Angola Bans Islam, Shuts Down Mosques

[Syed]

Actually apostates are singled out for greater punishment than the general non-believer or, at least, are mentioned specifically as being especially heinous. This obviously doesn't mean that those who never accepted Islam are much better off. The Hadith likely base the idea that Allah commands the killing of apostates on the Quran.

He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

— Quran 16:106

what is punishment for apostate? ?

See above quote from the Quran, specifically the highlighted, "he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement."

It seems to be up to the interpretation of the Quran by the various Muslim religious leaders. What would these leaders think a "grievous chastisement" would be? I haven't read the fatwas they issued so don't know if they specify exactly how the apostates are to be killed just that they are to be killed. From the point of these decrees, it seems obvious that the Muslim religious leaders interpret "grievous chastisement" as death at a minimum but maybe even more. Maybe you have read or heard them, you being an apologist for such things, so you should know better than I. You tell me. You have already agreed that such fatwas directing the faithful to kill apostates are issued.

does NOT say to kill apostates

god will deal with them here after

- - - Updated - - -

what is punishment for apostate? ?

Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

No ambiguity there.

allah say NO compulsion in the religion

if ali killed he was WRONG

 

[skepticalbip]

Actually apostates are singled out for greater punishment than the general non-believer or, at least, are mentioned specifically as being especially heinous. This obviously doesn't mean that those who never accepted Islam are much better off. The Hadith likely base the idea that Allah commands the killing of apostates on the Quran.

He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

— Quran 16:106

what is punishment for apostate? ?

See above quote from the Quran, specifically the highlighted, "he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement."

It seems to be up to the interpretation of the Quran by the various Muslim religious leaders. What would these leaders think a "grievous chastisement" would be? I haven't read the fatwas they issued so don't know if they specify exactly how the apostates are to be killed just that they are to be killed. From the point of these decrees, it seems obvious that the Muslim religious leaders interpret "grievous chastisement" as death at a minimum but maybe even more. Maybe you have read or heard them, you being an apologist for such things, so you should know better than I. You tell me. You have already agreed that such fatwas directing the faithful to kill apostates are issued.

does NOT say to kill apostates

god will deal with them here after

Many quranic scholars and Muslim religious leaders disagree with your interpretation of the Quran. Your apologetics have no bearing on the reality of how Islam is actually practiced. Are you claiming that those who's interpretation of the Quran differ from yours (a hell of a lot of Muslim religious leaders and their followers) are agents of Satan intent on destroying your religion? If so then you should do something about it rather than offering justifications for their beliefs and actions. You are well aware that apostates are killed by those following the fatwas of Muslim religious leaders.

I personally don't give a shit what the quran says and care even less about how you interpret it. What concerns me is the actions of those who claim to be followers of Allah who are abusing and killing innocent people in the name of Allah - those faithful Muslims who are blinded by their religion.

 

[Syed]

Actually apostates are singled out for greater punishment than the general non-believer or, at least, are mentioned specifically as being especially heinous. This obviously doesn't mean that those who never accepted Islam are much better off. The Hadith likely base the idea that Allah commands the killing of apostates on the Quran.

He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

— Quran 16:106

what is punishment for apostate? ?

See above quote from the Quran, specifically the highlighted, "he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement."

It seems to be up to the interpretation of the Quran by the various Muslim religious leaders. What would these leaders think a "grievous chastisement" would be? I haven't read the fatwas they issued so don't know if they specify exactly how the apostates are to be killed just that they are to be killed. From the point of these decrees, it seems obvious that the Muslim religious leaders interpret "grievous chastisement" as death at a minimum but maybe even more. Maybe you have read or heard them, you being an apologist for such things, so you should know better than I. You tell me. You have already agreed that such fatwas directing the faithful to kill apostates are issued.

does NOT say to kill apostates

god will deal with them here after

Many quranic scholars and Muslim religious leaders disagree with your interpretation of the Quran. Your apologetics have no bearing on the reality of how Islam is actually practiced. Are you claiming that those who's interpretation of the Quran differ from yours (a hell of a lot of Muslim religious leaders and their followers) are agents of Satan intent on destroying your religion? If so then you should do something about it rather than offering justifications for their beliefs and actions. You are well aware that apostates are killed by those following the fatwas of Muslim religious leaders.

I personally don't give a shit what the quran says and care even less about how you interpret it. What concerns me is the actions of those who claim to be followers of Allah who are abusing and killing innocent people in the name of Allah - those faithful Muslims who are blinded by their religion.

i told you there is no compulsion in religion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_oKXh2oy8E

 

[RavenSky]

Somewhere in this shitpile of a thread was a link to an article with what seemed to be a balanced explanation of what is really happening in Angora. I've looked several times and can't find it this mess of a standard Syed derail...

Can anyone direct me back to the correct post or link? I wanted to finish reading the article. Thanks.

 

[skepticalbip]

Actually apostates are singled out for greater punishment than the general non-believer or, at least, are mentioned specifically as being especially heinous. This obviously doesn't mean that those who never accepted Islam are much better off. The Hadith likely base the idea that Allah commands the killing of apostates on the Quran.

He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

— Quran 16:106

what is punishment for apostate? ?

See above quote from the Quran, specifically the highlighted, "he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement."

It seems to be up to the interpretation of the Quran by the various Muslim religious leaders. What would these leaders think a "grievous chastisement" would be? I haven't read the fatwas they issued so don't know if they specify exactly how the apostates are to be killed just that they are to be killed. From the point of these decrees, it seems obvious that the Muslim religious leaders interpret "grievous chastisement" as death at a minimum but maybe even more. Maybe you have read or heard them, you being an apologist for such things, so you should know better than I. You tell me. You have already agreed that such fatwas directing the faithful to kill apostates are issued.

does NOT say to kill apostates

god will deal with them here after

Many quranic scholars and Muslim religious leaders disagree with your interpretation of the Quran. Your apologetics have no bearing on the reality of how Islam is actually practiced. Are you claiming that those who's interpretation of the Quran differ from yours (a hell of a lot of Muslim religious leaders and their followers) are agents of Satan intent on destroying your religion? If so then you should do something about it rather than offering justifications for their beliefs and actions. You are well aware that apostates are killed by those following the fatwas of Muslim religious leaders.

I personally don't give a shit what the quran says and care even less about how you interpret it. What concerns me is the actions of those who claim to be followers of Allah who are abusing and killing innocent people in the name of Allah - those faithful Muslims who are blinded by their religion.

i told you there is no compulsion in religion

Only by your interpretation. As you well know, there are a hell of a lot of Muslim religious leaders and their followers who disagree strongly with you - this is the face of Islam that the world sees. Religions as well as many other aspects of life are judged by people's actions, not by what the people claim.

To repeat the post you are pretending to be responding to:

I personally don't give a shit what the quran says and care even less about how you interpret it. What concerns me is the actions of those who claim to be followers of Allah who are abusing and killing innocent people in the name of Allah - those faithful Muslims who are blinded by their religion.

 

[skepticalbip]

Somewhere in this shitpile of a thread was a link to an article with what seemed to be a balanced explanation of what is really happening in Angora. I've looked several times and can't find it this mess of a standard Syed derail...

Can anyone direct me back to the correct post or link? I wanted to finish reading the article. Thanks.

Would it be this Wiki article that was linked way back in post #5 by Cheerful Charlie?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Angola

 

[RavenSky]

Somewhere in this shitpile of a thread was a link to an article with what seemed to be a balanced explanation of what is really happening in Angora. I've looked several times and can't find it this mess of a standard Syed derail...

Can anyone direct me back to the correct post or link? I wanted to finish reading the article. Thanks.

Would it be this Wiki article that was linked way back in post #5 by Cheerful Charlie?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Angola

No, but thank you

 

[BH]

Syed,

I think we shouldn't get upset at Angola nor should the rest of the Muslim world. Let's make an example out of Angola that the rest of the world can learn a good lesson about Islam from.

Instead of getting angry and threatening Jihad against Angola why don't Muslims and Muslim countries make it one of the top priorities for our charity? Let's face it. Muslims and Muslim nations are some of the richest in the world and we could do a lot to help Angola out---they just finished a 30 year civil war. With our money and medicines coming in we should be able to get them back on their feet in no time. Then, when they see what nice people we are they will legalize our religion again.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Somewhere in this shitpile of a thread was a link to an article with what seemed to be a balanced explanation of what is really happening in Angora. I've looked several times and can't find it this mess of a standard Syed derail...

Can anyone direct me back to the correct post or link? I wanted to finish reading the article. Thanks.

This one?
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...slam-its-a-little-more-complicated-than-that/

 

[RavenSky]

Somewhere in this shitpile of a thread was a link to an article with what seemed to be a balanced explanation of what is really happening in Angora. I've looked several times and can't find it this mess of a standard Syed derail...

Can anyone direct me back to the correct post or link? I wanted to finish reading the article. Thanks.

This one?
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...slam-its-a-little-more-complicated-than-that/

Yes! Thank you!

 

[Syed]

Actually apostates are singled out for greater punishment than the general non-believer or, at least, are mentioned specifically as being especially heinous. This obviously doesn't mean that those who never accepted Islam are much better off. The Hadith likely base the idea that Allah commands the killing of apostates on the Quran.

He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

— Quran 16:106

what is punishment for apostate? ?

See above quote from the Quran, specifically the highlighted, "he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement."

It seems to be up to the interpretation of the Quran by the various Muslim religious leaders. What would these leaders think a "grievous chastisement" would be? I haven't read the fatwas they issued so don't know if they specify exactly how the apostates are to be killed just that they are to be killed. From the point of these decrees, it seems obvious that the Muslim religious leaders interpret "grievous chastisement" as death at a minimum but maybe even more. Maybe you have read or heard them, you being an apologist for such things, so you should know better than I. You tell me. You have already agreed that such fatwas directing the faithful to kill apostates are issued.

does NOT say to kill apostates

god will deal with them here after

Many quranic scholars and Muslim religious leaders disagree with your interpretation of the Quran. Your apologetics have no bearing on the reality of how Islam is actually practiced. Are you claiming that those who's interpretation of the Quran differ from yours (a hell of a lot of Muslim religious leaders and their followers) are agents of Satan intent on destroying your religion? If so then you should do something about it rather than offering justifications for their beliefs and actions. You are well aware that apostates are killed by those following the fatwas of Muslim religious leaders.

I personally don't give a shit what the quran says and care even less about how you interpret it. What concerns me is the actions of those who claim to be followers of Allah who are abusing and killing innocent people in the name of Allah - those faithful Muslims who are blinded by their religion.

i told you there is no compulsion in religion

Only by your interpretation. As you well know, there are a hell of a lot of Muslim religious leaders and their followers who disagree strongly with you - this is the face of Islam that the world sees. Religions as well as many other aspects of life are judged by people's actions, not by what the people claim.

To repeat the post you are pretending to be responding to:

I personally don't give a shit what the quran says and care even less about how you interpret it. What concerns me is the actions of those who claim to be followers of Allah who are abusing and killing innocent people in the name of Allah - those faithful Muslims who are blinded by their religion.

i always get angry when radical muslim say apostates should be kill

radical atheist also makes me angry, you agree with radical muslims every thing they do

so i must continue to fight radicals atheist, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, american

- - - Updated - - -

Syed,

I think we shouldn't get upset at Angola nor should the rest of the Muslim world. Let's make an example out of Angola that the rest of the world can learn a good lesson about Islam from.

Instead of getting angry and threatening Jihad against Angola why don't Muslims and Muslim countries make it one of the top priorities for our charity? Let's face it. Muslims and Muslim nations are some of the richest in the world and we could do a lot to help Angola out---they just finished a 30 year civil war. With our money and medicines coming in we should be able to get them back on their feet in no time. Then, when they see what nice people we are they will legalize our religion again.

thanks brother

i agree

 

[skepticalbip]

i always get angry when radical muslim say apostates should be kill

Again I would point out that people are judged by their actions not what they claim. You have consistently avoided condemning these radical Muslims in your posts. In fact, you have gone out of your way through your evasiveness to avoid admitting that there are radical Muslims advocating killing and actually killing apostates.

Now the question is have you taken a position in the Muslim community of openly condemning them for doing it or, if not, is it the fear of what they will do to you if you do?

radical atheist also makes me angry, you agree with radical muslims every thing they do

I can understand that atheists could make you angry but, in a free society, civilized people must accept that different people have different ideas. People's beliefs don't kill people - peoples actions kill people.

Now, where the hell do I agree with radical Muslims? That is just a nonsense statement.

so i must continue to fight radicals atheist, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, american

I would agree, depending on what you mean by "fight". Arguing or debating beliefs is what civilized people do. Hatred and/or conflict is what unthinking or uncivilized people do.

 

[Syed]

Again I would point out that people are judged by their actions not what they claim. You have consistently avoided condemning these radical Muslims in your posts. In fact, you have gone out of your way through your evasiveness to avoid admitting that there are radical Muslims advocating killing and actually killing apostates.

Now the question is have you taken a position in the Muslim community of openly condemning them for doing it or, if not, is it the fear of what they will do to you if you do?

radical atheist also makes me angry, you agree with radical muslims every thing they do

I can understand that atheists could make you angry but, in a free society, civilized people must accept that different people have different ideas. People's beliefs don't kill people - peoples actions kill people.

Now, where the hell do I agree with radical Muslims? That is just a nonsense statement.

so i must continue to fight radicals atheist, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, american

I would agree, depending on what you mean by "fight". Arguing or debating beliefs is what civilized people do. Hatred and/or conflict is what unthinking or uncivilized people do.

radical atheist are not civilized they always agree with religious radical

 

[skepticalbip]

Again I would point out that people are judged by their actions not what they claim. You have consistently avoided condemning these radical Muslims in your posts. In fact, you have gone out of your way through your evasiveness to avoid admitting that there are radical Muslims advocating killing and actually killing apostates.

Now the question is have you taken a position in the Muslim community of openly condemning them for doing it or, if not, is it the fear of what they will do to you if you do?

I can understand that atheists could make you angry but, in a free society, civilized people must accept that different people have different ideas. People's beliefs don't kill people - peoples actions kill people.

Now, where the hell do I agree with radical Muslims? That is just a nonsense statement.

so i must continue to fight radicals atheist, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, american

I would agree, depending on what you mean by "fight". Arguing or debating beliefs is what civilized people do. Hatred and/or conflict is what unthinking or uncivilized people do.

radical atheist are not civilized they always agree with religious radical

Pure nonsense....

It must be awful to be a member of a religion where one fears to openly condemn those in their religion who they believe are acting wrongly.

 

[Keith&Co.]

i always get angry when radical muslim say apostates should be kill

Okay, you get angry. Where have you condemned them for their actions?

radical atheist also makes me angry, you agree with radical muslims every thing they do

By 'agree' I think you're abusing the English Language.

We see that many Muslims have an opinion about what Islam should do with/to/about apostates. And we see that they differ from the one you appear to have.

Observing that such opinions exist is not 'agreeing' with them.
Observing that such opinions could find at least some support in the Koran, by the verses they base their opinion on, isn't 'agreeing' with them. You don't appear to 'disagree' with them. You're not offering a better interpretation of the verses. You're just insisting 'I told you' about how the religion really is.

We're not 'agreeing' with them over you, Syed, we just find that your performance seems to be based on denial more than anything else.

 

[Syed]

Again I would point out that people are judged by their actions not what they claim. You have consistently avoided condemning these radical Muslims in your posts. In fact, you have gone out of your way through your evasiveness to avoid admitting that there are radical Muslims advocating killing and actually killing apostates.

Now the question is have you taken a position in the Muslim community of openly condemning them for doing it or, if not, is it the fear of what they will do to you if you do?

I can understand that atheists could make you angry but, in a free society, civilized people must accept that different people have different ideas. People's beliefs don't kill people - peoples actions kill people.

Now, where the hell do I agree with radical Muslims? That is just a nonsense statement.

so i must continue to fight radicals atheist, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, american

I would agree, depending on what you mean by "fight". Arguing or debating beliefs is what civilized people do. Hatred and/or conflict is what unthinking or uncivilized people do.

radical atheist are not civilized they always agree with religious radical

Pure nonsense....

It must be awful to be a member of a religion where one fears to openly condemn those in their religion who they believe are acting wrongly.

how should i condemn?

 

[skepticalbip]

Again I would point out that people are judged by their actions not what they claim. You have consistently avoided condemning these radical Muslims in your posts. In fact, you have gone out of your way through your evasiveness to avoid admitting that there are radical Muslims advocating killing and actually killing apostates.

Now the question is have you taken a position in the Muslim community of openly condemning them for doing it or, if not, is it the fear of what they will do to you if you do?

I can understand that atheists could make you angry but, in a free society, civilized people must accept that different people have different ideas. People's beliefs don't kill people - peoples actions kill people.

Now, where the hell do I agree with radical Muslims? That is just a nonsense statement.

so i must continue to fight radicals atheist, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, american

I would agree, depending on what you mean by "fight". Arguing or debating beliefs is what civilized people do. Hatred and/or conflict is what unthinking or uncivilized people do.

radical atheist are not civilized they always agree with religious radical

Pure nonsense....

It must be awful to be a member of a religion where one fears to openly condemn those in their religion who they believe are acting wrongly.

how should i condemn?

What would you say to your Muslim brothers in condemnation of a radical Jewish group that killed several Muslims in their mosque? You should say the same thing to your Muslim brothers in condemnation of radical Muslims that kill apostates - that is if you really believe that killing apostates is wrong, which any reasoning civilized person should.

 

[Syed]

Okay, you get angry. Where have you condemned them for their actions?

radical atheist also makes me angry, you agree with radical muslims every thing they do

By 'agree' I think you're abusing the English Language.

We see that many Muslims have an opinion about what Islam should do with/to/about apostates. And we see that they differ from the one you appear to have.

Observing that such opinions exist is not 'agreeing' with them.
Observing that such opinions could find at least some support in the Koran, by the verses they base their opinion on, isn't 'agreeing' with them. You don't appear to 'disagree' with them. You're not offering a better interpretation of the verses. You're just insisting 'I told you' about how the religion really is.

We're not 'agreeing' with them over you, Syed, we just find that your performance seems to be based on denial more than anything else.

watch

muslims against apostasy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CdxkF3q44E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkWZc_g21ow

muslims for apostasy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj0P3HP0rS4

 

[Syed]

Again I would point out that people are judged by their actions not what they claim. You have consistently avoided condemning these radical Muslims in your posts. In fact, you have gone out of your way through your evasiveness to avoid admitting that there are radical Muslims advocating killing and actually killing apostates.

Now the question is have you taken a position in the Muslim community of openly condemning them for doing it or, if not, is it the fear of what they will do to you if you do?

I can understand that atheists could make you angry but, in a free society, civilized people must accept that different people have different ideas. People's beliefs don't kill people - peoples actions kill people.

Now, where the hell do I agree with radical Muslims? That is just a nonsense statement.

so i must continue to fight radicals atheist, muslim, jew, christian, hindu, american

I would agree, depending on what you mean by "fight". Arguing or debating beliefs is what civilized people do. Hatred and/or conflict is what unthinking or uncivilized people do.

radical atheist are not civilized they always agree with religious radical

Pure nonsense....

It must be awful to be a member of a religion where one fears to openly condemn those in their religion who they believe are acting wrongly.

how should i condemn?

What would you say to your Muslim brothers in condemnation of a radical Jewish group that killed several Muslims in their mosque? You should say the same thing to your Muslim brothers in condemnation of radical Muslims that kill apostates - that is if you really believe that killing apostates is wrong.

i condemned radical atheist, muslims, jews, christians, hindus , budhists

allah said THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION

this is beautyful commend of allah

1. Say (O Muhammad

2. "I worship not that which you worship,

3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.

4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.

5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.

6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion

 

[Keith&Co.]

watch

Why?