Breakdown In Civil Order

Derec

Contributor
Getting back to the Portland unrest that was in the early days of this thread...

That's the one kind of crime the Antifa DA of Multnomah County is eager to prosecute. Crimes committed by his Antifa buddies and their #BLM confederates not so much.
It is pretty safe to riot and even assault police officers in Portland. As long as you are a leftist.

Derec

Contributor
That's an inevitable consequence of massive wealth disparity.
That's bullshit. It's a consequence of people wanting things like latest iPhone or Yeezys without having to work for them.

The solutions are either the traditional (ie medieval) option of employing vast numbers of hired thugs to defend the wealth of the aristocracy from the masses of the poor,
Most victims of the crime are not the "aristocracy", but lower and middle class folk.
And the "masses of the poor"? Really? The poor get subsidized a lot in the US. There are things like EITC and child tax credit that can result in a negative effective tax rate. Then there is SNAP, rental assistance, etc. Nobody has to steal and rob just to eat. If you rob a store or jack a car, it is to fulfill your wants, not needs, without working.
Like the cousin of a burglar who got shot by his victim asked: "how he gonna get his money"? I dunno. Why don't you get a job?
The teenage perp did not even look poor in his photos - newish clothes, lots of jewelry including grills on his teeth.

and building high security compounds in which the lords and ladies can feel secure; Or the modern (ie mid-20th century) option of providing employment opportunities and a strong safety net to ensure that grinding poverty remains rare.
There is a safety net. Why do some people on here pretend contemporary US is something out of Grapes of Wrath or Les Misérables? People don't steal loaves of bread. They rob $2k worth of cold medicine to turn into$40k worth of meth.

Your problem is that you want to have your brute squad and your castle, but you can't afford them. So you expect the taxpayer to provide them for you.
Maintaining public safety and arresting and prosecuting criminals is one of the core raisons d'être of government. Without it, the social contact collapses and with it the legitimacy of the government.
So yes, this is one of the things that taxpayers absolutely need to fund. Unlike "free" childcare or "civilian climate corps" or diversity officers at public universities which are all way down the priority list.

Dressing up greed for public funds to support US, but not THEM, as a call for 'law and order' has been popular with the not-quite-rich for thousands of years. But it remains despicable.
People who are in the so-called working class often get victimized by criminals, especially violent criminals. These pro-crime policies are not popular with common people nearly as much as they are with the left-wing elites in their ivory towers. Or Congress for that matter where people like Cory Bush preach defunding police for the common folk while she hires private security for herself.

laughing dog

Contributor
Riight, there was no "Left" before Trump.
Who said there wasn't?
The people in the exchange of
"The Left just can’t live without Trump." followed by "Amen to that! If he did not exist, they'd have to invent him. "

bilby

Fair dinkum thinkum
That's an inevitable consequence of massive wealth disparity.
That's bullshit. It's a consequence of people wanting things like latest iPhone or Yeezys without having to work for them.

The solutions are either the traditional (ie medieval) option of employing vast numbers of hired thugs to defend the wealth of the aristocracy from the masses of the poor,
Most victims of the crime are not the "aristocracy", but lower and middle class folk.
And the "masses of the poor"? Really? The poor get subsidized a lot in the US. There are things like EITC and child tax credit that can result in a negative effective tax rate. Then there is SNAP, rental assistance, etc. Nobody has to steal and rob just to eat. If you rob a store or jack a car, it is to fulfill your wants, not needs, without working.
Like the cousin of a burglar who got shot by his victim asked: "how he gonna get his money"? I dunno. Why don't you get a job?
The teenage perp did not even look poor in his photos - newish clothes, lots of jewelry including grills on his teeth.

and building high security compounds in which the lords and ladies can feel secure; Or the modern (ie mid-20th century) option of providing employment opportunities and a strong safety net to ensure that grinding poverty remains rare.
There is a safety net. Why do some people on here pretend contemporary US is something out of Grapes of Wrath or Les Misérables? People don't steal loaves of bread. They rob $2k worth of cold medicine to turn into$40k worth of meth.

Your problem is that you want to have your brute squad and your castle, but you can't afford them. So you expect the taxpayer to provide them for you.
Maintaining public safety and arresting and prosecuting criminals is one of the core raisons d'être of government. Without it, the social contact collapses and with it the legitimacy of the government.
So yes, this is one of the things that taxpayers absolutely need to fund. Unlike "free" childcare or "civilian climate corps" or diversity officers at public universities which are all way down the priority list.

Dressing up greed for public funds to support US, but not THEM, as a call for 'law and order' has been popular with the not-quite-rich for thousands of years. But it remains despicable.
People who are in the so-called working class often get victimized by criminals, especially violent criminals. These pro-crime policies are not popular with common people nearly as much as they are with the left-wing elites in their ivory towers. Or Congress for that matter where people like Cory Bush preach defunding police for the common folk while she hires private security for herself.
Are you aware that your entire long-winded response basically just repeats my points, but spun to imply that all the problems are somehow the fault of people that are not you?

The US 'safety net' is a fucking joke. Because that's how YOU want it to be. It's your fault that your country is going to shit, and you are calling for more of the same failed responses that got you there to begin with.

The elites in their ivory towers are playing you like a fiddle; And the fact that you honestly appear to think that it's ONLY those "elites" who claim to be 'left-wing' that are a problem is a perfect illustration of this.

The aristocrats are quite happy to see the middle classes battling the poor - it means both are too busy to start thinking about guillotines.

As long as they have you fooled into thinking that your latest iPhone and Yeezys (whatever the fuck Yeezys are) separates wealthy from poor, and fighting to ensure that the undeserving don't get these pathetic symbols of trivial wealth, you won't notice that they're siphoning off private jet and super-yacht money from you all.

Derec

Contributor
The people in the exchange of
"The Left just can’t live without Trump." followed by "Amen to that! If he did not exist, they'd have to invent him. "
None of which implies that there was no Left before Trump unless you read it in such a wooden literal sense that I am starting to seriously think you are some artificial intelligence experiment Jay and Zipr are running.
Good job guys. You had me going for a while here!

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
The people in the exchange of
"The Left just can’t live without Trump." followed by "Amen to that! If he did not exist, they'd have to invent him. "
None of which implies that there was no Left before Trump unless you read it in such a wooden literal sense that I am starting to seriously think you are some artificial intelligence experiment Jay and Zipr are running.
Good job guys. You had me going for a while here!
Damn, you caught us.

Derec

Contributor
Are you aware that your entire long-winded response basically just repeats my points, but spun to imply that all the problems are somehow the fault of people that are not you?
Less long winded than yours, and no, I am not aware of such a ridiculous proposition.

The US 'safety net' is a fucking joke. Because that's how YOU want it to be.
In terms of total social safety expenditures, it is certainly no joke. When you add up all programs, it adds up to a pretty penny, especially lately.
Now, I think the way these programs are structured leaves a lot to be desired. So it is definitely not how I want it to be.

Mine? I am not in Congress. I am not a DA. I am not even a mayor. How is it my fault?
and you are calling for more of the same failed responses that got you there to begin with.

I disagree that the responses have been a failure. I think the response to high crime rates of the 70s and 80s (including the much maligned Crime Bill) was in part responsible for why the crime rates came down.
I do think however that there are too many people locked up for things that should not be against the law in the first place or should be a fine at the most. But stealing and robbing, as well as assaults and the like should not be among them.
The problem with how crime is dealt with in US is one of overcorrections. The pendulum is swinging wider back and forth than the one in the Panthéon in Paris. Currently we are in the phase of an overcorrection toward being too soft on crime.

What needs to happen is to be smart on crime. It's a good idea to fully legalize weed. And even for drugs that we do not want to actually legalize, it makes no sense to lock up end users. Sex work should also be fully legalized.

However, that does not mean we should be soft on theft, robbery, assaults or even murders as these fake progressive DAs are doing.

The elites in their ivory towers are playing you like a fiddle;
They are not.
And the fact that you honestly appear to think that it's ONLY those "elites" who claim to be 'left-wing' that are a problem is a perfect illustration of this.
The reference to left wing elites like Cory Bush was specific to their demand to defund police . There are different problems with right wing elites of course.

The aristocrats are quite happy to see the middle classes battling the poor - it means both are too busy to start thinking about guillotines.
Guillotines is quite a bit overdramatic. And we should not equate the poor with the criminal element. In fact, the poor are often the victims of the criminals that these fauxgressives are coddling.

As long as they have you fooled into thinking that your latest iPhone and Yeezys (whatever the fuck Yeezys are) separates wealthy from poor,
Who claimed that they are "what separates wealthy from poor"? They were examples of the type of material goods the street level criminals holding up stores or robbing trains are interested in. And btw, Yeezy's are fugly overpriced sneakers associated with Kanye West. Who is a US rapper.

and fighting to ensure that the undeserving don't get these pathetic symbols of trivial wealth,
I have no problem people spending their own money how they see fit. I have a problem with people spending money on such things and then complain that they have no money for food or rent and seek public assistance. And even more I have a problem with people wanting these things and instead of working for them decide that holding up a store or cutting a catalytic converter from somebody's car is a good way to get it. You seem to have no problem with them, just with so-called "wealth inequality".
So what is your solution? Up welfare so that everybody can afford luxury items without having to work? So why should people work then? We saw a preview of what those policies would result in when the overly generous COVID payments resulted in people quitting their jobs en masse.

you won't notice that they're siphoning off private jet and super-yacht money from you all.
There is a difference between earning money and stealing it. If you earned it, I see no problem with you buying a jet. If you stole it, I have a problem with you even buying a bike with the proceeds.

The only cartoonish one is you.

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
You should feel safe. You don't because every terrible incident that occurs in the US is instantly available for all to read. Crime is down. It has been going down since the early 1990s. Is it because of legalized abortion or unleaded gas? No one knows for sure. But it is down. Way down over the last thirty years. It is no more prevalent in the US than other wealthy nations until... you get... to the part... about... guns. Yep. Guns. That's where we outshine all others. And even these are not due to crimes with guns. The guns come in during social exchanges, arguments, etc. So we just end up with more people in the morgue. By gun toting Prius owners and the like.

Most of the people who end up dead by guns are criminals themselves. And note that you say "no more prevalent" that's actually an understatement--it tends to be lower here, not merely equal.

Everyone thinks crime is up in the United States. Well, Republicans do anyways. But you ask about their own personal experiences and it's another story. Me thinks crime is up on Fox News and similar internet sites. But that's just a theory. People who suffer more crime are young and poor. There is no difference by race or gender (whatever that means). A little gender humor.

Agreed--it's Faux Noise that keeps beating the crime drum. The average person is very unlikely to be in a position where defending themselves with a gun is the best course of action. Note, however, that not all people are average.

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Homes. Mental health services. Drug addiction services. Just what the state is doing.

So you’ve got you anti-camping ordinance. The answer without a solution. I guess if you’re homeless, you just walk around indefinitely.

Doesn't work.

Homes are a good solution for the economic homeless. They don't work on the mentally ill. Nor do mental health services--you have to want help for the doctors to have any ability to actually help you and in many cases there aren't good solutions.

TV and credit cards

Veteran Member
Homes. Mental health services. Drug addiction services. Just what the state is doing.

So you’ve got you anti-camping ordinance. The answer without a solution. I guess if you’re homeless, you just walk around indefinitely.

Doesn't work.

Homes are a good solution for the economic homeless. They don't work on the mentally ill. Nor do mental health services--you have to want help for the doctors to have any ability to actually help you and in many cases there aren't good solutions.
It’s not like everyone who walks in off the street gets the deluxe package. It’s not a car wash now is it? There are targeted services for the individual’s needs or a family’s needs. It could be temporary housing, permanent housing, drug treatment, employment assistance, even hospice care so people don’t have to die alone on the street. It’s giving people the help they need. It’s also outreach, providing basic necessities for those who do not want to come in off the street.

Gospel

Unify Africa
It's a good idea to fully legalize weed. And even for drugs that we do not want to actually legalize, it makes no sense to lock up end users. Sex work should also be fully legalized.

Every time you say this I can't help but smile. I really like this idea.

laughing dog

Contributor
The people in the exchange of
"The Left just can’t live without Trump." followed by "Amen to that! If he did not exist, they'd have to invent him. "
None of which implies that there was no Left before Trump unless you read it in such a wooden literal sense that I am starting to seriously think you are some artificial intelligence experiment Jay and Zipr are running.
Good job guys. You had me going for a while here!

If the Left existed before Trump, that means it can live without Trump. If the Left existed before Trump, the Left would not need to invent Trump.
Perhaps you could use some artificial intelligence with a sarcasm detector add-on in helping your respond to posts.

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
BEFORE RECENT WAVE OF TRAIN CARGO THEFTS, UNION PACIFIC LAID OFF UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF ITS RAILROAD POLICE FORCE

News organizations both locally and nationally have been covering the rise of cargo theft in L.A.’s northeast train tracks in the past few days. Anchors on morning news have been quick to point out that there have been over 100 arrests, and even Forbes have been quick to point out the staggering $5 million worth of merchandise lifted. L.A. TACO first reported on this last November. Union Pacific, the train company, has gone so far as blasting L.A. District Attorney George Gascon for his policy that has enabled this rampant rise in theft. However, one major development that may be directly correlated with the rise in theft has continuously been left out: In September of 2020, due to pandemic-related budget cuts, Union Pacific laid off an unspecified number of employees across the railroad system. Including members of its railroad-only police force. Despite record profits in the billions in the last quarter of 2021. A Union Pacific worker, who asked to remain nameless, came forward to L.A. TACO. In their opinion, the company should “shoulder some of the responsibility instead of just pointing fingers.” The Union Pacific Police department has jurisdiction over the 32,000 miles of track Union Pacific owns. Many of these “special agents” used to patrol this now infamous stretch of track. According to the source, the number of patrolling officers has been cut from 50 to 60 agents to eight, which the worker thinks has led to an increase in train robberies. Loren Pechtel Super Moderator Staff member BEFORE RECENT WAVE OF TRAIN CARGO THEFTS, UNION PACIFIC LAID OFF UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF ITS RAILROAD POLICE FORCE News organizations both locally and nationally have been covering the rise of cargo theft in L.A.’s northeast train tracks in the past few days. Anchors on morning news have been quick to point out that there have been over 100 arrests, and even Forbes have been quick to point out the staggering$5 million worth of merchandise lifted. L.A. TACO first reported on this last November.

Union Pacific, the train company, has gone so far as blasting L.A. District Attorney George Gascon for his policy that has enabled this rampant rise in theft.

However, one major development that may be directly correlated with the rise in theft has continuously been left out: In September of 2020, due to pandemic-related budget cuts, Union Pacific laid off an unspecified number of employees across the railroad system. Including members of its railroad-only police force. Despite record profits in the billions in the last quarter of 2021.

A Union Pacific worker, who asked to remain nameless, came forward to L.A. TACO. In their opinion, the company should “shoulder some of the responsibility instead of just pointing fingers.”

The Union Pacific Police department has jurisdiction over the 32,000 miles of track Union Pacific owns. Many of these “special agents” used to patrol this now infamous stretch of track. According to the source, the number of patrolling officers has been cut from 50 to 60 agents to eight, which the worker thinks has led to an increase in train robberies.
"Unspecified" -- probably making a much bigger deal out of it than it really is.

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
BEFORE RECENT WAVE OF TRAIN CARGO THEFTS, UNION PACIFIC LAID OFF UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF ITS RAILROAD POLICE FORCE

News organizations both locally and nationally have been covering the rise of cargo theft in L.A.’s northeast train tracks in the past few days. Anchors on morning news have been quick to point out that there have been over 100 arrests, and even Forbes have been quick to point out the staggering $5 million worth of merchandise lifted. L.A. TACO first reported on this last November. Union Pacific, the train company, has gone so far as blasting L.A. District Attorney George Gascon for his policy that has enabled this rampant rise in theft. However, one major development that may be directly correlated with the rise in theft has continuously been left out: In September of 2020, due to pandemic-related budget cuts, Union Pacific laid off an unspecified number of employees across the railroad system. Including members of its railroad-only police force. Despite record profits in the billions in the last quarter of 2021. A Union Pacific worker, who asked to remain nameless, came forward to L.A. TACO. In their opinion, the company should “shoulder some of the responsibility instead of just pointing fingers.” The Union Pacific Police department has jurisdiction over the 32,000 miles of track Union Pacific owns. Many of these “special agents” used to patrol this now infamous stretch of track. According to the source, the number of patrolling officers has been cut from 50 to 60 agents to eight, which the worker thinks has led to an increase in train robberies. "Unspecified" -- probably making a much bigger deal out of it than it really is. Or making a smaller deal out of it than it really is. I wonder how the thieves know which cars to hit. I bet they are getting inside information from a disgruntled laid-off ex-employee. It's not like the cars say "Amazon shipment" on the sides. thebeave Veteran Member BEFORE RECENT WAVE OF TRAIN CARGO THEFTS, UNION PACIFIC LAID OFF UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF ITS RAILROAD POLICE FORCE News organizations both locally and nationally have been covering the rise of cargo theft in L.A.’s northeast train tracks in the past few days. Anchors on morning news have been quick to point out that there have been over 100 arrests, and even Forbes have been quick to point out the staggering$5 million worth of merchandise lifted. L.A. TACO first reported on this last November.

Union Pacific, the train company, has gone so far as blasting L.A. District Attorney George Gascon for his policy that has enabled this rampant rise in theft.

However, one major development that may be directly correlated with the rise in theft has continuously been left out: In September of 2020, due to pandemic-related budget cuts, Union Pacific laid off an unspecified number of employees across the railroad system. Including members of its railroad-only police force. Despite record profits in the billions in the last quarter of 2021.

A Union Pacific worker, who asked to remain nameless, came forward to L.A. TACO. In their opinion, the company should “shoulder some of the responsibility instead of just pointing fingers.”

The Union Pacific Police department has jurisdiction over the 32,000 miles of track Union Pacific owns. Many of these “special agents” used to patrol this now infamous stretch of track. According to the source, the number of patrolling officers has been cut from 50 to 60 agents to eight, which the worker thinks has led to an increase in train robberies.
This very well could be part of the problem. Rarely is there a sole cause for society's ills. On the other hand, this sorta sounds like victim blaming, doesn't it? Like telling a rape victim that its her fault she got raped because she didn't have a bodyguard with her when she went for a walk, or that she should have taken a class in self defense.

Jarhyn

Wizard
BEFORE RECENT WAVE OF TRAIN CARGO THEFTS, UNION PACIFIC LAID OFF UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF ITS RAILROAD POLICE FORCE

News organizations both locally and nationally have been covering the rise of cargo theft in L.A.’s northeast train tracks in the past few days. Anchors on morning news have been quick to point out that there have been over 100 arrests, and even Forbes have been quick to point out the staggering $5 million worth of merchandise lifted. L.A. TACO first reported on this last November. Union Pacific, the train company, has gone so far as blasting L.A. District Attorney George Gascon for his policy that has enabled this rampant rise in theft. However, one major development that may be directly correlated with the rise in theft has continuously been left out: In September of 2020, due to pandemic-related budget cuts, Union Pacific laid off an unspecified number of employees across the railroad system. Including members of its railroad-only police force. Despite record profits in the billions in the last quarter of 2021. A Union Pacific worker, who asked to remain nameless, came forward to L.A. TACO. In their opinion, the company should “shoulder some of the responsibility instead of just pointing fingers.” The Union Pacific Police department has jurisdiction over the 32,000 miles of track Union Pacific owns. Many of these “special agents” used to patrol this now infamous stretch of track. According to the source, the number of patrolling officers has been cut from 50 to 60 agents to eight, which the worker thinks has led to an increase in train robberies. This very well could be part of the problem. Rarely is there a sole cause for society's ills. On the other hand, this sorta sounds like victim blaming, doesn't it? Like telling a rape victim that its her fault she got raped because she didn't have a bodyguard with her when she went for a walk, or that she should have taken a class in self defense. So, telling someone it is their fault for rolling a cart full of gold bars down the street in the inner city unarmed, unwatched, and unprotected that it's their fault they got robbed is entirely reasonable. Some things it is unreasonable to expect of people anywhere to remain complacent. Some things we recognize are just needlessly stupidly risky. Like leaving container ships unguarded. Ok mean hell, I might not have bars on my windows but I do try to keep my door locked. Some common sense protection is good, and the relaxation of security measures IS a big problem. Yes, don't rob, no, dont be doing exactly the thing that says "this here can be robbed without consequences". I support the prosecution of crimes, of bringing consequence to evil acts. Sometimes that necessitates active security on juicy targets, preventing crimes of opportunity through preventing opportunity. Gospel Unify Africa Yeah I mean, it's obvious why Iran is not a place young American college girls have on their list of spring break locations. Some stuff is just obvious but god be damned if we say it. TSwizzle Let's Go Brandon! San Francisco is a shithole; A new 'linkage center' aimed at connecting homeless street addicts with drug rehab facilities opened in San Francisco last week - but distressing images show an open air illicit drug consumption site that is now littered with needles and crowded with addicts shooting up in broad daylight. Images taken by DailyMail.com show a woman slumped over in a wheelchair, her pants down around her ankles, preparing to inject a needle into her thigh. The woman sitting on the ground next to her has a needle to her neck. Many others are sitting on the ground among trash, empty food containers and dirty blankets, as they fumble in with drug paraphernalia in the cold weather. Daily Mail Politesse Lux Aeterna BEFORE RECENT WAVE OF TRAIN CARGO THEFTS, UNION PACIFIC LAID OFF UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF ITS RAILROAD POLICE FORCE News organizations both locally and nationally have been covering the rise of cargo theft in L.A.’s northeast train tracks in the past few days. Anchors on morning news have been quick to point out that there have been over 100 arrests, and even Forbes have been quick to point out the staggering$5 million worth of merchandise lifted. L.A. TACO first reported on this last November.

Union Pacific, the train company, has gone so far as blasting L.A. District Attorney George Gascon for his policy that has enabled this rampant rise in theft.

However, one major development that may be directly correlated with the rise in theft has continuously been left out: In September of 2020, due to pandemic-related budget cuts, Union Pacific laid off an unspecified number of employees across the railroad system. Including members of its railroad-only police force. Despite record profits in the billions in the last quarter of 2021.

A Union Pacific worker, who asked to remain nameless, came forward to L.A. TACO. In their opinion, the company should “shoulder some of the responsibility instead of just pointing fingers.”

The Union Pacific Police department has jurisdiction over the 32,000 miles of track Union Pacific owns. Many of these “special agents” used to patrol this now infamous stretch of track. According to the source, the number of patrolling officers has been cut from 50 to 60 agents to eight, which the worker thinks has led to an increase in train robberies.
"Unspecified" -- probably making a much bigger deal out of it than it really is.
Or making a smaller deal out of it than it really is.

I wonder how the thieves know which cars to hit. I bet they are getting inside information from a disgruntled laid-off ex-employee. It's not like the cars say "Amazon shipment" on the sides.
Well, going by the legal theory, posited in this thread, that their only motivation for the crime is to take advantage of a specific form of prosecutorial leniency, they'll have to choose a car that only has $1000 dollars of goods or less. Wouldn't want to grab the wrong box by accident and find out it to your doom that it has a$1,500 computer in it.

Politesse

Lux Aeterna
San Francisco is a shithole;

A new 'linkage center' aimed at connecting homeless street addicts with drug rehab facilities opened in San Francisco last week - but distressing images show an open air illicit drug consumption site that is now littered with needles and crowded with addicts shooting up in broad daylight. Images taken by DailyMail.com show a woman slumped over in a wheelchair, her pants down around her ankles, preparing to inject a needle into her thigh. The woman sitting on the ground next to her has a needle to her neck. Many others are sitting on the ground among trash, empty food containers and dirty blankets, as they fumble in with drug paraphernalia in the cold weather.

Daily Mail
The linkage center has drug users outside of it? How shocking.

If only they hadn't built that linkage center, drug use would never have originated. Those people would be drug-free, productive workers right now if only no one had tried to connect them with rehab programs, dammit!

I truly wonder what it is like inside conservative brains, sometimes. The logic that leads people to imagine that refusing to solve a problem will result in never having had the problem at all must be fascinating to personally experience.

Jarhyn

Wizard
San Francisco is a shithole;

A new 'linkage center' aimed at connecting homeless street addicts with drug rehab facilities opened in San Francisco last week - but distressing images show an open air illicit drug consumption site that is now littered with needles and crowded with addicts shooting up in broad daylight. Images taken by DailyMail.com show a woman slumped over in a wheelchair, her pants down around her ankles, preparing to inject a needle into her thigh. The woman sitting on the ground next to her has a needle to her neck. Many others are sitting on the ground among trash, empty food containers and dirty blankets, as they fumble in with drug paraphernalia in the cold weather.

Daily Mail
The linkage center has drug users outside of it? How shocking.

If only they hadn't built that linkage center, drug use would never have originated. Those people would be drug-free, productive workers right now if only no one had tried to connect them with rehab programs, dammit!

I truly wonder what it is like inside conservative brains, sometimes. The logic that leads people to imagine that refusing to solve a problem will result in never having had the problem at all must be fascinating to personally experience.
"NOT IN MY BACKYARD!!!!!11111" on loop.

More seriously, though, when I was trapped inside the conservosphere, it's just never framed that way. they see the problem, they see the thing they don't like, and they try to find some silver bullet to solve the problem.

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
The linkage center has drug users outside of it? How shocking.

If only they hadn't built that linkage center, drug use would never have originated. Those people would be drug-free, productive workers right now if only no one had tried to connect them with rehab programs, dammit!

I truly wonder what it is like inside conservative brains, sometimes. The logic that leads people to imagine that refusing to solve a problem will result in never having had the problem at all must be fascinating to personally experience.

I'm not seeing that this is providing a solution to the problem. It looks like it might just be creating new and interesting problems on top of the existing problems.

But hey, never miss an opportunity to demean a "conservative" hey? That's really what it's all about. Fuck that whole desire for a clean and safe environment in which to live, who cares if it goes to shit as long as you can insult some "conservative" and feel like you're better than them, right?

bilby

Fair dinkum thinkum
The linkage center has drug users outside of it? How shocking.

If only they hadn't built that linkage center, drug use would never have originated. Those people would be drug-free, productive workers right now if only no one had tried to connect them with rehab programs, dammit!

I truly wonder what it is like inside conservative brains, sometimes. The logic that leads people to imagine that refusing to solve a problem will result in never having had the problem at all must be fascinating to personally experience.

I'm not seeing that this is providing a solution to the problem. It looks like it might just be creating new and interesting problems on top of the existing problems.

But hey, never miss an opportunity to demean a "conservative" hey? That's really what it's all about. Fuck that whole desire for a clean and safe environment in which to live, who cares if it goes to shit as long as you can insult some "conservative" and feel like you're better than them, right?
Anyone who isn't a conservative probably IS better than them, because conservatism is a cognitive error. It can be summarised as "Things are pretty good, and were even better in the past, therefore any change must be resisted unless it constitutes a reversion to past norms".

Worse, political conservatives typically add to the fundamental error by believing other things that are not true. With regards to law and order, this can typically be summarised by the twin falsehoods "Making something illegal will prevent it from occurring", and "If making something illegal fails to prevent it from occurring, that's because the laws are insufficiently cruel".

If you don't want people to act as though they are superior to you, you need to stop making yourself their inferior by the adoption of these three falsehoods as your primary political position. And if you don't subscribe to these falsehoods, you need to stop incorrectly calling yourself a conservative.

Conservatism is the political wing of nostalgia. It's just wilful stupidity, and the belief amongst conservatives that being called on their inferiority of thought is in itself the problem is a neat illustration of that inferiority. You're no less wrong if you somehow manage to browbeat your opponents into not telling you that you are wrong, by claiming that their observation is 'insulting'.

TSwizzle

Let's Go Brandon!
The slide continues;

Michael Rapaport filmed the moment a brazen thief sauntered out of a Rite Aid in the Upper East side of New York City with two shopping bags full of stolen goods, calling it 'pathetic' that brazen crime continues to spiral in the Big Apple because of soft-on-crime policies. The actor and comedian, who posted footage of the incident on Instagram, told DailyMail.com that he was ‘disgusted’ and ‘surprised’ when he saw the thief stocking up on items from three different sections of the pharmacy before deciding he was satisfied. 'These criminals know there are no ramifications. We have to put more of these mfers in jail,' he said. The Rite Aid in the video, on 81st Street and 1st Avenue, is hit with thefts of the same nature on an almost daily basis, a security guard told Rapaport.
Daily Mail

I do hope the shoplifter was vaccinated.

thebeave

Veteran Member
BEFORE RECENT WAVE OF TRAIN CARGO THEFTS, UNION PACIFIC LAID OFF UNSPECIFIED NUMBER OF ITS RAILROAD POLICE FORCE

Daily Mail

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Brutal attack on a woman by "homeless" male in Seattle;

A homeless man with a 16-year violent criminal history has been charged with first-degree assault after he was caught on surveillance footage taking a 'full body swing' with a baseball bat and hitting a woman in the back of the head, leaving her bleeding with a fractured skull. Wantez Tulloss, 31, has been arrested 11 times going back to 2012 and was wanted by police in Washington for third degree theft. On Monday January 31, he was filmed taking a swing at Emma Shengnan Wang, who was named by prosecutors in court documents. He knocked Wang to the ground, hitting her on her skull and back, then fled, taking his bags with him.

Daily Mail

The video of the assault is sickening.
He has been charged, and both should and will absolutely go to jail for his crime. Is someone saying otherwise?

You note that he has been arrested eleven times, with the most serious charge being petty theft, so it's also pretty hard to make the case that the police have been ignoring previous crimes. Clearly they have been nailing him for every infraction up until now. What is it you're saying should have been done for/to this man to prevent this crime? Life in prison for stealing a few hundred dollars of goods, "just in case"?

As always, Republicans have no workable solution to any social problem, they just clutch their pearls at the state of things and vaguely claim that they could do better, even if they can't explain exactly how. No one is buying it.

I would be very surprised if they got him for every offense he committed, but it sounds like this is a major escalation of what was previously minor crime. Barring additional evidence I don't see that the system did badly on this.

Trausti

Deleted
LOL

”But at the same time, you cannot have a culture where people are just, at random, robbing and stealing.”

Welcome to common sense, Al!

Derec

Contributor
Los Angeles assistant DA rips George Gascon for 'failing' kids by not prosecuting DUIs as new recall underway

Fox News said:
Jonathan Hatami, a deputy district attorney for Los Angeles County, said in doing so, Gascon has "failed" juveniles, who could get the message that there are no consequences for their actions, will never reach court-ordered alcohol programs and could then get behind the wheel again to kill themselves or others.
"You're basically telling a 16- or 17-year-old if you drink and drive, you're just not going to get in trouble," Hatami said in a recent on-camera interview with KCBS-TV. "George Gascon says he wants to protect kids and he cares about kids. Well, if George Gascon really wants to protect kids, if he really wants to do that then sometimes what you have to do is protect kids from themselves. And as a parent, I know that and all parents know that. And George Gascon has essentially failed in this."

I know Fox News is hated here, but the original CBS station that ran the interview with the deputy DA

In any case, DUIs are serious and dangerous offenses and it is fucked up Garcon is refusing to prosecute teenagers for drinking and driving. Drunk driving is especially dangerous for teens when their impulse control is underdeveloped anyway and they also tend to have less driving experience than their older peers.

Bu that's not all.
Gascon has been widely criticized for his controversial juvenile diversion program launched in December. In a memo to staff, he directed prosecutors not to pursue charges against minors for a wide range of offenses, including sexual battery, burglary, vehicle theft, assaults or robberies, barring they did not result in serious injury or were committed while in commission of a firearm, The Times reported.
Those are some rather serious offenses that you can get away with if you are a minor. I mean sexual battery and other assaults? Burglary and robbery? Grand theft auto? Those need to be prosecuted regardless of the age of the offender. 15 and 16 year olds should not be getting away with all that.

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
The problem here isn't a lack of authoritarianism (sorry, it's called "rule of law" when it happens to people who you want to dehumanise); It's a lack of compassion, which you are demonstrating far more effectively than is acceptable for a person with pretentions to being civilised.
Is that a lack of compassion for the violent attacker or for the victim of his assault?

Trausti

Deleted
The problem here isn't a lack of authoritarianism (sorry, it's called "rule of law" when it happens to people who you want to dehumanise); It's a lack of compassion, which you are demonstrating far more effectively than is acceptable for a person with pretentions to being civilised.
Is that a lack of compassion for the violent attacker or for the victim of his assault?

This does seem to be the policy difference. What’s best for the criminals vs. what’s best for the victim / public safety.

Copernicus

The problem here isn't a lack of authoritarianism (sorry, it's called "rule of law" when it happens to people who you want to dehumanise); It's a lack of compassion, which you are demonstrating far more effectively than is acceptable for a person with pretentions to being civilised.
Is that a lack of compassion for the violent attacker or for the victim of his assault?

This does seem to be the policy difference. What’s best for the criminals vs. what’s best for the victim / public safety.
No, you are thinking of when they stopped using torture as a method of punishment. It is a policy difference about how to deal with homeless and mentally disturbed people who commit violent crimes. If all we do is lock them up after they commit such crimes, then we aren't doing anything to solve the problem. There is a never-ending supply of mentally disturbed people, some of whom are inevitably going to commit violent crimes (although most do not). Bilby was just commenting to TSwizzle (not Emily) about a case of a homeless man who committed a crime (and not just the one of being homeless).

lpetrich

Contributor
I'm not impressed by right-wingers bragging about how compassionate they are. Because they show contempt and hostility and sneer at anything other than that.

They often talk about "personal responsibility", meaning that everything bad that one suffers is one's fault. They also say that one should not call oneself a victim. They sometimes acknowledge that some things are not one's fault, but they believe that one should meekly and quietly suffer them, because "life isn't fair", something that they pride themselves on believing.

Let's see what this says about crime. It means that crime victims are really crime enablers, and that they should take responsibility for enabling the crimes they suffer and not call themselves victims. But if there are crimes that are not our fault, we should meekly and quietly accept that those crimes are part of the unfairness of life.

About military and police forces, a right-wing argument against them is that they enable laziness in self-protection, and that they are financed by governments stealing from self-protectors to finance the protection of those who are too lazy to protect themselves.

lpetrich

Contributor
Despite some right-wingers' screeching about compassion for crime victims, I notice a lack of interest in restitution and Restorative Justice
Restorative justice repairs the harms caused by crime. When victims, offenders and community members meet to decide how to do that, the results can be transformational.

It emphasizes accountability, making amends, and — if they are interested — facilitated meetings between victims, offenders, and other persons.

This is the sort of thing that makes me suspect that their real feelings about crime victims are very different.

I've long thought that many right-wingers consider crime a kind of rebellion, to be ruthlessly suppressed.