Berkeley Protests, the old ultra-violence

[whichphilosophy]

Violence in the face of tyranny is no vice.

The problem is that both extremes believe that.

In that they are alike. They interact with each other.

 

[marc]

And there are very good reasons to believe that people who came as Antifa did in fact come to commit violence (their own expressed intent, their history, etc),

Since I've only heard of 'Antifa' for the first time a day or two ago, I have no idea what kind of 'history' they have. Is there any factual article about the history of the term and the people it is applied to?

 

[laughing dog]

Never mind

 

[repoman]

watching the whole video of the melee. It looks like "Based Stick Man" with the Texas flag shirt is assaulting somebody again (47 seconds in):



This video of him before has the best and worst possible soundtrack ever:

 

[whichphilosophy]

And there are very good reasons to believe that people who came as Antifa did in fact come to commit violence (their own expressed intent, their history, etc),

Since I've only heard of 'Antifa' for the first time a day or two ago, I have no idea what kind of 'history' they have. Is there any factual article about the history of the term and the people it is applied to?

Antifa has been around in different forms since the 1920's.

 

[Underseer]

Willingness to use violence against dissenters or out-groups is one of the hallmark features of Right Wing Authoritarianism. There also seemed to be a group of black-clad "anarchists" (read paid agents provocateurs) that instigated the clash, probably to discredit the protestors.

Extremists of the left and right use violence against those they don't like. The Ultra Left focus on suppressing free speech as well as attacking in the same way as the ultra right do.

Here idiots of the left and right had nothing better to do than engage in punch ups.

Oh yes, both sides are exactly as bad.

For example, in world war two, both the Allies and the Nazis used violence, therefore the Allies were just as bad as the Nazis.

Same thing here.

Both the Nazis and the people protesting the Nazis are exactly as bad!

Thank goodness we have people like you to defend the Nazis!

 

[Trausti]

Extremists of the left and right use violence against those they don't like. The Ultra Left focus on suppressing free speech as well as attacking in the same way as the ultra right do.

Here idiots of the left and right had nothing better to do than engage in punch ups.

Oh yes, both sides are exactly as bad.

For example, in world war two, both the Allies and the Nazis used violence, therefore the Allies were just as bad as the Nazis.

Same thing here.

Both the Nazis and the people protesting the Nazis are exactly as bad!

Thank goodness we have people like you to defend the Nazis!

You make a good point. The Communists were worse than the Nazis; having killed many more millions of people (even years before the war began).

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

She did not merely have her face hidden.

KKK members do not merely have their faces hidden.

She was there with a group, all dressed in black and most wearing partial masks, ...

There are times when members often get together all dressed in white and most wearing partial masks.

...who are known for starting violent attacks on innocent people in the areas, and who were actively trying to assault people at the time.

These KKK members are known for not only starting violent attacks on innocent people, but terrorizing them and murdering them.

Therefore, if a group of black people encounters KKK who are mostly hidden by masks or partial masks, it is okay for the black people to preemptively attack them.

There is very little difference between this and attacking Nazis.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Oh yes, both sides are exactly as bad.

For example, in world war two, both the Allies and the Nazis used violence, therefore the Allies were just as bad as the Nazis.

Same thing here.

Both the Nazis and the people protesting the Nazis are exactly as bad!

Thank goodness we have people like you to defend the Nazis!

You make a good point. The Communists were worse than the Nazis; having killed many more millions of people (even years before the war began).

Antifa is perfect flip side for the Ultra-right. However they object to just about anything right wing of Marx

 

[J842P]

I have been thinking about this very subject. About how the post-modernism of the left paved the way for Trumpism and its alternative facts. Especially the left's relativism, that truth is not an absolute, that it changes depending on who is viewing it. Is this any different than the views of Trump that facts are anything that supports his viewpoint and that further inflates his considerable ego and that anything that doesn't are fake facts?

I'm pretty sure the pioneers of post-modern thought would have taken issue with "Truth is not absolute" being used as justification by sycophants to espouse demonstrably false narratives. I mean saying that the truth isn't absolute isn't the same thing as saying "Falsities are subjective."

The claim is much stronger than "tuth isn't absolute". Seriously, read the crap that is written. The view is that *there is no truth*. A post-modernist take on the Trump phenomenon is that Trump is just *another* person using language to effect power and gain dominance over other groups. There *is no truth*, only competing groups. There is "only the text", so to speak.

 

[J842P]

I disagree. Antifa is an extreme manifestation of a general ideological trend that has its roots in post-modernist thought which has come to dominate the humanities and, to a lesser extent, social science departments.

Post-modernism has its roots in the works of men like Heiddegar (who ironically was a Nazi), Derrida, and Foucault (who ironically died flirting with Stoicism). You can think of post-modernism as essentially the position that truth doesn't exist, reason doesn't exist, and claims to knowledge are merely discourses between inherently opposing and adversarial power structures. A lot of it is self defeating, but because they have dispensed with the logos they don't seem to mind, and have essentially been producing masturbatory drivel for the past half-century, especially since most of the people who engage in it now do not have the raw intellectual quality of some of the founders. And that's no surprise, because the only sorts people going into this stuff anymore are followers and sheep - the sort who never question what they are taught by their professors, who themselves were a bunch of followers from a previous generation. In any event, this in combination with the various subgenres of cultural studies, have essentially established a cult that students are indoctrinated into.

....

I have been thinking about this very subject. About how the post-modernism of the left paved the way for Trumpism and its alternative facts. Especially the left's relativism, that truth is not an absolute, that it changes depending on who is viewing it. Is this any different than the views of Trump that facts are anything that supports his viewpoint and that further inflates his considerable ego and that anything that doesn't are fake facts?

I think that the problem with post-modernism isn't so much that it paved the way for Trump. Trump is wholly unremarkable in the sense that he is merely another demagogic populist selling a line of bullshit who is in it for their ego and their pocketbook. This is not something new. The problem is that the only response post-modernism gives to people like Trump "yell louder, and punch them in the face. There is no truth, only war between ideas." The problem with that, though, is that if there is a war, it won't be the liberal side that wins.

- - - Updated - - -

KKK members do not merely have their faces hidden.

She was there with a group, all dressed in black and most wearing partial masks, ...

There are times when members often get together all dressed in white and most wearing partial masks.

...who are known for starting violent attacks on innocent people in the areas, and who were actively trying to assault people at the time.

These KKK members are known for not only starting violent attacks on innocent people, but terrorizing them and murdering them.

Therefore, if a group of black people encounters KKK who are mostly hidden by masks or partial masks, it is okay for the black people to preemptively attack them.

There is very little difference between this and attacking Nazis.

I honestly do not understand what you are trying to argue here? Antifa did not get attacked, they did the attacking.

 

[Trausti]

Berkeley Campus On Lockdown After Loose Pages From ‘Wall Street Journal’ Found On Park Bench

At press time, a black-clad group of 50 students were throwing bottles at the bench while chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist U.S.A!”

I could totally believe that.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Trausti]

 

[repoman]

This is Hitler's birthday, be nice to his memory on this day at least!

 

[Trausti]

This is Hitler's birthday, be nice to his memory on this day at least!

 

[repoman]

Should be "how much did the challah cost?"