Bush raised red flags in April 2001. Dems said NO

[braces_for_impact]

I don't hate Bush so much as hold him in contempt.

 

[untermensche]

I'm not sure what you're saying.

But the crisis was basically two-fold.

A bunch of bad, "liars", mortgages were issued. These mortgages were bundled with other investments that were given a high rating by ratings agencies.

At the same time these credit default swaps were being sold which were really just insurance policies.

The problem was there were a huge amount of insurance policies on bad mortgages.

When people began defaulting on mortgages the people who sold these insurance policies were not able to pay because so many went bad at nearly the same time. The bad, "poisoned" investments were carefully spread around to try to hide them.

I'm not sure how interest rates fits into the story but you may be right it may fit somewhere.

You can only fake a mortgage so much. If interest rates were higher, it would haven't been feasible give mortgages to those who couldn't close to affording them.

But that would hurt legitimate buyers.

You want the banks to give as many mortgages as possible, but you also want them to use good sense and check information on applications and not lend to people who will not likely be able to meet the payment schedule.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't hate Bush so much as hold him in contempt.

He was in over his head and had to of known it. His Administration told America to watch what they say, began spying on Americans at an unprecedented level (at the time), lied to the nation to go to war with Hussein, accused people criticizing the Occupation effort as whining, and help sink the US into a lot of debt (not related to a massive recession), alienated the US from the world... twice! The list of positive things he and his Admin did is short (AIDS relief funding in Africa and TARP).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Bush-haters have attempted to lay all the blame on the financial meltdown on George Bush.

Here are the remarks of Democrats pushing to continue making loans to unqualified borrowers.

Barney Frank, Chuck Schumer, Maxine Waters, and others

"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not in a crisis." - Barney Frank [Democrat]

"The more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the treasury, WHICH I DO NOT SEE..."
We see entities which are fundamentally sound..." - Barney Frank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

"We do not have a crisis at Freddy Mac and in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mister Frank Raines ..." - Maxine Waters [Democrat]



[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPoksfSf2nA
[/URL]

There was a problem then but nothing like a crisis.

 

[Starman]

There was a problem then but nothing like a crisis.

You and all the rest of the Bush-haters are spinning, as usual. Bush and his advisers foresaw what was coming. It was initiated by Democrats who demanded that lenders make loans to "people of color" even and particularly when they were not qualified. That black families did not qualify for loans at the same rate as white and Asian families is of course always taken by Leftists as proof positive of "discrimination." When analyzed objectively, with no eye as to color of borrower, it was always clear that there was no discrimination on the basis of skin color. Families qualified for loans on the basis of credit history and income.

Not good enough, said Barney Frank, and Maxine "That's just 360 degrees wrong" Waters, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama. It was because of their lying and meddling that the crash was not avoided. Barney Frank was finally too embarrassed to run for reelection after his latest fiasco.

The Democrat Party has nothing to contribute any longer except more divisiveness and misery. It has moved so far to the left that the downfall of America is almost assured.

 

[Bronzeage]

There was a problem then but nothing like a crisis.

You and all the rest of the Bush-haters are spinning, as usual. Bush and his advisers foresaw what was coming. It was initiated by Democrats who demanded that lenders make loans to "people of color" even and particularly when they were not qualified. That black families did not qualify for loans at the same rate as white and Asian families is of course always taken by Leftists as proof positive of "discrimination." When analyzed objectively, with no eye as to color of borrower, it was always clear that there was no discrimination on the basis of skin color. Families qualified for loans on the basis of credit history and income.

Not good enough, said Barney Frank, and Maxine "That's just 360 degrees wrong" Waters, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama. It was because of their lying and meddling that the crash was not avoided. Barney Frank was finally too embarrassed to run for reelection after his latest fiasco.

The Democrat Party has nothing to contribute any longer except more divisiveness and misery. It has moved so far to the left that the downfall of America is almost assured.

[NFIG

Do you have any links to speeches by President Bush that indicated he knew a stock market crash was imminent? Why didn't he do something?

 

[fromderinside]

You and all the rest of the Bush-haters are spinning, as usual. Bush and his advisers foresaw what was coming. It was initiated by Democrats who demanded that lenders make loans to "people of color" even and particularly when they were not qualified. That black families did not qualify for loans at the same rate as white and Asian families is of course always taken by Leftists as proof positive of "discrimination." When analyzed objectively, with no eye as to color of borrower, it was always clear that there was no discrimination on the basis of skin color. Families qualified for loans on the basis of credit history and income.

Not good enough, said Barney Frank, and Maxine "That's just 360 degrees wrong" Waters, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama. It was because of their lying and meddling that the crash was not avoided. Barney Frank was finally too embarrassed to run for reelection after his latest fiasco.

The Democrat Party has nothing to contribute any longer except more divisiveness and misery. It has moved so far to the left that the downfall of America is almost assured.

I'm calling bullshit on Starman.

Bush drive for home ownership fueled housing bubble http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/b...iht-admin.4.18853088.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"We can put light where there's darkness, and hope where there's despondency in this country. And part of it is working together as a nation to encourage folks to own their own home."
- President George W. Bush, Oct. 15, 2002

 

[Ford]

Do you have any links to speeches by President Bush that indicated he knew a stock market crash was imminent? Why didn't he do something?

What could he have done? He only had control of all three branches of the federal government until 2007!

 

[Bronzeage]

Do you have any links to speeches by President Bush that indicated he knew a stock market crash was imminent? Why didn't he do something?

What could he have done? He only had control of all three branches of the federal government until 2007!

The real question is what does anyone hope to accomplish with all these revisionist history threads?

 

[Keith&Co.]

What could he have done? He only had control of all three branches of the federal government until 2007!

The real question is what does anyone hope to accomplish with all these revisionist history threads?

Starman has said that facts are like kryptonite to liberals. Maybe lies are conservatives' crack?

 

[Ford]

What could he have done? He only had control of all three branches of the federal government until 2007!

The real question is what does anyone hope to accomplish with all these revisionist history threads?

I have no idea. Here's a completely unrelated photo I found on the internet. I believe it is some sort of child's toy or doll.

 

[Archimedes]

The Norman Thomas quote appears to be unsubstantiated bullshit. It immediately struck me as the kind of made-up quote that gets passed around the Internet and swallowed uncritically by people who like the sound of it (just look at the horseshit attributed to Einstein, Gandhi, MLK, etc. that people post online as words of wisdom that they never said)

So I checked Google and according to Snopes, apparently no-one has every been able to verify he ever actually said it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/socialism.asp

Although these words have been attributed to him for several decades, apparently no one has ever been able to turn up a source documenting that he actually said or wrote them, whether it was in 1944 (as claimed in the above-quoted example) or in 1927 (as Ronald Reagan asserted) or at any other time.

 

[KeepTalking]

So, no red flags from Bush, but at least one statement that seems to indicate the exact opposite of a red flag, and bullshit quotes from a socialist who died 50 years ago? Pretty much sums up this thread, but let's go to an unbiased source to see what they think about Starman's thread. Take it away Oolong:

 

[funinspace]

There was a problem then but nothing like a crisis.

You and all the rest of the Bush-haters are spinning, as usual.

You are kind of funny, in a weird sort of way. Loren is generally libertarian in his views, but for being in the neocon militarism camp. Myself, I’m generally a moderate libertarian, but I differ on the gun rights issue and environmental issues.

Bush and his advisers foresaw what was coming.

Could you at least try to back this up with something as nothing jumps to my mind?

It was initiated by Democrats who demanded that lenders make loans to "people of color" even and particularly when they were not qualified. That black families did not qualify for loans at the same rate as white and Asian families is of course always taken by Leftists as proof positive of "discrimination." When analyzed objectively, with no eye as to color of borrower, it was always clear that there was no discrimination on the basis of skin color. Families qualified for loans on the basis of credit history and income.

Not good enough, said Barney Frank, and Maxine "That's just 360 degrees wrong" Waters, Chuck Schumer, and Barack Obama. It was because of their lying and meddling that the crash was not avoided. Barney Frank was finally too embarrassed to run for reelection after his latest fiasco.

Funny how many McMansions in the neighborhood right next to me became bank owned during the crisis. It was one of the worst areas that I could see, and their going prices at the time were $700k to about $2M. I don’t think those houses had many loans at Freddie and Fannie….

Either way, to blame this whole mess on excessive lending to low income people is hilariously obtuse. Jimmy Higgin’s comments were pretty close to my own thoughts. From an out of control derivatives/MBS market that had been rapidly expanding for almost 2 decades; to all sorts of newfangled and dumb loan terms; to allowing the TBTF bank monstrosities to form; to people treating their home as an ATM machine; to Greenspan preaching the good hand of the private market arguing against new regulations on derivatives/MBS; to greedy people buying expensive homes as investments; to greedy banks pushing the envelope to get more transactions; to raising the debt ratios for banks; and yes to even pushing loans to people that couldn’t afford it due to liberal pressure.

The ironic part is that Pres. Obama’s administration has done a great job running a protection racket for the Banksters. Not that many would notice due to all the silence from the Repugs and most of the mass media. All one has to do is look at the criminal prosecution of financial crime after the S&L crisis compared to the last 6 years of nothing. The only thing sicker than Obama’s lack of doing anything is the very silent support of his administration from the opposition party…aka the Repugs.

The Democrat Party has nothing to contribute any longer except more divisiveness and misery. It has moved so far to the left that the downfall of America is almost assured.

And the right/tea partiers have moved so far right that I would puke before voting for much of any of their representatives. Never mind that half the tea party is chock full of nuts.

 

[untermensche]

...It was initiated by Democrats who demanded that lenders make loans to "people of color" even and particularly when they were not qualified....

This is fantasy, pulled from thin air.

Nobody was asked to make bad loans. Bankers were asked to try to innovate and reach out to minorities.

Not checking information on loan applications was an idea bankers came up with. It was a pathetically easy scheme. Make as many loans as possible, knowing full well many will be bad since you haven't verified anything, then bundle these poisoned loans and sell the bundle to some sucker unaware of the bad loans contained within.

It took no brains. It took no creativity. All it took was incredible and widespread greed and deceit.

And as home prices rose with no rationality Bush fiddled and read some more about goats.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is incredible how people can't recall history that was only 10 years ago! For goodness sake, the "Ownership Society" was a major plank for his '04 election bid.

I'm calling bullshit on Starman.

Bush drive for home ownership fueled housing bubble http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/b...iht-admin.4.18853088.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"We can put light where there's darkness, and hope where there's despondency in this country. And part of it is working together as a nation to encourage folks to own their own home."
- President George W. Bush, Oct. 15, 2002

I'll do you better than that... much better. Snapshot of White House Website around '04.

Increasing Homeownership

• The US homeownership rate reached a record 69.2 percent in the second quarter of 2004. The number of homeowners in the United States reached 73.4 million, the most ever. And for the first time, the majority of minority Americans own their own homes.
• The President set a goal to increase the number of minority homeowners by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade. Through his homeownership challenge, the President called on the private sector to help in this effort. More than two dozen companies and organizations have made commitments to increase minority homeownership - including pledges to provide more than $1.1 trillion in mortgage purchases for minority homebuyers this decade.
• President Bush signed the $200 million-per-year American Dream Downpayment Act which will help approximately 40,000 families each year with their downpayment and closing costs.
• The Administration proposed the Zero-Downpayment Initiative to allow the Federal Housing Administration to insure mortgages for first-time homebuyers without a downpayment. Projections indicate this could generate over 150,000 new homeowners in the first year alone.
• President Bush proposed a new Single Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit to increase the supply of affordable homes.
• The President has proposed to more than double funding for the Self-Help Homeownership Opportunity Program (SHOP), where government and non-profit organizations work closely together to increase homeownership opportunities.
• The President proposed $2.7 billion in USDA home loan guarantees to support rural homeownership and $1.1 billion in direct loans for low-income borrowers unable to secure a mortgage through a conventional lender. These loans are expected to provide 42,800 homeownership opportunities to rural families across America.

Seriously, how full of it can some people be? Now, like I said before, the '08 crash doesn't lay at W's feet, but the idea that they saw it coming and tried to stop it is so unbelievably untrue, that it is laughable that some people would even go there. Granted, when you must falsely attribute quotes to Norman Thomas to make your point, clearly you don't have a case to stand on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Either way, to blame this whole mess on excessive lending to low income people is hilariously obtuse. Jimmy Higgin’s comments were pretty close to my own thoughts. From an out of control derivatives/MBS market that had been rapidly expanding for almost 2 decades; to all sorts of newfangled and dumb loan terms; to allowing the TBTF bank monstrosities to form; to people treating their home as an ATM machine; to Greenspan preaching the good hand of the private market arguing against new regulations on derivatives/MBS; to greedy people buying expensive homes as investments; to greedy banks pushing the envelope to get more transactions; to raising the debt ratios for banks; and yes to even pushing loans to people that couldn’t afford it due to liberal pressure.

Excessive lending to low-income people started the mess but it wasn't the primary component of the mess.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

...It was initiated by Democrats who demanded that lenders make loans to "people of color" even and particularly when they were not qualified....

This is fantasy, pulled from thin air.

Nobody was asked to make bad loans. Bankers were asked to try to innovate and reach out to minorities.

Not checking information on loan applications was an idea bankers came up with. It was a pathetically easy scheme. Make as many loans as possible, knowing full well many will be bad since you haven't verified anything, then bundle these poisoned loans and sell the bundle to some sucker unaware of the bad loans contained within.

It took no brains. It took no creativity. All it took was incredible and widespread greed and deceit.

And as home prices rose with no rationality Bush fiddled and read some more about goats.

No, he's right about this.

Nobody was asked to make bad loans but they were given conflicting demands: make prudent loans and make enough loans to the community. The latter is far easier to measure, thus when the requirements conflict it's the one that's going to be followed.

Where he goes wrong is in ascribing the collapse to this. It was only the spark, not the inferno. The inferno was caused by those lax standards becoming widespread and a whole bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon, intending to flip properties.

 

[untermensche]

This is fantasy, pulled from thin air.

Nobody was asked to make bad loans. Bankers were asked to try to innovate and reach out to minorities.

Not checking information on loan applications was an idea bankers came up with. It was a pathetically easy scheme. Make as many loans as possible, knowing full well many will be bad since you haven't verified anything, then bundle these poisoned loans and sell the bundle to some sucker unaware of the bad loans contained within.

It took no brains. It took no creativity. All it took was incredible and widespread greed and deceit.

And as home prices rose with no rationality Bush fiddled and read some more about goats.

No, he's right about this.

Nobody was asked to make bad loans but they were given conflicting demands: make prudent loans and make enough loans to the community. The latter is far easier to measure, thus when the requirements conflict it's the one that's going to be followed.

Where he goes wrong is in ascribing the collapse to this. It was only the spark, not the inferno. The inferno was caused by those lax standards becoming widespread and a whole bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon, intending to flip properties.

Show me the evidence that anybody was instructed to make no check loans. Instructed by Barney Frank or any other Democrat. Evidence.

You are pulling this from your backside.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is fantasy, pulled from thin air.

Nobody was asked to make bad loans. Bankers were asked to try to innovate and reach out to minorities.

Not checking information on loan applications was an idea bankers came up with. It was a pathetically easy scheme. Make as many loans as possible, knowing full well many will be bad since you haven't verified anything, then bundle these poisoned loans and sell the bundle to some sucker unaware of the bad loans contained within.

It took no brains. It took no creativity. All it took was incredible and widespread greed and deceit.

And as home prices rose with no rationality Bush fiddled and read some more about goats.

No, he's right about this.

Nobody was asked to make bad loans but they were given conflicting demands: make prudent loans and make enough loans to the community. The latter is far easier to measure, thus when the requirements conflict it's the one that's going to be followed.

Where he goes wrong is in ascribing the collapse to this. It was only the spark, not the inferno. The inferno was caused by those lax standards becoming widespread and a whole bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon, intending to flip properties.

I know I'm going to regret that, but Starman says it was loans to minorities that did it. You pretty much agree with the assessment.

So could you please, I know you won't as you never do, give a demographic showing household income distribution of homes lost in the recession. There is this odd thing you are denoting that seems to imply the middle class wasn't reaching beyond its means.