Boosting cell phone reception in underground parking garages

[nataliadonnelly]

I am not able to get cell phone reception in my underground parking garage where I live. The strange thing is that the Property Manager has a signal with his phone. So on the internet, I saw that a company is advertising, that they can install a cell phone reception booster in the parking garage ,to be able to get a signal down there. Is this true or is it just a gimmick ? I sent an e mail asking the condo board if they could consider this for our garage .

 

[steve_bank]

We don't get reception in the middle of our building.

It has to do wit the radio frequency of the signal.

Is there a need to make calls in the garage?

 

[Tigers!]

You can get repeaters that will send the mobile signal to an enclosed area i.e. underground garage but cost vs. utility.
As mentioned above is the need that important?

 

[Tigers!]

I am not able to get cell phone reception in my underground parking garage where I live. The strange thing is that the Property Manager has a signal with his phone. So on the internet, I saw that a company is advertising, that they can install a cell phone reception booster in the parking garage ,to be able to get a signal down there. Is this true or is it just a gimmick ? I sent an e mail asking the condo board if they could consider this for our garage .

Welcome aboard new user.

 

[ZiprHead]

Cell phone signal repeaters are common devices. I can understand wanting cell signal in a parking garage for safety reasons.

I suspect your property manager has a different service provider than the one you use. There's a cell tower a block behind my house but it's obviously not a Verizon tower because I have almost no bars on my phone when I'm at home.

 

[Jarhyn]

Cell phone signal repeaters are common devices. I can understand wanting cell signal in a parking garage for safety reasons.

I suspect your property manager has a different service provider than the one you use. There's a cell tower a block behind my house but it's obviously not a Verizon tower because I have almost no bars on my phone when I'm at home.

In fact being right next to a reciever/transmitter can actually tank reception.

The issue is that the transmitter can end up being too loud for the sensitivity of the antenna and instead of being able to convert this scream, the peaks and valleys of the wave just get cut off after a certain point, and this ends up cutting off data being carried in the wave.

I remember growing up and visiting my grandparents who had a TV broadcast antenna on their orchard. They got exactly one channel fairly well, but still fairly full of noise and static(guess which!) And every other channel came in as garbled mess.

 

[steve_bank]

Cell phones automatically adjust transmit power to the minimum needed. Limits the total cell phone energy in the environment.

The receiver front end likely has a limiter to prevent overload damage. The receiver has a limited dynamic range as do all radio receivers. Dynamic range being the difference between the lowest and the highest signal that the reliever can tolerate expressed in db.

There is AGC automatic gain control. Signal goes up receiver gain goes down, signal goes down receiver gain goes up. When a signal is outside the high dynamic range the receiver goes non linear.

Put a sine wave into an audio amp and increase the amplitude. At some point the output clips and is no longer a sine. Linear dynamic range is exceeded and the anp has gone nonlinear.

 

[ZiprHead]

Put a sine wave into an audio amp and increase the amplitude. At some point the output clips and is no longer a sine. Linear dynamic range is exceeded and the anp has gone nonlinear.

Reminds me of being in a car stereo place a few years ago. A couple teenagers came in with a couple huge subwoofers in their arms. While waiting for the clerk who was helping other customers we got to talking. The one guy said they bought those SWs a few weeks ago and they sounded great at first. Now they sound terrible and they smell burnt. He said "I have a thousand watt amp and these are rated to take a thousand watts." I immediately figured out what was going on but all I said was "You know enough to be dangerous". The clerk told them they have to place them back into the system and come back with the whole car.

Obviously he figured 1000 watt amp, 1000 watt speakers. Turn the gain all the way up. Obviously he didn't know power rating of amplifiers is where they stop putting out clean power. After that you get clipping and you might as well just hook the speakers up straight to the car battery. Not to mention the high frequency harmonics that come with the clipping.

 

[bilby]

Put a sine wave into an audio amp and increase the amplitude. At some point the output clips and is no longer a sine. Linear dynamic range is exceeded and the anp has gone nonlinear.

Reminds me of being in a car stereo place a few years ago. A couple teenagers came in with a couple huge subwoofers in their arms. While waiting for the clerk who was helping other customers we got to talking. The one guy said they bought those SWs a few weeks ago and they sounded great at first. Now they sound terrible and they smell burnt. He said "I have a thousand watt amp and these are rated to take a thousand watts." I immediately figured out what was going on but all I said was "You know enough to be dangerous". The clerk told them they have to place them back into the system and come back with the whole car.

Obviously he figured 1000 watt amp, 1000 watt speakers. Turn the gain all the way up. Obviously he didn't know power rating of amplifiers is where they stop putting out clean power. After that you get clipping and you might as well just hook the speakers up straight to the car battery. Not to mention the high frequency harmonics that come with the clipping.

If he's been inside a car with a kilowatt of amplified music, it's almost impressive that he is still able to hear anything at all.

 

[steve_bank]

Put a sine wave into an audio amp and increase the amplitude. At some point the output clips and is no longer a sine. Linear dynamic range is exceeded and the anp has gone nonlinear.

Reminds me of being in a car stereo place a few years ago. A couple teenagers came in with a couple huge subwoofers in their arms. While waiting for the clerk who was helping other customers we got to talking. The one guy said they bought those SWs a few weeks ago and they sounded great at first. Now they sound terrible and they smell burnt. He said "I have a thousand watt amp and these are rated to take a thousand watts." I immediately figured out what was going on but all I said was "You know enough to be dangerous". The clerk told them they have to place them back into the system and come back with the whole car.

Obviously he figured 1000 watt amp, 1000 watt speakers. Turn the gain all the way up. Obviously he didn't know power rating of amplifiers is where they stop putting out clean power. After that you get clipping and you might as well just hook the speakers up straight to the car battery. Not to mention the high frequency harmonics that come with the clipping.

I heard a report that siad car makers had to strengthen the windshield attachments because of audio levels.

 

[steve_bank]

Cell phone signal repeaters are common devices. I can understand wanting cell signal in a parking garage for safety reasons.

I suspect your property manager has a different service provider than the one you use. There's a cell tower a block behind my house but it's obviously not a Verizon tower because I have almost no bars on my phone when I'm at home.

In fact being right next to a reciever/transmitter can actually tank reception.

The issue is that the transmitter can end up being too loud for the sensitivity of the antenna and instead of being able to convert this scream, the peaks and valleys of the wave just get cut off after a certain point, and this ends up cutting off data being carried in the wave.

I remember growing up and visiting my grandparents who had a TV broadcast antenna on their orchard. They got exactly one channel fairly well, but still fairly full of noise and static(guess which!) And every other channel came in as garbled mess.

On some issue you said I was embarrassing myself.

Oh the sweet irony.

 

[Jarhyn]

Cell phone signal repeaters are common devices. I can understand wanting cell signal in a parking garage for safety reasons.

I suspect your property manager has a different service provider than the one you use. There's a cell tower a block behind my house but it's obviously not a Verizon tower because I have almost no bars on my phone when I'm at home.

In fact being right next to a reciever/transmitter can actually tank reception.

The issue is that the transmitter can end up being too loud for the sensitivity of the antenna and instead of being able to convert this scream, the peaks and valleys of the wave just get cut off after a certain point, and this ends up cutting off data being carried in the wave.

I remember growing up and visiting my grandparents who had a TV broadcast antenna on their orchard. They got exactly one channel fairly well, but still fairly full of noise and static(guess which!) And every other channel came in as garbled mess.

On some issue you said I was embarrassing myself.

Oh the sweet irony.

I was wrong about what exactly happened when it exited the range on which the system was designed, but the effect of tossing data still isn't going away. Too close to a powerful transmitter means too close for many antennas to pick up the output.

 

[Tigers!]

If he's been inside a car with a kilowatt of amplified music, it's almost impressive that he is still able to hear anything at all.

I'm sorry. I didn't catch what you said.

 

[steve_bank]

Cell phone signal repeaters are common devices. I can understand wanting cell signal in a parking garage for safety reasons.

I suspect your property manager has a different service provider than the one you use. There's a cell tower a block behind my house but it's obviously not a Verizon tower because I have almost no bars on my phone when I'm at home.

In fact being right next to a reciever/transmitter can actually tank reception.

The issue is that the transmitter can end up being too loud for the sensitivity of the antenna and instead of being able to convert this scream, the peaks and valleys of the wave just get cut off after a certain point, and this ends up cutting off data being carried in the wave.

I remember growing up and visiting my grandparents who had a TV broadcast antenna on their orchard. They got exactly one channel fairly well, but still fairly full of noise and static(guess which!) And every other channel came in as garbled mess.

On some issue you said I was embarrassing myself.

Oh the sweet irony.

I was wrong about what exactly happened when it exited the range on which the system was designed, but the effect of tossing data still isn't going away. Too close to a powerful transmitter means too close for many antennas to pick up the output.

It is not the antenna, it is the front end on the receiver. An antenna can not be overloaded. A thermal limit can be earched on a high powe transmitting antenna.

On a cell phone the antenna can be a copper trace on the circuit board. Don't know what 5G looks like.

An old electronic countermeasure for AM radios was to simply transmit a high power broad spectrum. It overloaded the fromt end.

I worked on a RADAR styem and an electronic countermeasure system.. Part of the RADAR testing was checking it against such a threat. I did antenna testing.

Cell phones go through similar testing for jamming.

When I worked on commercial avionics part of the EMI testing was putting it in a shielded room hitting it with the equivaent of flying low over a high power AM transmitter. Levels or radiation harmful to humans.

Yes being close to a tower can cause the cell to stop working, but it is not the receiving antenna.

If yiu want to ague EM theroy and radio wave propagation go ahead.

The solution is don't get too close to the tower? There are fundamntal desugn limits, it is not practical to design a cell phone that works next to a tower and there is little need for it.

I know the published health information on cell phones. Regardless of what is said I would not stand next to a tower for extended periods.

Thieve is plenty of information on the net on basic AM and FM radio with block diagrams and schmtaics.

Take a simple AM receiver in the broadcast band and start walking towards an AM staion tower.

 

[Jarhyn]

It is not the antenna, it is the front end on the receiver. An antenna can not be overloaded

Well, it can, but you're being pedantic.

When I say "antenna" I'm talking about the whole front end reciever.

It would take a lot of radiation to fuck up an antenna.

 

[ZiprHead]

Put a sine wave into an audio amp and increase the amplitude. At some point the output clips and is no longer a sine. Linear dynamic range is exceeded and the anp has gone nonlinear.

Reminds me of being in a car stereo place a few years ago. A couple teenagers came in with a couple huge subwoofers in their arms. While waiting for the clerk who was helping other customers we got to talking. The one guy said they bought those SWs a few weeks ago and they sounded great at first. Now they sound terrible and they smell burnt. He said "I have a thousand watt amp and these are rated to take a thousand watts." I immediately figured out what was going on but all I said was "You know enough to be dangerous". The clerk told them they have to place them back into the system and come back with the whole car.

Obviously he figured 1000 watt amp, 1000 watt speakers. Turn the gain all the way up. Obviously he didn't know power rating of amplifiers is where they stop putting out clean power. After that you get clipping and you might as well just hook the speakers up straight to the car battery. Not to mention the high frequency harmonics that come with the clipping.

If he's been inside a car with a kilowatt of amplified music, it's almost impressive that he is still able to hear anything at all.

I live on a somewhat busy street. These assholes go by with such systems they rattle my windows from a block away.

 

[steve_bank]

Put a sine wave into an audio amp and increase the amplitude. At some point the output clips and is no longer a sine. Linear dynamic range is exceeded and the anp has gone nonlinear.

Reminds me of being in a car stereo place a few years ago. A couple teenagers came in with a couple huge subwoofers in their arms. While waiting for the clerk who was helping other customers we got to talking. The one guy said they bought those SWs a few weeks ago and they sounded great at first. Now they sound terrible and they smell burnt. He said "I have a thousand watt amp and these are rated to take a thousand watts." I immediately figured out what was going on but all I said was "You know enough to be dangerous". The clerk told them they have to place them back into the system and come back with the whole car.

Obviously he figured 1000 watt amp, 1000 watt speakers. Turn the gain all the way up. Obviously he didn't know power rating of amplifiers is where they stop putting out clean power. After that you get clipping and you might as well just hook the speakers up straight to the car battery. Not to mention the high frequency harmonics that come with the clipping.

If he's been inside a car with a kilowatt of amplified music, it's almost impressive that he is still able to hear anything at all.

I live on a somewhat busy street. These assholes go by with such systems they rattle my windows from a block away.

In the news a car company is designing an EV muscle car. Thy are ading pipes that will sound like a gas engine, 100db.

 

[steve_bank]

It is not the antenna, it is the front end on the receiver. An antenna can not be overloaded

Well, it can, but you're being pedantic.

When I say "antenna" I'm talking about the whole front end reciever.

It would take a lot of radiation to fuck up an antenna.

Basic theory pedantic?

Sounds like one of those stupid answers on your other thread. An antenna and the front end are two different things. It is like saying front end of a car means the engine as well.

All's you have to do is say I really don't know anything about radios. Nobody knows everything. I know very little theoretical math so I don't usually post on math threads. It would be silly for me to try and keep up with those who know math in depth.

'fuck up an antenna'?

I suppose if the induced voltage was high enough there could be dielectric breakdown and arching.

Dynamic range is the ratio of the largest to the smallest signal in db. If you increase the high end of the dynamic range than lowest signal goes up reducing reception range. Design in general is often a tradeoff of parameters.

 

[Jarhyn]

Sounds like one of those stupid answers on your other thread. An antenna and the front end are two different things. It is like saying front end of a car means the engine as well.

Not for the majority of consideration for most people. "My cellphone doesn't have a 5-g antenna" in common use is a reference to the full front end receiver.

For the record, I've seen some actual antennas get so hot that they stop working properly, or even start to arc out and even melt. Those were transmitter antennas though.

More appropriately, it would be like calling "everything under the hood" or even "the power train", "the engine".

It's not entirely accurate to the pedant but it isn't important to the discussion either.

What is important for most of us is "too much energy in wave make thing hear only noise."

 

[ZiprHead]

Put a sine wave into an audio amp and increase the amplitude. At some point the output clips and is no longer a sine. Linear dynamic range is exceeded and the anp has gone nonlinear.

Reminds me of being in a car stereo place a few years ago. A couple teenagers came in with a couple huge subwoofers in their arms. While waiting for the clerk who was helping other customers we got to talking. The one guy said they bought those SWs a few weeks ago and they sounded great at first. Now they sound terrible and they smell burnt. He said "I have a thousand watt amp and these are rated to take a thousand watts." I immediately figured out what was going on but all I said was "You know enough to be dangerous". The clerk told them they have to place them back into the system and come back with the whole car.

Obviously he figured 1000 watt amp, 1000 watt speakers. Turn the gain all the way up. Obviously he didn't know power rating of amplifiers is where they stop putting out clean power. After that you get clipping and you might as well just hook the speakers up straight to the car battery. Not to mention the high frequency harmonics that come with the clipping.

If he's been inside a car with a kilowatt of amplified music, it's almost impressive that he is still able to hear anything at all.

I live on a somewhat busy street. These assholes go by with such systems they rattle my windows from a block away.

In the news a car company is designing an EV muscle car. Thy are ading pipes that will sound like a gas engine, 100db.

127 db, I've read. It also includes fake shift points so it feels like a multi-geared transmission.