And now from the great state of North Carolina I give you Thom Tillis

[dismal]

We could have federal bathroom monitors empowered to hand out fines and prison time.

You do agree this would be more effective than signs?

Do you agree a federal law mandating employees wash their hands would be more effective than a federal law allowing employees not to wash their hands but mandating the employer post a sign to that effect?

ETA - Actually, I suppose a more relevant adjective given Tillis's stated philosophy would be "burdensome"

The study I linked earlier says the signs have some effect on women and no effect on men. I believe the study is flawed in several ways, however. Not the least of which they introduced an observer. Also, they appear to have introduced a new sign for certain of the observations. A new sign where one has never existed before and the presence of an observer would likely produce a different result than a sign that has been in the same place every day for a long time. I suspect a permanent sign would eventually blend into background noise and people would revert to whatever their normal disposition was.

The study is also flawed by the typical flaws one sees in these sorts of studies (small sample, non-representative sample, etc.)

Finally, if Tillis proposal were adopted I imagine approximately no one would post a sign in their restaurant saying they did not require employees to wash their hands, so the net effect on aggregate handwashing of adopting his proposal would be approximately zero.

Now, if you really want to get serious about increasing handwashing you don't need signs you need observers with enforcement powers.

 

[laughing dog]

I wash my hands every time after responding to a dismal post.

I wash my eyes and brains after seeing one of dismal's posts.

 

[jonatha]

Now, if you really want to get serious about increasing handwashing you don't need signs you need observers with enforcement powers.

Tilllis's complaint isn't about handwashing, it's about Big Gubmint Mandates.

Which he proposes to fix by replacing one Big Gubmint Mandate with another.

Which is why everybody with more than one digit in their IQ is going

 

[dismal]

Now, if you really want to get serious about increasing handwashing you don't need signs you need observers with enforcement powers.

Tilllis's complaint isn't about handwashing, it's about Big Gubmint Mandates.

Which he proposes to fix by replacing one Big Gubmint Mandate with another.

Which is why everybody with more than one digit in their IQ is going

I don't disagree. I don't imagine he had spent a lot of time crafting this proposal.

But in the great annals of stupid proposals by politicians it seems among the least harmful.

 

[Rhea]

The study I linked earlier says the signs have some effect on women and no effect on men. I believe the study is flawed in several ways, however. Not the least of which they introduced an observer.

This is actually very easy to test right here on TFT.

Whenever you observe someone else in the washroom, you are an observer. So we could do a poll of men and women, "what percentage of people that you observe in a public restroom wash their hands?" and "do you wash your hands when unobserved?" If the two numbers agree among men, then observers are irrelevant to men. If the two numbers agree among women, then observers are irrelevant to women. If they don't agree, then observers make a difference.

G'head. Post it in the science forum, see what you get.

 

[dismal]

The study I linked earlier says the signs have some effect on women and no effect on men. I believe the study is flawed in several ways, however. Not the least of which they introduced an observer.

This is actually very easy to test right here on TFT.

Whenever you observe someone else in the washroom, you are an observer. So we could do a poll of men and women, "what percentage of people that you observe in a public restroom wash their hands?" and "do you wash your hands when unobserved?" If the two numbers agree among men, then observers are irrelevant to men. If the two numbers agree among women, then observers are irrelevant to women. If they don't agree, then observers make a difference.

G'head. Post it in the science forum, see what you get.

Asking people what they do is an obviously flawed way to determine the facts. You would need to run a controlled study were one group of people was aware they were being observed and another was not.

But do you actually think signs change behavior but government handwashing observers with the power to hand out fines and prison time would not?

 

[Rhea]

This is actually very easy to test right here on TFT.

Whenever you observe someone else in the washroom, you are an observer. So we could do a poll of men and women, "what percentage of people that you observe in a public restroom wash their hands?" and "do you wash your hands when unobserved?" If the two numbers agree among men, then observers are irrelevant to men. If the two numbers agree among women, then observers are irrelevant to women. If they don't agree, then observers make a difference.

G'head. Post it in the science forum, see what you get.

Asking people what they do is an obviously flawed way to determine the facts. You would need to run a controlled study were one group of people was aware they were being observed and another was not.

But do you actually think signs change behavior but government handwashing observers with the power to hand out fines and prison time would not?

I have not answered your scenario that obviously no one intends to fund or run because no one intends to run or fund it.
I have told you my opinion that the signs have made a difference and I believe they will continue to. This is based on my many years as an observer in women's rooms.

And Thom Tillis is a nutbag with nutbag ideas.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

A couple of things

History has proven there is no de-regulation only re-regulation, swapping one rule for another.
Thom Tillis has the foresight of of a thrice blind mouse and the imagination of amoeba.

 

[bleubird]

Food service hygiene is one place where the market magic does work.Not sure about all states,but,in Alaska food safety is put on the restaurant.You need only to have a certificate for food service.

 

[bilby]

The study I linked earlier says the signs have some effect on women and no effect on men. I believe the study is flawed in several ways, however. Not the least of which they introduced an observer.

This is actually very easy to test right here on TFT.

Whenever you observe someone else in the washroom, you are an observer. So we could do a poll of men and women, "what percentage of people that you observe in a public restroom wash their hands?" and "do you wash your hands when unobserved?" If the two numbers agree among men, then observers are irrelevant to men. If the two numbers agree among women, then observers are irrelevant to women. If they don't agree, then observers make a difference.

G'head. Post it in the science forum, see what you get.

A couple of years ago I was in a busy pub* in Melbourne on a Saturday night. The place was packed with football fans**, so even the gents had a line for the facilities - albeit not a very long one compared to the ladies.

As I waited my turn, a steady stream of men who had finished their business came out past the wash-hand basins without a pause (these were patrons, not food handling staff). They were being observed by the line of guys waiting to get in, but this had no effect on their behaviour.

After I had my turn, I stopped to wash my hands, and as I was drying them, I noticed that the flow of departing patrons had stopped; the people behind me, seeing me wash my hands, and still under the scrutiny of a line of guys waiting to go in, were now lining up to wash their hands on the way out.

Make of this anecdote what you will.



* Young and Jacksons, opposite Flinders Street Station. They brew a very nice Hefeweizen, called Naked Ale, which I can recommend, but it does go right through you after the eighth or ninth pint.***

** Hawthorne supporters for the most part. Their team had won, so they were in high spirits, and were drinking more than enough beer to keep the line for the gents going. Melbournians certainly know how to enjoy their sport.

*** I have only patchy recollections of the night after the 15th or 16th pint, but I did wake up in my hotel room the next morning day, so I suppose it went pretty well. There was delicious roast Pork Belly at one point. And some more beer. And singing.

 

[dismal]

This is actually very easy to test right here on TFT.

Whenever you observe someone else in the washroom, you are an observer. So we could do a poll of men and women, "what percentage of people that you observe in a public restroom wash their hands?" and "do you wash your hands when unobserved?" If the two numbers agree among men, then observers are irrelevant to men. If the two numbers agree among women, then observers are irrelevant to women. If they don't agree, then observers make a difference.

G'head. Post it in the science forum, see what you get.

A couple of years ago I was in a busy pub* in Melbourne on a Saturday night. The place was packed with football fans**, so even the gents had a line for the facilities - albeit not a very long one compared to the ladies.

As I waited my turn, a steady stream of men who had finished their business came out past the wash-hand basins without a pause (these were patrons, not food handling staff). They were being observed by the line of guys waiting to get in, but this had no effect on their behaviour.

After I had my turn, I stopped to wash my hands, and as I was drying them, I noticed that the flow of departing patrons had stopped; the people behind me, seeing me wash my hands, and still under the scrutiny of a line of guys waiting to go in, were now lining up to wash their hands on the way out.

Make of this anecdote what you will.



* Young and Jacksons, opposite Flinders Street Station. They brew a very nice Hefeweizen, called Naked Ale, which I can recommend, but it does go right through you after the eighth or ninth pint.***

** Hawthorne supporters for the most part. Their team had won, so they were in high spirits, and were drinking more than enough beer to keep the line for the gents going. Melbournians certainly know how to enjoy their sport.

*** I have only patchy recollections of the night after the 15th or 16th pint, but I did wake up in my hotel room the next morning day, so I suppose it went pretty well. There was delicious roast Pork Belly at one point. And some more beer. And singing.

Was there a sign involved?

 

[Rhea]

This is actually very easy to test right here on TFT.

Whenever you observe someone else in the washroom, you are an observer. So we could do a poll of men and women, "what percentage of people that you observe in a public restroom wash their hands?" and "do you wash your hands when unobserved?" If the two numbers agree among men, then observers are irrelevant to men. If the two numbers agree among women, then observers are irrelevant to women. If they don't agree, then observers make a difference.

G'head. Post it in the science forum, see what you get.

A couple of years ago I was in a busy pub* in Melbourne on a Saturday night. The place was packed with football fans**, so even the gents had a line for the facilities - albeit not a very long one compared to the ladies.

As I waited my turn, a steady stream of men who had finished their business came out past the wash-hand basins without a pause (these were patrons, not food handling staff). They were being observed by the line of guys waiting to get in, but this had no effect on their behaviour.

After I had my turn, I stopped to wash my hands, and as I was drying them, I noticed that the flow of departing patrons had stopped; the people behind me, seeing me wash my hands, and still under the scrutiny of a line of guys waiting to go in, were now lining up to wash their hands on the way out.

Make of this anecdote what you will.



* Young and Jacksons, opposite Flinders Street Station. They brew a very nice Hefeweizen, called Naked Ale, which I can recommend, but it does go right through you after the eighth or ninth pint.***

** Hawthorne supporters for the most part. Their team had won, so they were in high spirits, and were drinking more than enough beer to keep the line for the gents going. Melbournians certainly know how to enjoy their sport.

*** I have only patchy recollections of the night after the 15th or 16th pint, but I did wake up in my hotel room the next morning day, so I suppose it went pretty well. There was delicious roast Pork Belly at one point. And some more beer. And singing.

Proving that we do not need Homeland Security agents to observe and arrest, we only need them to stand there and make a good example to the pig men who think nothing of touching their penis and then shaking YOUR hand (or handling YOUR food).

 

[dismal]

A couple of years ago I was in a busy pub* in Melbourne on a Saturday night. The place was packed with football fans**, so even the gents had a line for the facilities - albeit not a very long one compared to the ladies.

As I waited my turn, a steady stream of men who had finished their business came out past the wash-hand basins without a pause (these were patrons, not food handling staff). They were being observed by the line of guys waiting to get in, but this had no effect on their behaviour.

After I had my turn, I stopped to wash my hands, and as I was drying them, I noticed that the flow of departing patrons had stopped; the people behind me, seeing me wash my hands, and still under the scrutiny of a line of guys waiting to go in, were now lining up to wash their hands on the way out.

Make of this anecdote what you will.



* Young and Jacksons, opposite Flinders Street Station. They brew a very nice Hefeweizen, called Naked Ale, which I can recommend, but it does go right through you after the eighth or ninth pint.***

** Hawthorne supporters for the most part. Their team had won, so they were in high spirits, and were drinking more than enough beer to keep the line for the gents going. Melbournians certainly know how to enjoy their sport.

*** I have only patchy recollections of the night after the 15th or 16th pint, but I did wake up in my hotel room the next morning day, so I suppose it went pretty well. There was delicious roast Pork Belly at one point. And some more beer. And singing.

Proving that we do not need Homeland Security agents to observe and arrest, we only need them to stand there and make a good example to the pig men who think nothing of touching their penis and then shaking YOUR hand (or handling YOUR food).

Assuming this proves that, your plan is what? The government to pay people to wash their hands in every public restroom so there is always a good example? Won't their hands get all wrinkly after a while?

 

[Bronzeage]

A couple of years ago I was in a busy pub* in Melbourne on a Saturday night. The place was packed with football fans**, so even the gents had a line for the facilities - albeit not a very long one compared to the ladies.

As I waited my turn, a steady stream of men who had finished their business came out past the wash-hand basins without a pause (these were patrons, not food handling staff). They were being observed by the line of guys waiting to get in, but this had no effect on their behaviour.

After I had my turn, I stopped to wash my hands, and as I was drying them, I noticed that the flow of departing patrons had stopped; the people behind me, seeing me wash my hands, and still under the scrutiny of a line of guys waiting to go in, were now lining up to wash their hands on the way out.

Make of this anecdote what you will.



* Young and Jacksons, opposite Flinders Street Station. They brew a very nice Hefeweizen, called Naked Ale, which I can recommend, but it does go right through you after the eighth or ninth pint.***

** Hawthorne supporters for the most part. Their team had won, so they were in high spirits, and were drinking more than enough beer to keep the line for the gents going. Melbournians certainly know how to enjoy their sport.

*** I have only patchy recollections of the night after the 15th or 16th pint, but I did wake up in my hotel room the next morning day, so I suppose it went pretty well. There was delicious roast Pork Belly at one point. And some more beer. And singing.

Proving that we do not need Homeland Security agents to observe and arrest, we only need them to stand there and make a good example to the pig men who think nothing of touching their penis and then shaking YOUR hand (or handling YOUR food).

If you really think about it, is there any point to washing one's hands, if you have to touch the faucet knob, before and after washing?

Besides that, I am sure my penis is washed more often than most men's room lavatories. I don't even want to start on what it's like to have to take care of a public toilet used by women.

 

[dismal]

If you really think about it, is there any point to washing one's hands, if you have to touch the faucet knob, before and after washing?

Besides that, I am sure my penis is washed more often than most men's room lavatories. I don't even want to start on what it's like to have to take care of a public toilet used by women.

I think that experts would tell you more handwashing in general would slow down the spread of certain diseases. I'm not sure there is anything particularly correlated to pissing in a urinal that ups the danger, but washing after is probably going to help anyway.

A better cultural norm might be to wash your hands every three(?) hours in a place where people don't defecate.