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- Thread starter Derec
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laughing dog
Contributor
Claptrap squared. There is much more bigoted and racially motivated criticism of Islam at TFT than Christianity on TFT (at least in my opinion), and that is what drives any perceived difference in attitudes.
I doubt anybody here does.
Family that runs the store up the street "gets a pass" from me because they aren't doing the stuff you list in your initial statement.
They probably came here to get away from that shit. Or are all the ones living here peacefully just a big double secret sleeper cell?
Or should we treat them all the same, including those that have lived here for a few generations and that quietly go about their commerce and leave me the hell alone unlike Christianists like Mike Pence.
Maybe we should view all Christians as being in league with the "freedom" lovers that stormed Charlottesville last year chanting Blood and Soil.
Jokodo
Veteran Member
You never heard of rakı? You're missing out bigtime.
Well ya, but only in the same way that most people are more afraid of public speaking than they are of death. It's because public speaking is something which affects them and they have to deal with while they're not worried about dying any time soon. That kind of result doesn't lead to the conclusion that people think that public speaking is worse than death.
Posters here live in the West, for the most part, so Islam doesn't affect their lives in any real way while Christianity does. The intolerance of Christianity is personal towards them because they grew up in repressive Christian environments or Christians are actively working to limit their rights and freedoms. Islam is also dumb and repressive, but not in a way that personally affects them so it's more of a generic being against it with no real emotion attached.
WAB
Contributor
I've criticized extremism in both religions and race has nothing whatsoever to do with whatever I might say with regard to either one.
WAB
Contributor
Well, of course. That's pretty much what I've been saying in so many threads where Christians get lumped into the same basket and criticized as if they are all the same. If you go back and read my posts in this thread you will see that NOWHERE do I claim that ALL the people at that rally were the same, or were doing wrong; in fact, I went out of my way to stress that I do not judge people as groups, but as individuals. I have never ever said, "group X all does this and they are all bad" or any such nonsense, in my 14 years here.
I wonder how many times I will have to repeat the same thing, and rewrite the same sentences, in this thread?
Derec
Contributor
I had rakija, is it at all related? In any case Muslims do not drink that if they are practicing.
Derec
Contributor
Yeah, Islam has no effect on anything whatsoever in the West ...
You do not think Islam is not actively working to limit people's rights and freedoms?
And besides, could you imagine your prime minister giving a Christian terrorist ten million dollars?
laughing dog
Contributor
You don't know very many Muslims. There are gradations of Muslims, just like there are gradations of Catholics, Christians, etc.....
Of course it is, but not the rights and freedoms of anyone directly affecting me or most people in Western society, which was the point. You also needed to directly edit out that point when you quoted my post in order to pretend that I didn't make it or something, so good job with that.
Also, yes. If the Canadian government directly supported a hostile foreign power in abusing the rights of a Canadian Christian terrorist instead of standing up and fighting for him to be treated in accordance with the laws and freedoms which applied to him then I'd expect my Prime Minister to offer him compensation for the government's failure to do it's job. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn't only apply to citizens we like and support, but to all of us.
Jimmy Higgins
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I'd love to see that explained.
We aren't pissing our pants over Halal food standards, much like we don't piss ourselves over Kosher, or Ramadan like we don't Lent?
There is "more" criticism of Christianity in the US because of the attempts of Dominionizing the nation through the Government (see Wendy Davis... or the upcoming Roe v Wade reversal). Islam doesn't have that level of control in the US, and repeated attempts to show how Islam is endangering the US is just incredibly dumb as Muslims lack any force of authority in the US. If they ever become more than a minority (impossible seeing that a good deal of population growth is among Christians from South of the Border), there will be push back. Oddly enough, the issues we are told we'd see with Islam are pretty much in line with what we are seeing from the Christian Dominionists already (lack of rights for minorities, lack of tolerance).
WAB
Contributor
I gave a short answer, in a thread started by Underseer called, "Why do you only criticize MY religion" :
I agree with you that Islam is not as great a threat to the U.S. as Christianity. Whether that's true in other parts of the West I am not so sure.
There have always been very vocal and extremist Christian movements, some with more power than others. There was at one time in very recent history a small but whacko Christian mob called the Reconstructionists, who seemed to be gaining steam but then fizzled out to the point where I think now they have one tiny little chapter somewhere. This group, at least some of their original leaders, pushed for the reinstallment of Mosaic Law, and advocated stonings.
The Dominionists, or Dominionism, seem to have a link to the reconstructionists, and from what I can see the intention is similar. It would be interesting to see if any proponents of this new wave actually advocate a return to Mosaic Law and public executions for minor infractions. Even if not, I agree with you that there is cause enough already for concern and for strong resistance. I have never argued that any radical and potentially dangerous religious ideology should be free from censure, only that there should be levels of criticism proportional to the threat and actual harm caused worldwide.
Back to the rest of the world. You're right, Muslims lack any force of authority in the US. But they certainly have a great force of authority in numerous nations where people are and have been oppressed and where some unfortunate individuals are having their heads cut off and women are being stoned to death. And it's also true that extremist Christian groups have been doing horrendous things in Uganda and other countries, so we should heap censure on them as well, as Underseer has been doing.
My interests and concerns are as a human being, for all human beings, wherever they are. The fact that I was born in the US is of absolutely no interest to me, and I'm indifferent to being an American. I don't hate my country, not at all - but I see no reason to think that I should be more worried about Americans than any other people in the world simply because of an accident of birth.
arkirk
Veteran Member
Islam is not one thing, any more than "Americanism" is one thing. Derec just doesn't get that in all cultures there is about the same mix of attitudes, and personal ideas as to what is acceptable human behavior. There are gay Muslims and condom using Catholics and even a few hypocritical atheists that attend church as a "social activity." Derec is living in a world of polarization and he has no concept of the actual gray mix that is reality. In repressive societies like modern day Persia or Palestine there is no universal set of beliefs that rule the actual private lives of the people, though the authorities would have it that way. Iranians (even the Muslim ones) generally like Americans. Wake up Derec and smell the confusion the demagogues have wrought! Don't be their victim.