in your psyche or you wouldn't be asking about it.
 

Wiploc

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Am I drinking too much?

I have been a fan of drinking for a long time because I like to enjoy life and howl at the moon sometimes ...

Back when I was doing law, one of my clients, apropos of nothing, said indignantly, "You can't be charged with bad check if you didn't sign the check, can you?"

Me: "Sure, yes."

Client: "Why?"

Me: "Because of the part you didn't tell me."

---

The part she hadn't told me:

- She stole the checks.

- She filled them out.

- She had someone else sign them.

- She cashed them.
 

southernhybrid

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Ok thank you very much everyone for all the comments and replies. I think I'll give it a a rest for at least 3 months, or until we can get pregnant, and then maybe limit my drinking to about once a month to see if that works better.

That sounds like a good plan, especially since you guys are trying to get pregnant. Hope it works out well for you.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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I'd like to reinforce Elixir's comments. I enjoy a few drinks but my body doesn't approve. If I drink a six pack I'll get sick and be throwing up. Other people can down a case a day and never get sick or have hangovers.

Addiction to alcohol is impossible for me. A pleasant buzz occasionally is as far as it will get. For others in my extended family addiction to alcohol was a way of life, some dying of liver failure in their sixties.

The test seems to be whether there's a "I've had too much and now I'm sick" threshold. If that doesn't happen then the person has a problem.
 

WAB

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I have a major drinking problem right now:

I don't have enough money to get as drunk as I'd like to be.



***

Little question:

Do skunks really get that drunk?
 

Rhea

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Ok thank you very much everyone for all the comments and replies. I think I'll give it a a rest for at least 3 months, or until we can get pregnant, and then maybe limit my drinking to about once a month to see if that works better.

I am glad for your choice. You had me worried. I hope everything goes great with your family plans.
 

steve_bank

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Growing up in the 50s 60s my extended family were 'functional alcoholics'. Heavy drinkers who mainaed work and paying bills.

Multiple DUI. Several died from chronic drinking.

As this is a morality thread, when you drink a lot and have long term consequences is is the greater society that has to deal with it, like haelth care. It is ad alcohol and drugs are major health care cost drivers, along with tobacco. I have ssen whne I was rehabbing from medical problems.
p
Kidney failure and dialysis is no joke. My first roommate in a nursing home died during dialysis from a blood clot. It takes peole days to recover.

I doubt most people know why they drink. It starts when we are kids mimicking adults. We think its cool, and drinking is reinforced in adverting, tv, and movies.

I do not need it anymore. I feel good without it, don't need it to socialize or deal with boredom and if anything it would bring me down. Don't need alcohol, pot, or drugs to feel alive.

In the old movies it was happy have a drink, down have a drink, nothing to do have a drink, upset have a drink.

Alcohol at any level is a habit.

I think you are fooling yourself id you think you are not addictive, we all are. Marketing plays on it.

Pluss peer pressure. I live in a senior building. There is a group of gus who drink every day on our roof deck. When I moved in there was peer pressure to drink with them. Peer pressure and drinking go hand in hand starting when we are kids..
 

rousseau

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Growing up in the 50s 60s my extended family were 'functional alcoholics'. Heavy drinkers who mainaed work and paying bills.

Multiple DUI. Several died from chronic drinking.

As this is a morality thread, when you drink a lot and have long term consequences is is the greater society that has to deal with it, like haelth care. It is ad alcohol and drugs are major health care cost drivers, along with tobacco. I have ssen whne I was rehabbing from medical problems.
p
Kidney failure and dialysis is no joke. My first roommate in a nursing home died during dialysis from a blood clot. It takes peole days to recover.

I doubt most people know why they drink. It starts when we are kids mimicking adults. We think its cool, and drinking is reinforced in adverting, tv, and movies.

I do not need it anymore. I feel good without it, don't need it to socialize or deal with boredom and if anything it would bring me down. Don't need alcohol, pot, or drugs to feel alive.

In the old movies it was happy have a drink, down have a drink, nothing to do have a drink, upset have a drink.

Alcohol at any level is a habit.

I think you are fooling yourself id you think you are not addictive, we all are. Marketing plays on it.

Pluss peer pressure. I live in a senior building. There is a group of gus who drink every day on our roof deck. When I moved in there was peer pressure to drink with them. Peer pressure and drinking go hand in hand starting when we are kids..
This, and I don't think a lot of people realize the extent that the addiction actually drives the desire. If you break the addiction you just won't want to do it anymore.

Lately, I actually feel disinclined to drink, most of the time. I feel better without it. This is because my body is acclimated to sobriety.
 

Smoker

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Not drinking for 3 months is a lot harder to do than I thought it would be. I guess I am probably using alcohol as a way to relax as someone who has anxiety in social situations. I promised my wife I would not get drunk for the next year, but we both know that this is an Idealist thing to promise and I will not technically keep this promise, but at least I am trying

I am wondering if I am capable of having a few drinks with my friends, and not getting drunk and howling at the moon. I might be one of those people that is not capable of stopping after one or two drinks
 

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I should maybe switch to hallucinogens instead. Nobody ever gets addicted to LSD or Peyote. The last time I ate peyote I saw sprits that told me to stop drinking so much. I saw a vision of the fire in my mind being put out slowly by all the beer I drink.
 

thebeave

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Not drinking for 3 months is a lot harder to do than I thought it would be. I guess I am probably using alcohol as a way to relax as someone who has anxiety in social situations. I promised my wife I would not get drunk for the next year, but we both know that this is an Idealist thing to promise and I will not technically keep this promise, but at least I am trying

I am wondering if I am capable of having a few drinks with my friends, and not getting drunk and howling at the moon. I might be one of those people that is not capable of stopping after one or two drinks

Judging by your username and avatar, maybe drinking isn't really your biggest problem right now. Just sayin'.
 

abaddon

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I should maybe switch to hallucinogens instead. Nobody ever gets addicted to LSD or Peyote. The last time I ate peyote I saw sprits that told me to stop drinking so much. I saw a vision of the fire in my mind being put out slowly by all the beer I drink.

Or just stop looking to mind-altering chemistry to save you from yourself.

The reason you're finding it hard to stop drinking is because you're fused with your "stinking thinking" about alcohol. There's the AV (Addictive Voice) who keeps making excuses: "it's a social lubricant", "you'll feel better", "there's no fun in life without it", and on and on. So it's a war with yourself - the struggle's like an angel on the right shoulder and a devil on the left.

The end of the misery comes when this arguing with yourself stops. So, why not just have the argument ONCE AND FOR ALL, instead of day after day? Get a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle, and tell all the reasons to drink on the left side. Then on the right side tell why those reasons don't support a happily healthy life that's free of the unhappiness-causing impulses. Pick a side, and declare it the once-and-for-all winner.

You need to identify what the need-to-drink impulsing is, and who you are. You're not an addiction, you're YOU. So next time YOU hear the addiction trying to start the argument again, realize it's an impulse trying to control you with deceptive excuses. Say "Nope! I won this argument already!" and don't indulge it even for a second.

The AV will get weak with time and eventually shut up. But in the meantime, when the AV's trying to start up the arguing again, adamantly shut it down. It does that to wear you down. But clearly there's no good reason to go on and on with an argument that your opponent already lost. It's not the lack of drink that makes you miserable, it's being "at war with yourself". Don't have the war with yourself, have it with the AV - and decisively, ruthlessly, and once and for all, choose that your Self wins against the AV.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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I should maybe switch to hallucinogens instead. Nobody ever gets addicted to LSD or Peyote. The last time I ate peyote I saw sprits that told me to stop drinking so much. I saw a vision of the fire in my mind being put out slowly by all the beer I drink.

Or just stop looking to mind-altering chemistry to save you from yourself.

The reason you're finding it hard to stop drinking is because you're fused with your "stinking thinking" about alcohol. There's the AV (Addictive Voice) who keeps making excuses: "it's a social lubricant", "you'll feel better", "there's no fun in life without it", and on and on. So it's a war with yourself - the struggle's like an angel on the right shoulder and a devil on the left.

The end of the misery comes when this arguing with yourself stops. So, why not just have the argument ONCE AND FOR ALL, instead of day after day? Get a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle, and tell all the reasons to drink on the left side. Then on the right side tell why those reasons don't support a happily healthy life that's free of the unhappiness-causing impulses. Pick a side, and declare it the once-and-for-all winner.

You need to identify what the need-to-drink impulsing is, and who you are. You're not an addiction, you're YOU. So next time YOU hear the addiction trying to start the argument again, realize it's an impulse trying to control you with deceptive excuses. Say "Nope! I won this argument already!" and don't indulge it even for a second.

The AV will get weak with time and eventually shut up. But in the meantime, when the AV's trying to start up the arguing again, adamantly shut it down. It does that to wear you down. But clearly there's no good reason to go on and on with an argument that your opponent already lost. It's not the lack of drink that makes you miserable, it's being "at war with yourself". Don't have the war with yourself, have it with the AV - and decisively, ruthlessly, and once and for all, choose that your Self wins against the AV.

That's not going to fix the brain architecture and chemistry that makes for addiction. Addiction is a physical thing. Some people are 5' 2" tall and some people are 6' 2" tall. You can't tell the person who is shorter to write down on a paper all the good and bad things compared to being a foot taller and expect it to make a difference in how tall they are.

Knowing as much, however, arms a person with more knowledge about what is actually occurring and more knowledge is always a good thing. It doesn't make a given condition any better or worse, only brings a bit of closure, understanding. The condition is still there.
 

rousseau

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I started cutting back on my drinking in 2012 when I had a mild addiction (but not alcoholism). I didn't become a non-drinker until 2018. Since then I've likely had a handful of drinks. Point being that you can't expect to change addiction overnight, but with consistent, and sustained effort to push against it over a long period of time you'll start drinking less.

But then, I'm also of the view that some people are just genetically an alcoholic. My brother is this way, no matter how little he drinks he always wants to drink, so it pretty much comes down to his willpower.
 

abaddon

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That's not going to fix the brain architecture and chemistry that makes for addiction. Addiction is a physical thing. Some people are 5' 2" tall and some people are 6' 2" tall. You can't tell the person who is shorter to write down on a paper all the good and bad things compared to being a foot taller and expect it to make a difference in how tall they are.

Knowing as much, however, arms a person with more knowledge about what is actually occurring and more knowledge is always a good thing. It doesn't make a given condition any better or worse, only brings a bit of closure, understanding. The condition is still there.

I'm talking from experience, as a former alcohol addict (aka "alcoholic") who recovered by doing exactly what I wrote. It's a secular (non-12-step) treatment for addictions called AVRT (addictive voice recognition technique).

If the ideological bullshit you're blabbering were true, then I (and many others) can't have got over an addiction using psycho-therapeutic intervention.

I used the exact same technique to quit my nicotine addiction a year after I had recovered from alcoholism using it.

The universal trait of all addicts are the cognitive distortions that justify the behavior. They sustain the addiction by making excuses for the self-harming behavior. Change the bodily behavior by changing the thought pattern that sustains it, and the brain will change.
 

rousseau

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That's not going to fix the brain architecture and chemistry that makes for addiction. Addiction is a physical thing. Some people are 5' 2" tall and some people are 6' 2" tall. You can't tell the person who is shorter to write down on a paper all the good and bad things compared to being a foot taller and expect it to make a difference in how tall they are.

Knowing as much, however, arms a person with more knowledge about what is actually occurring and more knowledge is always a good thing. It doesn't make a given condition any better or worse, only brings a bit of closure, understanding. The condition is still there.

I'm talking from experience, as a former alcohol addict (aka "alcoholic") who recovered by doing exactly what I wrote. It's a secular (non-12-step) treatment for addictions called AVRT (addictive voice recognition technique).

If the ideological bullshit you're blabbering were true, then I (and many others) can't have got over an addiction using psycho-therapeutic intervention.

I used the exact same technique to quit my nicotine addiction a year after I recovered from alcoholism too.
Both of your posts are very much in congruence.

Addiction is about brain chemistry and by changing our habits we change our brain chemistry and structure. But addiction is complex, for some the structure may be less malleable than for others.

So by doing something like ignoring the addictive voice, that voice will literally become weaker as the brain becomes less physically reliant on alcohol.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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That's not going to fix the brain architecture and chemistry that makes for addiction. Addiction is a physical thing. Some people are 5' 2" tall and some people are 6' 2" tall. You can't tell the person who is shorter to write down on a paper all the good and bad things compared to being a foot taller and expect it to make a difference in how tall they are.

Knowing as much, however, arms a person with more knowledge about what is actually occurring and more knowledge is always a good thing. It doesn't make a given condition any better or worse, only brings a bit of closure, understanding. The condition is still there.

I'm talking from experience, as a former alcohol addict (aka "alcoholic") who recovered by doing exactly what I wrote. It's a secular (non-12-step) treatment for addictions called AVRT (addictive voice recognition technique).

If the ideological bullshit you're blabbering were true, then I (and many others) can't have got over an addiction using psycho-therapeutic intervention.

I used the exact same technique to quit my nicotine addiction a year after I recovered from alcoholism too.
Both of your posts are very much in congruence.

Addiction is about brain chemistry and by changing our habits we change our brain chemistry and structure. But addiction is complex, for some the structure may be less malleable than for others.

So by doing something like ignoring the addictive voice, that voice will literally become weaker as the brain becomes less physically reliant on alcohol.

It's probably more accurate to say that not all addicts can change their behavior.
 

rousseau

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Both of your posts are very much in congruence.

Addiction is about brain chemistry and by changing our habits we change our brain chemistry and structure. But addiction is complex, for some the structure may be less malleable than for others.

So by doing something like ignoring the addictive voice, that voice will literally become weaker as the brain becomes less physically reliant on alcohol.

It's probably more accurate to say that not all addicts can change their behavior.
That's kind of what I was getting at with the 'malleable' line, but I realize now that my post wasn't worded well.

For some addiction is fixable, for others it's very difficult to fix. In the latter case I've seen people replace alcohol with a placebo.
 

WAB

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That's not going to fix the brain architecture and chemistry that makes for addiction. Addiction is a physical thing. Some people are 5' 2" tall and some people are 6' 2" tall. You can't tell the person who is shorter to write down on a paper all the good and bad things compared to being a foot taller and expect it to make a difference in how tall they are.

Knowing as much, however, arms a person with more knowledge about what is actually occurring and more knowledge is always a good thing. It doesn't make a given condition any better or worse, only brings a bit of closure, understanding. The condition is still there.

I'm talking from experience, as a former alcohol addict (aka "alcoholic") who recovered by doing exactly what I wrote. It's a secular (non-12-step) treatment for addictions called AVRT (addictive voice recognition technique).

If the ideological bullshit you're blabbering were true, then I (and many others) can't have got over an addiction using psycho-therapeutic intervention.

I used the exact same technique to quit my nicotine addiction a year after I had recovered from alcoholism using it.

The universal trait of all addicts are the cognitive distortions that justify the behavior. They sustain the addiction by making excuses for the self-harming behavior. Change the bodily behavior by changing the thought pattern that sustains it, and the brain will change.

I am of two minds about addiction. On one hand I believe that it can be overcome with enough effort and enough help - with proper guidance, determination, and medication. I believe this because I know many alcoholics and/or drug addicts who have not used in decades.

I also think Moogly is corrrect that in some, addiction cannot be fixed. I am in this category. It isn't that I cannot stop using some kind of mind-altering chemical. I stopped drinking when I got married at 32, and didn't drink a drop for 8 years. BUT, during that time I substituted dyphenhydramine and/or dextromethorphan for alcohol. Even when I returned to drinking during my break up and subsequent divorce, I still used DXM, and did for more than 20 years). I believe it helped with my depression and anxiety, but it also ate away at my brain, so that my memory is now a shambles, and I am noticeably dumber now than I was when I was in my 20s and 30s. Really, everyone who knows me knows it, even my kids, and especially my siblings and parents.

Even now, at 57, I am forced to be sober because I am on probation and one slip could get me incarcerated. I fear going to jail more than anything, more than death, and more than bad health. But I am miserable. Even on meds, with no mind-enhancing chemicals to interfere with their effectiveness, I am not necessarily suicidal or hopelessly depressed, nor do I enter wildly manic phases, so they do stabilize me; but I feel no pleasurable effects from them, and they are not designed to do so. My caregivers will NOT let me have trancs, or any mind-altering drug, because of my addictive nature, and because I tell them proactively that I WILL probably abuse any such drugs, especially something like a heavy tranquilizer. Give me valium and I will take more than the recommended dose, guaranteed.

So, I am stuck in what they call ham-fisted sobriety. I am this way because, truth be told, without some kind of mental boost, that I can physically feel, I am disinterested, dispassionate, and utterly bored to tears with life. I can feel happy at times, like recently, especially if I stay involved at this site and don't spend all day lying in bed, and if I can maintain working steadily and making money.

BUT - once I am free of probation, I will almost certainly begin to drink, or do something to make my life less boring. I care MORE about enjoying what time I have left than being healthy. I don't give a damn if I drop dead of a stroke or have a heart attack, or if I get run over by a truck. As long as I don't take anyone else with me - which is why I don't drive drunk and have never had a DUI.

Sobriety. Fucking. Sucks. - Ozzy Osbourne.
 

rousseau

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Sobriety. Fucking. Sucks. - Ozzy Osbourne.

I wonder how much of your issue can be attributed to isolation. It's interesting that you managed to stop drinking when you were married, and managed to stay away from it for so long, but have an issue now. Maybe the issue isn't so much sobriety, but boredom.

I definitely get how sobriety can be a bit boring at times, but I find being in a satisfying relationship with my wife interesting enough that I don't really need alcohol or drugs lately. But a number of months ago she went away with our son for a couple days and it didn't take long before I reached for some of my whisky out of boredom. Similarly, last winter the doldrums got bad enough that I started experimenting with CBD oil and edibles. But once summer hit and I could get outside I didn't feel as much of a need.
 

WAB

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Sobriety. Fucking. Sucks. - Ozzy Osbourne.

I wonder how much of your issue can be attributed to isolation. It's interesting that you managed to stop drinking when you were married, and managed to stay away from it for so long, but have an issue now. Maybe the issue isn't so much sobriety, but boredom.

I definitely get how sobriety can be a bit boring at times, but I find being in a satisfying relationship with my wife interesting enough that I don't really need alcohol or drugs lately. But a number of months ago she went away with our son for a couple days and it didn't take long before I reached for some of my whisky out of boredom. Similarly, last winter the doldrums got bad enough that I started experimenting with CBD oil and edibles. But once summer hit and I could get outside I didn't feel as much of a need.

Well, it seems I am only bored when I'm sober, and that I become interested in things only when I'm under the influence of something - be it this manic episode that I now feel has reached a dulling point, or some substance-induced euphoria. I was not always like this. I dimly recall being 13 and 14, before I got my first taste beer at 15. I was apparently not bored then, because I was writing like mad and developing my passions for literature and music, especially poetry and song lyrics, both the reading of and the writing.

I remember that fatal day when my friend Ed and I had our first brush with a beer keg. We both became wildly drunk and happy as larks. Nearly unconscious, and stumbling, we helped one another to wheel our bikes homeward. I had a brief love of weed from around 18 to early 20's. But it never did much for me after that. It is legal here in AZ, but I don't feel remotely compelled to buy it.

Ah well...I do realize how pathetic it is, and I should correct something before I forget: I do not mean to say my addiction(s) literally cannot be fixed. What I mean to say is that I have not yet arrived at a point where I want to get fixed.

I'm dreading my inevitable crash back down to either mundane dullness or another battle with depression. I will either knuckle under due to probation and maintain, or succumb to utter silliness and throw caution to the wind...

We shall see! :joy:

And be happy with that wonderful family of yours! Those were my happiest days, especially when the boys were little.

OH! and now that I have more money, I am going to buy your book!
 

rousseau

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Sobriety. Fucking. Sucks. - Ozzy Osbourne.

I wonder how much of your issue can be attributed to isolation. It's interesting that you managed to stop drinking when you were married, and managed to stay away from it for so long, but have an issue now. Maybe the issue isn't so much sobriety, but boredom.

I definitely get how sobriety can be a bit boring at times, but I find being in a satisfying relationship with my wife interesting enough that I don't really need alcohol or drugs lately. But a number of months ago she went away with our son for a couple days and it didn't take long before I reached for some of my whisky out of boredom. Similarly, last winter the doldrums got bad enough that I started experimenting with CBD oil and edibles. But once summer hit and I could get outside I didn't feel as much of a need.

Well, it seems I am only bored when I'm sober, and that I become interested in things only when I'm under the influence of something

That's kind of what I'm getting at, at this point in your life alcohol is the only thing occupying your time. If you had other outlets like satisfying relationships, hobbies, work etc you wouldn't need to turn to alcohol as much.
 

WAB

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Well, it seems I am only bored when I'm sober, and that I become interested in things only when I'm under the influence of something

That's kind of what I'm getting at, at this point in your life alcohol is the only thing occupying your time. If you had other outlets like satisfying relationships, hobbies, work etc you wouldn't need to turn to alcohol as much.

Yeah, I know. Perhaps at my new job, where there are lots of really outgoing, pleasant people, I can strike up a friendship and start to go out again. We shall see.

I edited my last post - to mention that I do want to get your book now that I've got enough dinero. I don't know if you saw that.
 

rousseau

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Well, it seems I am only bored when I'm sober, and that I become interested in things only when I'm under the influence of something

That's kind of what I'm getting at, at this point in your life alcohol is the only thing occupying your time. If you had other outlets like satisfying relationships, hobbies, work etc you wouldn't need to turn to alcohol as much.

Yeah, I know. Perhaps at my new job, where there are lots of really outgoing, pleasant people, I can strike up a friendship and start to go out again. We shall see.

I edited my last post - to mention that I do want to get your book now that I've got enough dinero. I don't know if you saw that.

Just sent you a PM.
 

WAB

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Yeah, I know. Perhaps at my new job, where there are lots of really outgoing, pleasant people, I can strike up a friendship and start to go out again. We shall see.

I edited my last post - to mention that I do want to get your book now that I've got enough dinero. I don't know if you saw that.

Just sent you a PM.

:cheer:
 

Loren Pechtel

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Sobriety. Fucking. Sucks. - Ozzy Osbourne.

I wonder how much of your issue can be attributed to isolation. It's interesting that you managed to stop drinking when you were married, and managed to stay away from it for so long, but have an issue now. Maybe the issue isn't so much sobriety, but boredom.

I definitely get how sobriety can be a bit boring at times, but I find being in a satisfying relationship with my wife interesting enough that I don't really need alcohol or drugs lately. But a number of months ago she went away with our son for a couple days and it didn't take long before I reached for some of my whisky out of boredom. Similarly, last winter the doldrums got bad enough that I started experimenting with CBD oil and edibles. But once summer hit and I could get outside I didn't feel as much of a need.

An awful lot of drug use is to escape from a shitty life.
 

WAB

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Sobriety. Fucking. Sucks. - Ozzy Osbourne.

I wonder how much of your issue can be attributed to isolation. It's interesting that you managed to stop drinking when you were married, and managed to stay away from it for so long, but have an issue now. Maybe the issue isn't so much sobriety, but boredom.

I definitely get how sobriety can be a bit boring at times, but I find being in a satisfying relationship with my wife interesting enough that I don't really need alcohol or drugs lately. But a number of months ago she went away with our son for a couple days and it didn't take long before I reached for some of my whisky out of boredom. Similarly, last winter the doldrums got bad enough that I started experimenting with CBD oil and edibles. But once summer hit and I could get outside I didn't feel as much of a need.

An awful lot of drug use is to escape from a shitty life.

^This is true, and it is largely true in my case***.

To be exact, it is largely true with respect to my over the top alcoholism in recent years, and my use of other drugs during my marriage, when I didn't drink a drop for 8 years. But that abstinence from alcohol was compelled by three strong factors: I had been promoted to a management position, the first time in my life, at 32; I was going to become a father, first time; and I had just gotten married, also first time. I could not logically, morally, or reasonably reconcile drinking, even moderately, with those three challenges. But the underlying |||||||

I will not repeat, yet again, by way of trying to explain my views, what I've already said in numerous posts of late, because I know my long repetitive "rants" are starting to irritate people I care for and love ---

***But it's not always the case, naturally. A great many major figures in world history were drug user or drug addicts. To list them all would require a thousand pages, or more. It would be hard to argue that their drug use...SCREECH!!

nm.
 

Alcoholic Actuary

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I drink way too much. But I don't want help, and I'm not endangering others, and even given the amount that I drink - I rarely even get buzzed anymore. I think for me it's more about what having a drink in my hand means: "Fuck you! After everything I've been through, there is no way I'm taking any of this shit seriously"

aa
 
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WAB

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I drink way too much. But I don't want help, and I'm not endangering others, and even given the amount that I drink - I rarely even get buzzed anymore. I think for me it's more about what having a drink in my hand means: "Fuck you! After everything I've been through, there is no way I'm taking any of this shit seriously"

aa

Agreed.
 
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