Black on black, White on White, and Power of Misdirection.

[AthenaAwakened]

I am not insulting you. If I were, you would be crying now.

All these threads are centered NOT on killing armed robbers, but unarmed black men/boys. And since you have gone to great lengths to prove that black males should be feared, that the police are acting reasonably, so yeah, I need clarification.

Athena, you are dealing out your own copious amount of bullshit based on your emotional connection to the issue and use of common fallacies.

What bullshit? Are you saying I should not be emotional? Killing unarmed men and boys is not an emotional thing for you?

You assume that every single black person experiences unfair profiling even when they are doing nothing suspicious and there is no belief/hearsay-component to how they feel about police.

Where have I said that? Asking a question is not the same as making a statement. Evading a question is not the same as answering it

The belief is all on the part of police who profile for no reason.

Where have I said they have no reason?

The foundation of your counterarguments seems to be an unstoppable slippery slope to "shooting unarmed black men is okay"

It is a slippery slope. But I am not the one on it

in the face of whatever evidence is brought to bare on the issue.

The evidence is incomplete at best and intentionally biased at worst.

In your mind and limited experience,

You do realize I studied social stratification at university and among things, am a Human Resources consultant specializing in diversity program design and conflict resolution. I have testified in court and before government committee. Not to mention i have been in the struggle fighting for civil rights for every citizen since I was in my first march at the age of 4 holding my grandmother's hand.

Mike Brown must have been innocent of any behavior that resulted in his own death and the officer must be lying to cover for his demonic actions.

I do not recall mentioning Mike Brown in this thread. And I certainly did not bring up demons. That would be the Wilson.

Despite the fact you know neither Mike Brown nor Darren Wilson. This issue isn't that black-and-white and it's a disgrac e to the integrity of the debate to resort to these tactics. In my experience, this debate is turning many a liberal-leaning independent to more conservative for what appears to be unfair application of justice with selective focus.

If the discomfort of an internet debate make a person abandon his/her principles, that person doesn't have principles, but opinions.

And what's up with the the arrogance of "you would be crying now?" That sounds like something a school-yard bully would say.

That wasn't arrogance. Hyperbole, perhaps.

It is not about denying individual experiences of racism. It is more about being able to find an ethnic individual that has not experienced these types of incidents. You'll be hard pressed to do so. To my mind, that speaks louder than the usual dialogue on this subject.

Why do you think we mostly only hear about bad news dude? People are more likely to complain publicly than note that something didn't happen. This may only speak louder because that's all you're hearing.

 

[EPresence2]

You assume that every single black person experiences unfair profiling even when they are doing nothing suspicious and there is no belief/hearsay-component to how they feel about police.

Where have I said that? Asking a question is not the same as making a statement. Evading a question is not the same as answering it.

I thought you'd say that and here is where you said it (and I responded to on page 6 of this thread):

White cops fear black people because of what they believe.

This is not true for those having had actual experiences with some black people that colors their subconscious (or conscious) fears.

Black people fear the police because of the way we have to live.

Are you claiming there is no aspect of belief based on misinformation conveyed to others and presented as fact? Are you claiming there are not black people that fear the police because of what they believe?

But then again white folks need to shut up and listen to such grievances? Grievances that pretend to know every cop's true intentions/actions when an unarmed man who happens to be black gets shot. There are times when both perspectives need to shut up and listen.

The evidence is incomplete at best and intentionally biased at worst.

It can be biased both ways Athena. The statements from you I referenced above reveals your thoroughly one-sided approach.

In your mind and limited experience,

You do realize I studied social stratification at university and among things, am a Human Resources consultant specializing in diversity program design and conflict resolution. I have testified in court and before government committee. Not to mention i have been in the struggle fighting for civil rights for every citizen since I was in my first march at the age of 4 holding my grandmother's hand.

You don't know my experiences either Athena. And you still have a limited experience that is so personal that it suggests recusing yourself from a rational debate. You DO NOT speak for all perspectives on this issue - no one does! Therein resides the importance of data and statistics along with recognition of flaws in that data.

Mike Brown must have been innocent of any behavior that resulted in his own death and the officer must be lying to cover for his demonic actions.

I do not recall mentioning Mike Brown in this thread. And I certainly did not bring up demons. That would be Wilson.

I assume you are including him in the list of innocent unarmed black men. Are you not?

Despite the fact you know neither Mike Brown nor Darren Wilson. This issue isn't that black-and-white and it's a disgrace to the integrity of the debate to resort to these tactics. In my experience, this debate is turning many a liberal-leaning independent to more conservative for what appears to be unfair application of justice with selective focus.

If the discomfort of an internet debate make a person abandon his/her principles, that person doesn't have principles, but opinions.

Discomfort? You don't have to own the fallacy of your statements quoted earlier - they are free for any forum user to see. I'm not the one making such statements. Where are your principles and lack of opinions in this?

And what's up with the the arrogance of "you would be crying now?" That sounds like something a school-yard bully would say.

That wasn't arrogance. Hyperbole, perhaps.

Unless you know the guy personally and know what would make him cry - it is arrogance and bullying. Simply hyperbole my ass.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Where have I said that? Asking a question is not the same as making a statement. Evading a question is not the same as answering it.

I thought you'd say that and here is where you said it (and I responded to on page 6 of this thread):

White cops fear black people because of what they believe.

This is not true for those having had actual experiences with some black people that colors their subconscious (or conscious) fears.

Black people fear the police because of the way we have to live.

Are you claiming there is no aspect of belief based on misinformation conveyed to others and presented as fact? Are you claiming there are not black people that fear the police because of what they believe?

But then again white folks need to shut up and listen to such grievances? Grievances that pretend to know every cop's true intentions/actions when an unarmed man who happens to be black gets shot. There are times when both perspectives need to shut up and listen.

The evidence is incomplete at best and intentionally biased at worst.

It can be biased both ways Athena. The statements from you I referenced above reveals your thoroughly one-sided approach.

In your mind and limited experience,

You do realize I studied social stratification at university and among things, am a Human Resources consultant specializing in diversity program design and conflict resolution. I have testified in court and before government committee. Not to mention i have been in the struggle fighting for civil rights for every citizen since I was in my first march at the age of 4 holding my grandmother's hand.

You don't know my experiences either Athena. And you still have a limited experience that is so personal that it suggests recusing yourself from a rational debate. You DO NOT speak for all perspectives on this issue - no one does! Therein resides the importance of data and statistics along with recognition of flaws in that data.

Mike Brown must have been innocent of any behavior that resulted in his own death and the officer must be lying to cover for his demonic actions.

I do not recall mentioning Mike Brown in this thread. And I certainly did not bring up demons. That would be Wilson.

I assume you are including him in the list of innocent unarmed black men. Are you not?

Despite the fact you know neither Mike Brown nor Darren Wilson. This issue isn't that black-and-white and it's a disgrace to the integrity of the debate to resort to these tactics. In my experience, this debate is turning many a liberal-leaning independent to more conservative for what appears to be unfair application of justice with selective focus.

If the discomfort of an internet debate make a person abandon his/her principles, that person doesn't have principles, but opinions.

Discomfort? You don't have to own the fallacy of your statements quoted earlier - they are free for any forum user to see. I'm not the one making such statements. Where are your principles and lack of opinions in this?

And what's up with the the arrogance of "you would be crying now?" That sounds like something a school-yard bully would say.

That wasn't arrogance. Hyperbole, perhaps.

Unless you know the guy personally and know what would make him cry - it is arrogance and bullying. Simply hyperbole my ass.

I have been debating, and even sometimes agreeing, with Axulus for years.

You on the other hand are late to party. I don't know you, but I do know when someone hates me or when someone hates facing what's inside himself.

I'm gonna let you cool down and think. Just think.

 

[EPresence2]

I have been debating, and even sometimes agreeing, with Axulus for years.

You on the other hand are late to party. I don't know you, but I do know when someone hates me or when someone hates facing what's inside himself.

I'm gonna let you cool down and think. Just think.

All this is irrelevant and evasive. Of course, my comments are not attacking you as a person - that would be an ad hom. I'm just exposing another spot of misdirection in a debate that requires the utmost in integrity to bring more perspectives on board. How do you expect others to own any misdirection on their part (intentional or not) if you can't admit it yourself? I have accepted criticism on this board before and taken it to heart - some from Nice Squirrel a few years back. Believe it or not, I am actually a veteran of this forum ("EPresence") who has been on hiatus until just recently - new family and kids suck up nearly all my time now. There is so little time to contemplate how the Universe began (for example) - LOL I had respected the input from prominent members of this forum back then and expected to see a more reasoned debate surrounding this issue... which has blown up my Facebook newsfeed and Unitarian-Universalist church recently. There are both civil rights activists and police that attend the services. And I know and respect both groups personally...

 

[One]

Why do you think we mostly only hear about bad news dude? People are more likely to complain publicly than note that something didn't happen. This may only speak louder because that's all you're hearing.

Discussions like this are always narrow and I tend to speak within the perimeters of the respective opening posts. The totality of my views on race relations have not been fully detailed in any of these conversations over the years.

My family is a mixed blend of African, Irish, French, Sioux, Cherokee, Norwegian, Seminole, Cuban and Puerto Rican. My friends and colleagues also include a diverse blend of people from around the world, many of which I met while conducting comparative religion research. Therefore, these dialogues have played out right in my living room with representatives from all vantage points for a very long time. That said, I consider myself a fair-minded person.

I also highlighted a bit of your comment. The truth is that people are more likely to complain off record, where their sentiments can be heard without public ramifications. Journalism 101.

 

[EPresence2]

Why do you think we mostly only hear about bad news dude? People are more likely to complain publicly than note that something didn't happen. This may only speak louder because that's all you're hearing.

Discussions like this are always narrow and I tend to speak within the perimeters of the respective opening posts. The totality of my views on race relations have not been fully detailed in any of these conversations over the years.

My family is a mixed blend of African, Irish, French, Sioux, Cherokee, Norwegian, Seminole, Cuban and Puerto Rican. My friends and colleagues also include a diverse blend of people from around the world, many of which I met while conducting comparative religion research. Therefore, these dialogues have played out right in my living room with representatives from all vantage points for a very long time. That said, I consider myself a fair-minded person.

I also highlighted a bit of your comment. The truth is that people are more likely to complain off record, where their sentiments can be heard without public ramifications. Journalism 101.

Nice blend of human family and perspective there 0. I should modify my statement: "People are more likely to complain publicly that note publicly that something didn't happen." And they are more likely to complain privately than publicly.