Black people afraid to call the police because of fear of police brutality?

[Derec]

She created the situation she was afraid of.

No. You said it was a self-fulfilling prophecy which means the fear was there prior to the stop. And she certainly did not create the situation by herself. So that does not explain why she was afraid of that police officer.

That would be the fruits of black radicalism, the latest instance of which is #BLM. They have been spreading the nonsense about there being an open season on black people.

 

[Axulus]

Just from this I see:

1) You don't contest the traffic offense at the scene. That's for the courtroom.

2) You don't get out of your car at a traffic stop unless told to.

3) She is not describing anything that warrants fear.

And reading the rest of the article:

4) She seems totally clueless.

Traffic stop reality: You sign the ticket or you go to jail. If you try to resist this you'll get a resisting arrest charge on top of it.

Or you:

1) drive around with a large pillow and pretend you are pregnant

or

2) a nurse's uniform

Both alternatives work better for women than men.

- - - Updated - - -

Also their "we are at war" mentality. Displays of power like this are threatening, not reassuring.

Look at that vehicle more carefully.

See any weapons on it?

See the writing on it? "Rescue vehicle".

Stuff like that exists to pull people out of dangerous situations, not to threaten anyone.

Dangerous situations like what, Waco... after the fire had started?!

BearCats are typically referred to by law enforcement agencies as being "armored rescue vehicles"[15] with their primary use being to transport tactical (SWAT/Special Reaction Teams) officers to and from hostile situations and to assist with the recovery and protection of civilians in harm's way during terrorist threats, hostage incidents, or encounters with large gatherings of aggressors.[16][17] The Bearcat is designed to provide protection from a variety of small arms, explosives and IED threats.[16] Like its larger cousin the B.E.A.R, the Bearcat is able to be fitted with the "MARS" Mobile Adjustable Ramp System which allows tactical officers to gain entry to elevated platforms such as second story windows or aircraft.[18][19]
Lenco BearCats have been credited with saving the lives of officers in armed confrontations on numerous occasions. In 2010 in Athens, Texas an armed offender fired more than 35 rounds from a semi-automatic AK-74 rifle at tactical police. Not one round penetrated the Bearcat.[20] In June 2012 a BearCat, belonging to the Central Bucks Emergency Response Team, took 28 rounds from a "high powered rifle" during a siege with no rounds penetrating the vehicle.[21] In November 2015, a BearCat was used by police to rescue civilians during the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting.[22] The Oklahoma County Sheriff's Office Bearcat was shot between four and seven times with a rifle during an incident on December 29, 2015. Sheriff Whetsel was quoted as saying the Bearcat saved the Deputies' lives.[23] On June 12, 2016, a Bearcat was used to breach Pulse nightclub after a gunman shot and killed 49 clubgoers and injured 53 others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenco_BearCat

 

[Treedbear]

I see butterflies and unicorns.

I see authoritarians getting boners.

They don't actually intend to use it. It's just a recruiting tool.

 

[Axulus]

2. YouTube videos and cellphone footage prove that today’s cops are out of control.

Most criminologists believe that today’s police departments are more professional than ever before. Cops tend to get more training, and departments are guided by defined rules and procedures. Most decent-size police agencies have internal affairs departments, and a growing number of cities have installed citizen review boards.

That hardly means there are no problems in policing today, of course, or that these developments suffice to safeguard civil liberties. But it’s likely that the ubiquity of cellphone cameras and the diffusive power of social media are simply making us more aware of rule-breaking cops, rather than showing that there are more of them than before.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...fdbc612bff8_story.html?utm_term=.38f96453ff7c

 

[ksen]

I see authoritarians getting boners.

They don't actually intend to use it. It's just a recruiting tool.

The boners?

 

[Axulus]

What’s striking in the progression of these later studies is a steady decrease in the number of people having interactions with the police—from about 45 million in 2002 to 40 million in 2011—or from about 21 percent of the 16-and-older population to about 17 percent. One clear reason for the decline has been the corresponding drop in crime: the number of people reporting crimes or other problems to the police fell by about 3.6 million from a peak in 2002. More important, perhaps, was that reports of use of force by police also fell, from 664,000 in 2002 to 574,000 in a 2010 report. Those declines occurred across all races. The number of African-Americans reporting that police used force against them fell from 173,000 to 130,000. Among whites, the number has dropped from a peak of 374,000 to 347,000.
...

Since 1994, Washington has produced other legislation meant to monitor how local law enforcement behaves. In 2000, for instance, Congress passed the Death in Custody Act, which mandated that the Justice Department collect data on deaths in local and state prisons, including data by race. These data show no startling trends that might raise flags about how those arrested and incarcerated locally get treated. Average mortality in local prisons measured per 100,000 prisoners has decreased from 151 in 2000 to 128 in 2012. Among African-Americans, average mortality has dropped from 127 per 100,000 to 109.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/what-numbers-say-police-use-force-11472.html

 

[Axulus]

So, since there is nothing in the data to indicate the rate of police use of unlawful or excessive force is increasing in any given encounter (in fact, it is declining somewhat), what is the basis for the fear?

At what percent chance of any given encounter turning into a situation of excessive/unlawful use of force, when calling the police, is fear justified? Or are some people claiming the fear may be unjustified but that is still a problem?

 

[RavenSky]

Dumb only in the sense that we allow cops to act like feral animals and not civilized human beings.

No. She gets out of her car to confront the car and he asks for his safety for her to get back. She's upset that she is getting a ticket...

Interesting spin you put on it to continue blaming the victim.

Please provide evidence she "she gets out of her car to confront the [cop]"

Also provide evidence that he "asks for his safety for her to get back" and, if so, that she failed to comply. One article about the case said she tried to get back in the car. It didn't say he asked/ordered her to do so, and it didn't say what happened when she tried (i.e. did the cop tell her to stop, or order her back out? Did she get back out on her own?) Since you are trying to argue that the point of her being in or out of the car matters, support your claims.

 

[RavenSky]

1) You don't contest the traffic offense at the scene. That's for the courtroom.

She may have said to the 911 operator that she didn't cross the double white lines, but there is not evidence that she "contest[ed] the traffic offense at the scene"

2) You don't get out of your car at a traffic stop unless told to.

No law forbids it

3) She is not describing anything that warrants fear.

Oh no? Look what happened to her

And reading the rest of the article:

4) She seems totally clueless.

Same could be said about a lot of people. That doesn't excuse the cop for escalating a traffic stop needlessly and arresting her.

Traffic stop reality: You sign the ticket or you go to jail. If you try to resist this you'll get a resisting arrest charge on top of it.

Message board reality: Your spin and opinions are not facts. If you want to draw conclusions without backing up your claims, you'll get no respect and probably get a snarky reply on top of it.

 

[Underseer]

It's hardly just black people.

If I were to witness a crime, I am legally obligated to report it to the police, or else i can be considered an accessory after the fact, but if I call the cops, there is a chance that the cops will murder someone, possibly even someone who did nothing wrong.

So morally, it only makes sense to call the police if you want someone to be killed. If I stumbled upon an "active shooter situation," I would absolutely call the police because killing the shooter would be the least bad moral outcome, but in any other situation, I would have to think long and hard before making that phone call. I would have to weigh the possible legal consequences of not reporting a crime against the moral consequences of doing something that causes cops to murder someone.

I currently live in an upper middle class neighborhood, so as long as there are no minorities in the area and all the people involved are white, it should be safe to call the police in most cases.

 

[coloradoatheist]

No. She gets out of her car to confront the car and he asks for his safety for her to get back. She's upset that she is getting a ticket...

Interesting spin you put on it to continue blaming the victim.

Please provide evidence she "she gets out of her car to confront the [cop]"

Also provide evidence that he "asks for his safety for her to get back" and, if so, that she failed to comply. One article about the case said she tried to get back in the car. It didn't say he asked/ordered her to do so, and it didn't say what happened when she tried (i.e. did the cop tell her to stop, or order her back out? Did she get back out on her own?) Since you are trying to argue that the point of her being in or out of the car matters, support your claims.

She wasn't the victim though. She was pulled over for a traffic violation and was upset that she was pulled over for it. She refused to show the cop her driver's license and registration. Is it required by law to show your three items? She went back to the car and then was just talking to 911 and ignoring the officer and he was patient until until she started saying he was harassing her just for a normal traffic stop.

- - - Updated - - -

It's hardly just black people.

If I were to witness a crime, I am legally obligated to report it to the police, or else i can be considered an accessory after the fact, but if I call the cops, there is a chance that the cops will murder someone, possibly even someone who did nothing wrong.

So morally, it only makes sense to call the police if you want someone to be killed. If I stumbled upon an "active shooter situation," I would absolutely call the police because killing the shooter would be the least bad moral outcome, but in any other situation, I would have to think long and hard before making that phone call. I would have to weigh the possible legal consequences of not reporting a crime against the moral consequences of doing something that causes cops to murder someone.

I currently live in an upper middle class neighborhood, so as long as there are no minorities in the area and all the people involved are white, it should be safe to call the police in most cases.

I guess we missed you and that weird crazy logic that doesn't make sense.

 

[Mumbles]

That reminds me of this one I read a few weeks ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...police-officer-he-then-violently-arrests-her/

You are not supposed to exit a vehicle unless told to do so. Whether you are black or White.

As far as the overall issue, I blame #BLM (and black radicalism/nationalism in general) for fomenting hostility toward police. Had White not reacted with paranoia toward police in the first place, she would never had been arrested. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What's amusing is that you apparently think this is new - either that, or you think Black Lives Matter is decades old. I never considered calling the police when I was, say, beaten up in the street back in the 80s, and I didn't know anyone who would. The only difference these days is that studies on it are getting out via the internet, much like how police shootings are getting out thanks to social media and smartphones.

 

[laughing dog]

No. You said it was a self-fulfilling prophecy which means the fear was there prior to the stop. And she certainly did not create the situation by herself. So that does not explain why she was afraid of that police officer.

That would be the fruits of black radicalism, the latest instance of which is #BLM. They have been spreading the nonsense about there being an open season on black people.

Your speculations reveal much more about you than they do about reality.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

She got out of the car, he said get back in and then she played the games. She wasn't paying to him so he could give her the citation. The cop isn't going to spend the next 10 hours waiting for you. Loren summed it up too.

Nothing you wrote addresses my "Perhaps if you could point how this is relevant to the issue of black people being fearful of police, your position might become understandable"

This case was presented as an example of black fear--yet it appears to involve no wrongdoing on the part of the police. She's being terrified of nothing. It looks like BLM turned a traffic ticket into a resisting arrest charge.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Look at that vehicle more carefully.

See any weapons on it?

See the writing on it? "Rescue vehicle".

Stuff like that exists to pull people out of dangerous situations, not to threaten anyone.

Dangerous situations like what, Waco... after the fire had started?!

More like getting people away from an active shooter.

- - - Updated - - -

Look at that vehicle more carefully.

See any weapons on it?

See the writing on it? "Rescue vehicle".

Stuff like that exists to pull people out of dangerous situations, not to threaten anyone.

I see two Assault Rifles, a small turret on top that can have a heavy weapon mounted on it, and firing ports beneath each window on the side of the vehicle. "Rescue Vehicle" indeed.

The vehicle could be armed, that doesn't mean it is.

- - - Updated - - -

BearCats are typically referred to by law enforcement agencies as being "armored rescue vehicles"[15] with their primary use being to transport tactical (SWAT/Special Reaction Teams) officers to and from hostile situations and to assist with the recovery and protection of civilians in harm's way during terrorist threats, hostage incidents, or encounters with large gatherings of aggressors.[16][17] The Bearcat is designed to provide protection from a variety of small arms, explosives and IED threats.[16] Like its larger cousin the B.E.A.R, the Bearcat is able to be fitted with the "MARS" Mobile Adjustable Ramp System which allows tactical officers to gain entry to elevated platforms such as second story windows or aircraft.[18][19]
Lenco BearCats have been credited with saving the lives of officers in armed confrontations on numerous occasions. In 2010 in Athens, Texas an armed offender fired more than 35 rounds from a semi-automatic AK-74 rifle at tactical police. Not one round penetrated the Bearcat.[20] In June 2012 a BearCat, belonging to the Central Bucks Emergency Response Team, took 28 rounds from a "high powered rifle" during a siege with no rounds penetrating the vehicle.[21] In November 2015, a BearCat was used by police to rescue civilians during the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting.[22] The Oklahoma County Sheriff's Office Bearcat was shot between four and seven times with a rifle during an incident on December 29, 2015. Sheriff Whetsel was quoted as saying the Bearcat saved the Deputies' lives.[23] On June 12, 2016, a Bearcat was used to breach Pulse nightclub after a gunman shot and killed 49 clubgoers and injured 53 others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenco_BearCat

Thank you. I recognized the purpose of the vehicle but I didn't know the name to look it up.

 

[laughing dog]

Nothing you wrote addresses my "Perhaps if you could point how this is relevant to the issue of black people being fearful of police, your position might become understandable"

This case was presented as an example of black fear--yet it appears to involve no wrongdoing on the part of the police. She's being terrified of nothing.

That is the entire point of the OP - she is terrified of the police even though there was no observable reason.

It looks like BLM turned a traffic ticket into a resisting arrest charge.

That response assumes that black people are gullible idiots who cannot think for themselves and gives them no credit for incorporating what they have experienced and witnessed in their lives. The hand-waved BLM scapegoat is the refuge of the unthinking police apologists and bigots.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

3) She is not describing anything that warrants fear.

Oh no? Look what happened to her

What happened to her is she refused to sign the ticket and then refused to come along with the cop to jail. Are you saying she was afraid she was in danger from the law she was going to break???

Traffic stop reality: You sign the ticket or you go to jail. If you try to resist this you'll get a resisting arrest charge on top of it.

Message board reality: Your spin and opinions are not facts. If you want to draw conclusions without backing up your claims, you'll get no respect and probably get a snarky reply on top of it.

Ask a cop what happens when you refuse to sign a ticket.

 

[coloradoatheist]

This case was presented as an example of black fear--yet it appears to involve no wrongdoing on the part of the police. She's being terrified of nothing.

That is the entire point of the OP - she is terrified of the police even though there was no observable reason.

It looks like BLM turned a traffic ticket into a resisting arrest charge.

That response assumes that black people are gullible idiots who cannot think for themselves and gives them no credit for incorporating what they have experienced and witnessed in their lives. The hand-waved BLM scapegoat is the refuge of the unthinking police apologists and bigots.

She was upset that she was going to get a traffic violation ticket so she refused to cooperate. So should black people get out of being pulled over for traffic violations?

 

[lpetrich]

(Referring to black people being reluctant to call the police out of fear that they may be targeted)

All you defenders of police brutality here, is that what you want to see happening?

Who here are "defenders of police brutality"?

The people who act as if there is no case of police brutality or police murder that they are unwilling to defend.

 

[RavenSky]

Interesting spin you put on it to continue blaming the victim.

Please provide evidence she "she gets out of her car to confront the [cop]"

Also provide evidence that he "asks for his safety for her to get back" and, if so, that she failed to comply. One article about the case said she tried to get back in the car. It didn't say he asked/ordered her to do so, and it didn't say what happened when she tried (i.e. did the cop tell her to stop, or order her back out? Did she get back out on her own?) Since you are trying to argue that the point of her being in or out of the car matters, support your claims.

She wasn't the victim though.

She was a victim of police over-reaction that caused him to arrest her and resulted in her sitting in jail for two days for a minor traffic stop.

She was pulled over for a traffic violation and was upset that she was pulled over for it.

Normal feeling for the circumstances and not a crime

She refused to show the cop her driver's license and registration.

So you say. Where is the evidence?

She went back to the car and then was just talking to 911 and ignoring the officer and he was patient until until she started saying he was harassing her just for a normal traffic stop.

So you are saying that the police officer escalated a traffic stop into arresting her and causing her to spend 2 days in jail because he got his feelers hurt? It appears to me that his behavior proves she had justified reason to be afraid of him.