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Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

Copernicus

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I guess I should stop reading and listen to you two experts? Oh, wait, I meant Monday morning quarterbacks.

That and pretending not to be just another Monday morning quarterback here. None of us are experts in this thread. All we can do is base opinions on videos and news stories and speculate. The only thing that we appear to agree on is that the shooter should not have been armed with a military style assault weapon that allowed him to kill and wound a lot of people very quickly.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I guess I should stop reading and listen to you two experts? Oh, wait, I meant Monday morning quarterbacks.

That and pretending not to be just another Monday morning quarterback here. None of us are experts in this thread. All we can do is base opinions on videos and news stories and speculate. The only thing that we appear to agree on is that the shooter should not have been armed with a military style assault weapon that allowed him to kill and wound a lot of people very quickly.
Well that and action against said party was grossly delayed.
 

bigfield

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In hindsight, all of the experts are saying how these men ought to have been trained and ought to have acted. They were apparently neither well-trained nor well-prepared. Maybe Uvalde could not afford the kind of expertise that the major news networks could. Maybe their training wasn't what it was supposed to be. Maybe Chief Arredondo had been promoted above his level of competence.
The US never ceases to surprise me.

I had assumed that Arredondo was the chief of Uvalde police. You know, the police force for the whole town?
But now I am realising that he was specifically the police chief for the school district's police, and he reports to the school district board.

Why the fuck does a small town need, not only its own police department, but a separate police department for schools? Why would anyone think that schools of all things should have their own miniature police department? Am I not understanding something here?

The endless layering of bureaucracy in American law enforcement is a farce, and it is getting people killed because it is an unavoidable fact that most of them will not have enough resources or oversight to actually be capable of protecting people.
 

Copernicus

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In hindsight, all of the experts are saying how these men ought to have been trained and ought to have acted. They were apparently neither well-trained nor well-prepared. Maybe Uvalde could not afford the kind of expertise that the major news networks could. Maybe their training wasn't what it was supposed to be. Maybe Chief Arredondo had been promoted above his level of competence.
The US never ceases to surprise me.

I had assumed that Arredondo was the chief of Uvalde police. You know, the police force for the whole town?
But now I am realising that he was specifically the police chief for the school district's police, and he reports to the school district board.

Why the fuck does a small town need, not only its own police department, but a separate police department for schools? Why would anyone think that schools of all things should have their own miniature police department? Am I not understanding something here?

The endless layering of bureaucracy in American law enforcement is a farce, and it is getting people killed because it is an unavoidable fact that most of them will not have enough resources or oversight to actually be capable of protecting people.

Uvalde is the county seat. They certainly need a small police force, but the problem is that American gun culture is stronger in Texas than just about any other state. Anyone who wants a gun can get one, and that poses a huge threat to even little towns like Uvalde. With that kind of mindset, it is no surprise that Uvalde boasted its own elite squad of first responders with lots of weapons and equipment. They were very afraid that this kind of thing would happen, but they still weren't prepared for it when it did.
 

Gospel

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All we can do is base opinions on videos and news stories and speculate.
We also have the full report to go on.
The only thing that we appear to agree on is that the shooter should not have been armed with a military style assault weapon that allowed him to kill and wound a lot of people very quickly.
Yes, yes we do both agree on that fa sho.
 

southernhybrid

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nytimes.com/2022/07/17/us/uvalde-shooting-report.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DKDm8diPkORJWe8kPBaO94Z9w0wzWdS5pbPacoXuA0zvNaOwYlbTiUlaa-ucZPJTQp-8X0V3kq3pnJUPczrG-xZT

It appears as if the report is blaming almost all of the agencies that responded so poorly. to the school shooting. The article is gifted so read the entire thing if interested.


The first comprehensive assessment of the law enforcement response to the deadly school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, found that blame for the failure to swiftly confront the gunman rested not only with the school police chief, but also with the scores of state and federal officers who gathered at the deadly scene but did not act.
The 77-page report, released Sunday by a special Texas House committee, represented a broad indictment of police inaction at Robb Elementary School, citing “systemic failures” that left the school inadequately secured and the police officers who responded mired in confusion and bad information.
Nearly 400 officers responded to the school that day. Yet the decision to finally confront the gunman was made by a small group of officers, including specially trained Border Patrol agents and a deputy sheriff from a neighboring county, the report found, concluding that others at the scene could have taken charge and done so far earlier.
 

Gospel

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It appears as if the report is blaming almost all of the agencies that responded so poorly. to the school shooting.

Blaming everyone is a great way of dodging accountability.

The report is airing out all the deficiencies leading to the deaths. This includes the school leadership (regarding securing the building) & school officer as well as all the responding police agencies. I don't believe anything brought to light by the report can successfully be disputed.

What's done about the things revealed in the report is another story.
 

Gospel

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Speaking of airing out.
That and pretending not to be just another Monday morning quarterback here.

Please define Monday morning quarterback and how that applies to my opinions on this tragedy.

K thx bye.
 

TomC

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Please define Monday morning quarterback and how that applies to my opinions on this tragedy.

One that advocates for a kinder, gentler, police force. A police force that sticks to process. That relies on negotiations and brings in trained social workers.

A police force that doesn't execute alleged perpetrators without due process.

Until that police force fails to protect the public, as becomes obvious on Monday morning.
Tom
 

Copernicus

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Speaking of airing out.
That and pretending not to be just another Monday morning quarterback here.

Please define Monday morning quarterback and how that applies to my opinions on this tragedy.

K thx bye.

Typical definitions would be "one who second-guesses" or "a person who passes judgment on and criticizes something after the event."

We've all done that here regarding this incident, not just you. It's a lot easier to pass judgment in hindsight and without having had the experience of being there. Why would you consider yourself an exception?
 

Gospel

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Speaking of airing out.
That and pretending not to be just another Monday morning quarterback here.

Please define Monday morning quarterback and how that applies to my opinions on this tragedy.

K thx bye.

Typical definitions would be "one who second-guesses" or "a person who passes judgment on and criticizes something after the event."

We've all done that here regarding this incident, not just you. It's a lot easier to pass judgment in hindsight and without having had the experience of being there.

Yeah, and the Earth rotated on its axis moments before I posted this. Are you going to use that phrase every time someone mentions something that happened in the past? Or did you just choose my posts for a particular reason?

Edit: I meant condemns not mentions.
 

Copernicus

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Speaking of airing out.
That and pretending not to be just another Monday morning quarterback here.

Please define Monday morning quarterback and how that applies to my opinions on this tragedy.

K thx bye.

Typical definitions would be "one who second-guesses" or "a person who passes judgment on and criticizes something after the event."

We've all done that here regarding this incident, not just you. It's a lot easier to pass judgment in hindsight and without having had the experience of being there.

Yeah, and the Earth rotated on its axis moments before I posted this. Are you going to use that phrase every time someone mentions something that happened in the past? Or did you just choose my posts for a particular reason?

Edit: I meant condemns not mentions.

Gospel, you were the one who called me a "Monday morning quarterback" and then demanded that I define the expression for you and explain how it applied to you. It seems obvious (to me, anyway) that you are just as judgmental as any of us when it comes to the actions of those officers, so I don't really understand why you seem to think that the term applies to others, but not yourself.
 

Gospel

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We've all done that here regarding this incident, not just you.

Well, I guess you're right. I did pass judgment on and criticize something after the event and I was never a police officer that had to respond to a school shooting. Sorry, thought you were making the case that my opinions were wrong.
 

TomC

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We've all done that here regarding this incident, not just you.

Well, I guess you're right. I did pass judgment on and criticize something after the event and I was never a police officer that had to respond to a school shooting. Sorry, thought you were making the case that my opinions were wrong.
It is definitely not just you.
It's a huge problem with the modern media landscape.

People passing judgement with small and heavily agenda driven "information" available. From a family court drama in Louisiana, to a MAGA hat wearing teenager in D.C., to an "associate visiting professor at a college I've never heard of before", to the Uvalde police, it happens all the time.
Tom
 

Jimmy Higgins

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nytimes.com/2022/07/17/us/uvalde-shooting-report.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DKDm8diPkORJWe8kPBaO94Z9w0wzWdS5pbPacoXuA0zvNaOwYlbTiUlaa-ucZPJTQp-8X0V3kq3pnJUPczrG-xZT

It appears as if the report is blaming almost all of the agencies that responded so poorly. to the school shooting. The article is gifted so read the entire thing if interested.


The first comprehensive assessment of the law enforcement response to the deadly school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, found that blame for the failure to swiftly confront the gunman rested not only with the school police chief, but also with the scores of state and federal officers who gathered at the deadly scene but did not act.
The 77-page report, released Sunday by a special Texas House committee, represented a broad indictment of police inaction at Robb Elementary School, citing “systemic failures” that left the school inadequately secured and the police officers who responded mired in confusion and bad information.
Nearly 400 officers responded to the school that day. Yet the decision to finally confront the gunman was made by a small group of officers, including specially trained Border Patrol agents and a deputy sheriff from a neighboring county, the report found, concluding that others at the scene could have taken charge and done so far earlier.
One could ask why in a state that worships guns more than Jesus, were incapable of managing a response to an armed man.
 

Copernicus

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One could ask why in a state that worships guns more than Jesus, were incapable of managing a response to an armed man.

I suppose that part of it was the "too many cooks" syndrome, with what is reported to have been over 400 law enforcement officers ultimately showing up from across the area. The recent report criticizes everyone, but mainly the lack of leadership. There was apparently no clear onsite incident commander, although Chief Arredondo should have taken that role. He apparently felt that it should have been someone else. He considered himself just another police officer responding to the shooting. However, he is reportedly the one who made the fatal decision to declare it a "barricaded shooter" situation rather than an "active shooter". And he wrote the policy that they were operating under.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Speaking of airing out.
That and pretending not to be just another Monday morning quarterback here.

Please define Monday morning quarterback and how that applies to my opinions on this tragedy.

K thx bye.

Typical definitions would be "one who second-guesses" or "a person who passes judgment on and criticizes something after the event."

We've all done that here regarding this incident, not just you. It's a lot easier to pass judgment in hindsight and without having had the experience of being there. Why would you consider yourself an exception?
The funny thing about this is that my initial reaction was it was overzealous to blame the cops for not barging into the school and taking out the shooter. You simply don't know for certain what is happening.

That was before I knew they were already in the school with shields and weapons to manage this situation... likely aware there was only a single shooter.

And now there are investigations coming out... and what pisses me off is that there is no end to the amount of blame to those under those doing the blaming are willing to toss out. The whole damn system failed, from top to bottom... and right now, the top is shitting on the bottom and not taking their own lumps (I suppose that pun could be intended, but awkward).

What happened? No one could organize the situation, no one seemed to want to organize the situation, and when the awkward pause kept going on and on, no one even seemed to question the pause. And that type of failure means the brass up top fucked up too.
 

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One could ask why in a state that worships guns more than Jesus, were incapable of managing a response to an armed man.

I suppose that part of it was the "too many cooks" syndrome

Maybe part of it is that the State (TX) worships guns. The guy had a gun, ergo he must be worshiped. Part of the Firearms Religious dogma is to honor the omnipotence of the well-armed.
 

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steve_bank

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over the last few days anoter string of shootings and murders. Technically not a mass shooting when it does not happen all at once.
 

Copernicus

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over the last few days anoter string of shootings and murders. Technically not a mass shooting when it does not happen all at once.

I like this one:

Woman Shot After Opening Fire Inside Dallas Love Field Airport


It was a nice example of Texas style resolution of a personal problem. Apparently, a woman believed her husband was cheating on her. So she got her gun and went to the airport. Once there, she changed her clothes in the restroom for some reason, exited, and announced her problem--that her husband was cheating on her and she was therefore "Gonna blow this sucker up". She fired a round at the ceiling, and it was reported that most of the shots were apparently fired at the ceiling. Naturally, everyone began running or dodged for cover. But think about how considerate this woman was.

1) She didn't actually shoot anyone.
2) She gave everyone a fair chance to find cover.
3) She wasn't wearing body armor.
4) She apparently hadn't brought an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine designed to commit mass murder.
5) The police and/or airport security didn't run away or hunker down behind shields. They just shot her.

The woman was taken away to the hospital, and I don't know her condition now. However, it was good that no one else was shot. The only thing is that this was Texas. Why wasn't some good guy civilian with a gun also shooting at her? Are people not allowed to carry their guns for personal protection openly in Texas airports? If not, this sounds like a loophole in gun rights laws that the Texas legislature needs to fix.
 

steve_bank

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Yesterday a woman was found shot dead in her car in the area. Daily reporting.

Yesterday a guy started shooting atple and ran into somebody's house when chased by police. House caught fire and burned down.

It does not register anymore. I watch what's going on around when I am out on the streets and public transit. I carry pepper spray and practice breaking somebody's knee with my cane or a kick. I have had several confrontations which diffused.
 

Loren Pechtel

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over the last few days anoter string of shootings and murders. Technically not a mass shooting when it does not happen all at once.

I like this one:

Woman Shot After Opening Fire Inside Dallas Love Field Airport


It was a nice example of Texas style resolution of a personal problem. Apparently, a woman believed her husband was cheating on her. So she got her gun and went to the airport. Once there, she changed her clothes in the restroom for some reason, exited, and announced her problem--that her husband was cheating on her and she was therefore "Gonna blow this sucker up". She fired a round at the ceiling, and it was reported that most of the shots were apparently fired at the ceiling. Naturally, everyone began running or dodged for cover. But think about how considerate this woman was.

1) She didn't actually shoot anyone.
2) She gave everyone a fair chance to find cover.
3) She wasn't wearing body armor.
4) She apparently hadn't brought an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine designed to commit mass murder.
5) The police and/or airport security didn't run away or hunker down behind shields. They just shot her.

The woman was taken away to the hospital, and I don't know her condition now. However, it was good that no one else was shot. The only thing is that this was Texas. Why wasn't some good guy civilian with a gun also shooting at her? Are people not allowed to carry their guns for personal protection openly in Texas airports? If not, this sounds like a loophole in gun rights laws that the Texas legislature needs to fix.

I don't think this is a mass shooting, but a suicide by cop.
 

Toni

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over the last few days anoter string of shootings and murders. Technically not a mass shooting when it does not happen all at once.

I like this one:

Woman Shot After Opening Fire Inside Dallas Love Field Airport


It was a nice example of Texas style resolution of a personal problem. Apparently, a woman believed her husband was cheating on her. So she got her gun and went to the airport. Once there, she changed her clothes in the restroom for some reason, exited, and announced her problem--that her husband was cheating on her and she was therefore "Gonna blow this sucker up". She fired a round at the ceiling, and it was reported that most of the shots were apparently fired at the ceiling. Naturally, everyone began running or dodged for cover. But think about how considerate this woman was.

1) She didn't actually shoot anyone.
2) She gave everyone a fair chance to find cover.
3) She wasn't wearing body armor.
4) She apparently hadn't brought an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine designed to commit mass murder.
5) The police and/or airport security didn't run away or hunker down behind shields. They just shot her.

The woman was taken away to the hospital, and I don't know her condition now. However, it was good that no one else was shot. The only thing is that this was Texas. Why wasn't some good guy civilian with a gun also shooting at her? Are people not allowed to carry their guns for personal protection openly in Texas airports? If not, this sounds like a loophole in gun rights laws that the Texas legislature needs to fix.

I don't think this is a mass shooting, but a suicide by cop.
I think it was just someone who was driven to the brink and wanted to make a huge public statement but reallly did not have it in her to shoot at anyone. Plus, it doesn’t seem like her husband was in the crowd. Such a tragedy. Now the bastard doesn’t have to go through a divorce and worry about division of assets. Police did him a huge favor.
 

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Do you also have choice words for women who allegedly cheat, or only for men? Or are you, as I suspect, on the side of cheating wives because they are female?

doesn’t have to go through a divorce and worry about division of assets. Police did him a huge favor.
She is not dead. She can still get half his assets in a divorce. If there is even a cheating husband at all. She is coocoo for cocoa puffs.
 

Derec

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4) She apparently hadn't brought an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine designed to commit mass murder.
A handgun is a lot easier to conceal in your bra and almost as deadly as an AR15.

Why are Dems so monomaniacally obsessed with that weapon? Gavin Newsom just signed some cockamamie law against so-called assault weapons and congressional Dems are seeking to revive the almost useless assault weapons ban.
Meanwhile, vast majority of gun homicides are committed using good old non-assaulty handguns.
 

Toni

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Do you also have choice words for women who allegedly cheat, or only for men? Or are you, as I suspect, on the side of cheating wives because they are female?

doesn’t have to go through a divorce and worry about division of assets. Police did him a huge favor.
She is not dead. She can still get half his assets in a divorce. If there is even a cheating husband at all. She is coocoo for cocoa puffs.
Derec, I really should not have written that as flippantly as I had. It seems obvious that she was extremely angry and very overwrought. It seems pretty clear that she did not actually intend to shoot anyone. Only because she obviously didn't actually intend to shoot anyone (because she didn't shoot anyone or aim at anyone) did I write so flippantly.

To me, the pronouns don't matter; the sex doesn't matter. I'm glad no one was killed. I'm happy if she survives. No, I don't think anyone should shoot their spouse, even if their spouse is a lying cheating bastard who gave them the clap and emptied their bank accounts and burned all of their photo albums.

I understand why the police shot her; they probably had no other option that was safe for the public who played no part in her drama with her spouse---if indeed her spouse had cheated on her. She may just be delusional.

Edited: Yeah, she's seriously mentally ill. I'm glad no one was hurt, except her and hope that she gets the help she so obviously needs. She's certainly a danger to others and to herself.

And YES I definitely would argue the same if she were he.
 

Derec

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Derec, I really should not have written that as flippantly as I had. It seems obvious that she was extremely angry and very overwrought.
To put it mildly.
It seems pretty clear that she did not actually intend to shoot anyone. Only because she obviously didn't actually intend to shoot anyone (because she didn't shoot anyone or aim at anyone) did I write so flippantly.
From what I have read, she did point the gun at the officer right before she got shot.

To me, the pronouns don't matter; the sex doesn't matter. I'm glad no one was killed. I'm happy if she survives. No, I don't think anyone should shoot their spouse,
Well that's good. Although I do not think you would be flippantly calling some guys wife names if he chose to shoot up an airport ostensibly because of her cheating.

even if their spouse is a lying cheating bastard who gave them the clap and emptied their bank accounts and burned all of their photo albums.
That's an awfully specific scenario ...
 

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Derec, I really should not have written that as flippantly as I had. It seems obvious that she was extremely angry and very overwrought.
To put it mildly.
It seems pretty clear that she did not actually intend to shoot anyone. Only because she obviously didn't actually intend to shoot anyone (because she didn't shoot anyone or aim at anyone) did I write so flippantly.
From what I have read, she did point the gun at the officer right before she got shot.

To me, the pronouns don't matter; the sex doesn't matter. I'm glad no one was killed. I'm happy if she survives. No, I don't think anyone should shoot their spouse,
Well that's good. Although I do not think you would be flippantly calling some guys wife names if he chose to shoot up an airport ostensibly because of her cheating.

even if their spouse is a lying cheating bastard who gave them the clap and emptied their bank accounts and burned all of their photo albums.
That's an awfully specific scenario ...
I was in the zone, I guess. Blame my parents for playing all of that country music when I was a kid.
 
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