Anarchism/Capitalism Thread Split

[untermensche]

US imperial foreign policy is an outgrowth of US capitalism.

Constant war is done in the service of US capitalism.

Don't blame these bought and paid for politicians.

The problem is US capitalism.

As soon as you see capitalism you then see massive violence to subjugate others.

European Colonialism is an outgrowth of European capitalism.

The problem is this violent amoral system called capitalism.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

US imperial foreign policy is an outgrowth of US capitalism.

For a sufficiently broad definition of "Capitalism", which includes Monetarism, Corporatism, Keynesianism, Welfarism, Supply-Side, Demand-Side, Socialism, Fascism, and Communism.

Don't blame these bought and paid for politicians.

Instead keep electing them and then complain that doing the same thing over and over didn't produce a different result.

Meanwhile, pretend you are a radical when you are in agreement with the majority of the news media, educational establishment, entertainment media, and political establishment. That's very radical. Sing along when "Rage for the Machine" sings "Shilling in the name of" with it's catchy chorus of "Fuck you I will do what they tell me."

 

[untermensche]

US imperial foreign policy is an outgrowth of US capitalism.

For a sufficiently broad definition of "Capitalism", which includes Monetarism, Corporatism, Keynesianism, Welfarism, Supply-Side, Demand-Side, Socialism, Fascism, and Communism.

It is capitalism when it controls a powerful nation.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Keynes or welfare or socialism.

Good old capitalism.

An outgrowth of slavery.

In the US it begins as children chained to workstations and progresses to Vietnam the drug war and the attack of Iraq.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

US imperial foreign policy is an outgrowth of US capitalism.

For a sufficiently broad definition of "Capitalism", which includes Monetarism, Corporatism, Keynesianism, Welfarism, Supply-Side, Demand-Side, Socialism, Fascism, and Communism.

It is capitalism when it controls a powerful nation.

So if Communists take over, kill 20% of their population and impoverish the rest, that is "actually capitalism". Cool. The USSR, PDR China, and North Korea are all Capitalist.

 

[untermensche]

It is capitalism when it controls a powerful nation.

So if Communists take over, kill 20% of their population and impoverish the rest, that is "actually capitalism". Cool. The USSR, PDR China, and North Korea are all Capitalist.

No.

If people screaming they are capitalists attack Iraq we recognize capitalism for what it is.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It is capitalism when it controls a powerful nation.

So if Communists take over, kill 20% of their population and impoverish the rest, that is "actually capitalism". Cool. The USSR, PDR China, and North Korea are all Capitalist.

No.

If people screaming they are capitalists attack Iraq we recognize capitalism for what it is.

Are you seriously trying to tell me the Neocons screamed that they are capitalists, when the core of the anti-war movement was libertarian before the Democrats realized they were wrong to support Bush's wars?

Actually, if you were to tell me that you think something libertarians opposed was done by capitalists, I would believe you think that.

 

[untermensche]

No.

If people screaming they are capitalists attack Iraq we recognize capitalism for what it is.

When did the USSR attack Iraq? You are forgetting your own position now.

GW Bush and a bunch of people who claimed to be lovers of capitalism and enemies of the Soviet system attacked Iraq.

I know.

You are the only real capitalist.

All others that demand they are capitalists are liars.

 

[JohnG]

US imperial foreign policy is an outgrowth of US capitalism.

Constant war is done in the service of US capitalism.

Don't blame these bought and paid for politicians.

The problem is US capitalism.

As soon as you see capitalism you then see massive violence to subjugate others.

European Colonialism is an outgrowth of European capitalism.

The problem is this violent amoral system called capitalism.

I don't disagree, but I would say it's unchecked capitalism, or maybe "late stage" capitalism.

 

[untermensche]

US imperial foreign policy is an outgrowth of US capitalism.

Constant war is done in the service of US capitalism.

Don't blame these bought and paid for politicians.

The problem is US capitalism.

As soon as you see capitalism you then see massive violence to subjugate others.

European Colonialism is an outgrowth of European capitalism.

The problem is this violent amoral system called capitalism.

I don't disagree, but I would say it's unchecked capitalism, or maybe "late stage" capitalism.

As soon as we have capitalism we see European Colonialism. Brutal destructive Colonialism.

Brutality and exploitation of the weak to serve your purposes IS capitalism.

Capitalism IS exploitation.

Profit arises when workers are robbed of the fruits of labor.

The CEO getting 300 times as much as the workers actually doing something.

Workers building something and scum like Trump putting their name on it.

Capitalism turns justice and morality on it's head.

You have pathological liars and thieves like Trump as the pinnacle of success. So worshiped they are elected president.

Capitalism pollutes everything. Beginning with the mind.

It turns many into pathological schemers looking to exploit workers in some way and take the fruit of their labor.

 

[untermensche]

Person A: I need work done, I have money
Person B: I can do work, I want money. Deal?
Person A: Deal.
untermenche: Quit subjugating me!



Person A: I need work done, I have money
Person B: I can do work, I want money. Deal?
Person A: Deal.
untermenche: Quit exploiting me!

Profit arises when workers are robbed of the fruits of labor.

Person A: I got work done that I needed done.
Person B: I got money that I needed.
untermensche: quit robbing me!

Capitalism turns justice and morality on it's head.

Person A: I am happy with how our deal worked out.
Person B: I am happy with how our deal worked out.
untermensche: Quit being so immoral to me!

Capitalism pollutes everything. Beginning with the mind.

Person A: Maybe we can do this again.
Person B: I would like that.
untermensche: Quit polluting my mind!

That is a cartoon version of the history of capitalism.

Real Capitalism.

Capitalist A: There is a child. Let me chain her to a work station for 14 hours a day.
Capitalist B: That's a fine idea. I shall join you.
Anti-capitalist A: That is immoral.
Capitalist A kills Anti-capitalist A & B & C & D & E & F.
Anti-capitalist G gets the government to prohibit child labor.
Capitalist A: You Anti-capitalist scum. How dare you meddle with the free market.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That is a cartoon version of the history of capitalism.

Real Capitalism.

Capitalist A: There is a child. Let me chain her to a work station for 14 hours a day.
Capitalist B: That's a fine idea. I shall join you.
Anti-capitalist A: That is immoral.
Capitalist A kills Anti-capitalist A & B & C & D & E & F.
Anti-capitalist G gets the government to prohibit child labor.
Capitalist A: You Anti-capitalist scum. How dare you meddle with the free market.

So Communist China and North Korea are "real capitalism" while the entire Western world isn't.

 

[untermensche]

That is a cartoon version of the history of capitalism.

Real Capitalism.

Capitalist A: There is a child. Let me chain her to a work station for 14 hours a day.
Capitalist B: That's a fine idea. I shall join you.
Anti-capitalist A: That is immoral.
Capitalist A kills Anti-capitalist A & B & C & D & E & F.
Anti-capitalist G gets the government to prohibit child labor.
Capitalist A: You Anti-capitalist scum. How dare you meddle with the free market.

So Communist China and North Korea are "real capitalism" while the entire Western world isn't.

The Western world is a lot of restrictions put on capitalists from anti-capitalists.

Like forbidding capitalists to exploit children.

Capitalists had no idea it was a problem.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That is a cartoon version of the history of capitalism.

Real Capitalism.

Capitalist A: There is a child. Let me chain her to a work station for 14 hours a day.
Capitalist B: That's a fine idea. I shall join you.
Anti-capitalist A: That is immoral.
Capitalist A kills Anti-capitalist A & B & C & D & E & F.
Anti-capitalist G gets the government to prohibit child labor.
Capitalist A: You Anti-capitalist scum. How dare you meddle with the free market.

So Communist China and North Korea are "real capitalism" while the entire Western world isn't.

The Western world is a lot of restrictions put on capitalists from anti-capitalists.

Like forbidding capitalists to exploit children.

Capitalists had no idea it was a problem.

Which means, by your "logic", that the only truly capitalist places left int he world are places like Communist China and North Korea.

 

[untermensche]

The Western world is a lot of restrictions put on capitalists from anti-capitalists.

Like forbidding capitalists to exploit children.

Capitalists had no idea it was a problem.

Which means, by your "logic", that the only truly capitalist places left int he world are places like Communist China and North Korea.

Doesn't follow.

The capitalists are the people who chained children to work stations until anti-capitalists used the power of the government to stop it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The Western world is a lot of restrictions put on capitalists from anti-capitalists.

Like forbidding capitalists to exploit children.

Capitalists had no idea it was a problem.

Which means, by your "logic", that the only truly capitalist places left int he world are places like Communist China and North Korea.

Doesn't follow.

The capitalists are the people who chained children to work stations until anti-capitalists used the power of the government to stop it.

You consider child labor to be "evidence" of capitalism. In Communist China they have suicide nets to prevent their child laborers from jumping to their deaths. Egro Communist China is your idea of how a Capitalist country operates.

 

[untermensche]

Doesn't follow.

The capitalists are the people who chained children to work stations until anti-capitalists used the power of the government to stop it.

You consider child labor to be "evidence" of capitalism. In Communist China they have suicide nets to prevent their child laborers from jumping to their deaths. Egro Communist China is your idea of how a Capitalist country operates.

I consider capitalism as it first appears without government regulation as including and justifying brutal conditions for child and adult labor.

The Chinese economy right now is capitalist. Yes.

Capitalism has no connection to democracy.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Doesn't follow.

The capitalists are the people who chained children to work stations until anti-capitalists used the power of the government to stop it.

You consider child labor to be "evidence" of capitalism. In Communist China they have suicide nets to prevent their child laborers from jumping to their deaths. Egro Communist China is your idea of how a Capitalist country operates.

I consider capitalism as it first appears without government regulation as including and justifying brutal conditions for child and adult labor.

The Chinese economy right now is capitalist. Yes.

Capitalism has no connection to democracy.

So, based on your definition of capitalism, the US is not capitalist?

 

[untermensche]

I consider capitalism as it first appears without government regulation as including and justifying brutal conditions for child and adult labor.

The Chinese economy right now is capitalist. Yes.

Capitalism has no connection to democracy.

So, based on your definition of capitalism, the US is not capitalist?

By having no connection that means capitalism can exist with or without democracy. When it exists with democracy it corrupts that democracy.

US capitalism is capitalism held down to an extent and made less destructive by the actions of anti-capitalists.

A union is an anti-capitalist institution.

That is why US capitalists attacked and killed their leaders and members.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I consider capitalism as it first appears without government regulation as including and justifying brutal conditions for child and adult labor.

The Chinese economy right now is capitalist. Yes.

Capitalism has no connection to democracy.

So, based on your definition of capitalism, the US is not capitalist?

By having no connection that means capitalism can exist with or without democracy. When it exists with democracy it corrupts that democracy.

US capitalism is capitalism held down to an extent and made less destructive by the actions of anti-capitalists.

A union is an anti-capitalist institution.

That is why US capitalists attacked and killed their leaders and members.

I haven't attacked or killed anyone. And I'm very much against "brutal child and adult labor conditions". And yet, I own capital; own a company; and have employees. What the heck am I!

 

[untermensche]

By having no connection that means capitalism can exist with or without democracy. When it exists with democracy it corrupts that democracy.

US capitalism is capitalism held down to an extent and made less destructive by the actions of anti-capitalists.

A union is an anti-capitalist institution.

That is why US capitalists attacked and killed their leaders and members.

I haven't attacked or killed anyone. And I'm very much against "brutal child and adult labor conditions". And yet, I own capital; own a company; and have employees. What the heck am I!

You are constrained by the work of anti-capitalists.

We can thank anti-capitalists for a decent society where what capitalists can do to others is limited.

Capitalism as it emerges in the US is just more efficient slavery.

You pay less for the slave and if they get hurt or sick you throw them away.