Chile's govt in shock loss as voters pick independents to draft constitution

[ZiprHead]

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/chile-ruling-coalition-heading-disappointment-constitutional-delegates-vote-2021-05-17/

Chile's center-right ruling coalition suffered a shock loss on Sunday night after failing to secure a critical one-third of seats in the body that will draft the country's new constitution.

With 90% of the votes counted, candidates backed by President Sebastian Pinera's centre-right Chile Vamos coalition had won only a fifth while independents picked up the most votes. New proposals will require two-thirds approval and without a third of the delegates, the government will struggle to block radical changes to the constitution unless it can forge new alliances.

The result and defeats for Chile Vamos candidates in mayoral, governatorial and municipal elections held at the same time bode ill for the ruling coalition ahead of general and presidential elections in November.

The vote to pick 155 citizens to rewrite the constitution was borne from fierce protests that erupted over inequality and elitism in October 2019. The current constitution drafted during the 1973-1990 dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet is widely perceived to favor big business over the rights of ordinary citizens.

 

[Tigers!]

The independents are unlikely to do worse that politicians.

 

[Rhea]

Wow - that’s a really big deal, an effort to write the constitution from scratch. Worth watching.

 

[Elixir]

Wow - that’s a really big deal, an effort to write the constitution from scratch. Worth watching.

Any other year I'd probably be more enthusiastic about re-writing Constitutions...

 

[untermensche]

unless it can forge new alliances

A Constitution is not a small matter.

"Forging" can include many things when large matters are involved.

 

[Gospel]

Suddenly all the wiki pages on constitutions get hacked by 56 Argentinians.

 

[lpetrich]

Could Chile show the United States how to rebuild its democracy? | Tony Karon | The Guardian - 2021 Dec 23
"The US once helped destroy Chilean democracy. Now, a constitutional reform movement in Chile could teach the US how to fix its own"

Chile always gave the lie to the cold war claim that the United States stood for democracy. When its voters in 1970 showed the temerity (“irresponsibility”, Henry Kissinger called it) to elect socialist Salvador Allende as president, Washington helped orchestrate the coup that toppled him, and backed the resulting dictatorship.

It seems those “irresponsible” Chilean voters are at it again – on Sunday, they elected leftist Gabriel Boric as president by a 12-point margin, on the back of a campaign for a new constitution. But if Chilean democracy seems on the road to recovery from its Washington-backed disfiguration, prospects for democracy in the United States look rather bleak.

Then the problems that the US faces, like unbalanced sizes of states and the Senate and the Electoral College, and the difficulty of amending the US Constitution.

Boric is a product of a student rebellion a decade ago that fed into a broader social justice movement focused on issues ranging from austerity, a failing social safety net, healthcare and economic inequality to gender violence and Indigenous rights. While even center-left governments were stymied from delivering on voter expectations, many in this parliament of the streets recognized that their grievances were products of the democracy deficit built into the dictatorship’s 1980 constitution to ensure continuity of its economic model.

Although it allowed Chileans to elect their president and lower house of parliament, that constitution built in minority vetoes, such as appointing one-third of senators and much of the judiciary, as failsafe mechanisms to prevent democratically elected politicians from enacting the systemic changes demanded by voters. Thus the emergence of a democracy movement based outside formal political parties, which in late 2019 won a referendum to have a new constitution democratically drafted. That movement’s energy also propelled Boric to power.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Could Chile show the United States how to rebuild its democracy? | Tony Karon | The Guardian - 2021 Dec 23
"The US once helped destroy Chilean democracy. Now, a constitutional reform movement in Chile could teach the US how to fix its own"

Chile always gave the lie to the cold war claim that the United States stood for democracy. When its voters in 1970 showed the temerity (“irresponsibility”, Henry Kissinger called it) to elect socialist Salvador Allende as president, Washington helped orchestrate the coup that toppled him, and backed the resulting dictatorship.

It seems those “irresponsible” Chilean voters are at it again – on Sunday, they elected leftist Gabriel Boric as president by a 12-point margin, on the back of a campaign for a new constitution. But if Chilean democracy seems on the road to recovery from its Washington-backed disfiguration, prospects for democracy in the United States look rather bleak.

Then the problems that the US faces, like unbalanced sizes of states and the Senate and the Electoral College, and the difficulty of amending the US Constitution.

Boric is a product of a student rebellion a decade ago that fed into a broader social justice movement focused on issues ranging from austerity, a failing social safety net, healthcare and economic inequality to gender violence and Indigenous rights. While even center-left governments were stymied from delivering on voter expectations, many in this parliament of the streets recognized that their grievances were products of the democracy deficit built into the dictatorship’s 1980 constitution to ensure continuity of its economic model.

Although it allowed Chileans to elect their president and lower house of parliament, that constitution built in minority vetoes, such as appointing one-third of senators and much of the judiciary, as failsafe mechanisms to prevent democratically elected politicians from enacting the systemic changes demanded by voters. Thus the emergence of a democracy movement based outside formal political parties, which in late 2019 won a referendum to have a new constitution democratically drafted. That movement’s energy also propelled Boric to power.

Actually, the undemocratic "failsafe" mechanisms had already been removed in previous constitutional amendments, which were made in accordance to the constitution. For example, the senate is elected democratically (see e.g. https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Chile_2015.pdf?lang=en ).

This new constitution is going to be made in violation of amendment rules, which damages Chile's reputation and institutional instability. That was a big mistake, regardless of the merits of the new constitution (on that note, I hope I'm wrong, but I expect the new constitution to be pretty bad due to left-wing ideology built into it; that is another matter, though). That was not necessary. They could have amended the constitution without violating it. They could have even done it by referendum - just by previously amended the procedure for constitutional amendments. Now it's a mess.

 

[lpetrich]

Chile Writes Its Constitution, Confronting Climate Change Head On - The New York Times

Rarely does a country get a chance to lay out its ideals as a nation and write a new constitution for itself. Almost never does the climate and ecological crisis play a central role.

That is, until now, in Chile, where a national reinvention is underway. After months of protests over social and environmental grievances, 155 Chileans have been elected to write a new constitution amid what they have declared a “climate and ecological emergency.”

,,,
Mining companies in Chile, the world’s second-largest lithium producer after Australia, are keen to increase production, as are politicians who see mining as crucial to national prosperity. They face mounting opposition, though, from Chileans who argue that the country’s very economic model, based on extraction of natural resources, has exacted too high an environmental cost and failed to spread the benefits to all citizens, including its Indigenous people.

And so, it falls to the Constitutional Convention to decide what kind of country Chile wants to be. Convention members will decide many things, including: How should mining be regulated, and what voice should local communities have over mining? Should Chile retain a presidential system? Should nature have rights? How about future generations?

Seems like Chile also suffers from the resource curse -- resource extraction often corrupts a country's politics, like in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Could Chile show the United States how to rebuild its democracy? | Tony Karon | The Guardian - 2021 Dec 23
"The US once helped destroy Chilean democracy. Now, a constitutional reform movement in Chile could teach the US how to fix its own"

Chile always gave the lie to the cold war claim that the United States stood for democracy. When its voters in 1970 showed the temerity (“irresponsibility”, Henry Kissinger called it) to elect socialist Salvador Allende as president, Washington helped orchestrate the coup that toppled him, and backed the resulting dictatorship.

It seems those “irresponsible” Chilean voters are at it again – on Sunday, they elected leftist Gabriel Boric as president by a 12-point margin, on the back of a campaign for a new constitution. But if Chilean democracy seems on the road to recovery from its Washington-backed disfiguration, prospects for democracy in the United States look rather bleak.

Then the problems that the US faces, like unbalanced sizes of states and the Senate and the Electoral College, and the difficulty of amending the US Constitution.

Boric is a product of a student rebellion a decade ago that fed into a broader social justice movement focused on issues ranging from austerity, a failing social safety net, healthcare and economic inequality to gender violence and Indigenous rights. While even center-left governments were stymied from delivering on voter expectations, many in this parliament of the streets recognized that their grievances were products of the democracy deficit built into the dictatorship’s 1980 constitution to ensure continuity of its economic model.

Although it allowed Chileans to elect their president and lower house of parliament, that constitution built in minority vetoes, such as appointing one-third of senators and much of the judiciary, as failsafe mechanisms to prevent democratically elected politicians from enacting the systemic changes demanded by voters. Thus the emergence of a democracy movement based outside formal political parties, which in late 2019 won a referendum to have a new constitution democratically drafted. That movement’s energy also propelled Boric to power.

Actually, the undemocratic "failsafe" mechanisms had already been removed in previous constitutional amendments, which were made in accordance to the constitution. For example, the senate is elected democratically (see e.g. https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Chile_2015.pdf?lang=en ).

This new constitution is going to be made in violation of amendment rules, which damages Chile's reputation and institutional instability. That was a big mistake, regardless of the merits of the new constitution (on that note, I hope I'm wrong, but I expect the new constitution to be pretty bad due to left-wing ideology built into it; that is another matter, though). That was not necessary. They could have amended the constitution without violating it. They could have even done it by referendum - just by previously amended the procedure for constitutional amendments. Now it's a mess.

Left-wing? Yeah, maybe they should re-Pinochet Chile to fix that.

 

[Elixir]

They could write the very best constitution ever, and the right wing will go to the mat to make sure it fails because it was written by lib’ruls. If there’s one thing right wingers know how to do, it’s throwing monkey wrenches.

 

[Derec]

New proposals will require two-thirds approval and without a third of the delegates, the government will struggle to block radical changes to the constitution unless it can forge new alliances.

So the new socialist ruler of Chile (Allende 2.0?) wants to impose "radical changes" to the constitution?
That's not going to end well ...

 

[Derec]

They could write the very best constitution ever, and the right wing will go to the mat to make sure it fails because it was written by lib’ruls socialists. If there’s one thing right wingers know how to do, it’s throwing monkey wrenches.

FIFY

 

[Derec]

Could Chile show the United States how to rebuild its democracy? | Tony Karon | The Guardian - 2021 Dec 23
"The US once helped destroy Chilean democracy. Now, a constitutional reform movement in Chile could teach the US how to fix its own"

More of that bullshit propaganda. Salvador Allende was the one who destroyed the Chilean democracy when he tried to rule by decree bypassing the Congress and the courts in order to implement his radical Marxist policies.

 

[Elixir]

They could write the very best constitution ever, and the right wing will go to the mat to make sure it fails because it was written by lib’ruls socialists. If there’s one thing right wingers know how to do, it’s throwing monkey wrenches.

FIFY

Thanks for your opinion. What we know at this point is that there are a lot of people on your (the conservative) side freaking out, and the constitution has yet to be written let alone ratified.
That socialists are not conservatives doesn't mean their agenda is a slam dunk. There's a 155 member "constitutional convention":

It is a representative collection of Chileans—lawyers, teachers, a housewife, scientists, social workers, vets, writers, journalists, actors and doctors—many of whom had themselves partaken in the protests.
The youngest is 21.
Half are women, by design, and 17 seats were reserved for representatives of indigenous groups.

Yeah, sounds pretty consistent with socialists. But it also sounds consistent with an effort to create a government that is representative of a population. So if a representative democracy emerges from this convention, are you going to call it Venezuela before it even takes a seat?
Do you want another Pinochet?

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Could Chile show the United States how to rebuild its democracy? | Tony Karon | The Guardian - 2021 Dec 23
"The US once helped destroy Chilean democracy. Now, a constitutional reform movement in Chile could teach the US how to fix its own"

Chile always gave the lie to the cold war claim that the United States stood for democracy. When its voters in 1970 showed the temerity (“irresponsibility”, Henry Kissinger called it) to elect socialist Salvador Allende as president, Washington helped orchestrate the coup that toppled him, and backed the resulting dictatorship.

It seems those “irresponsible” Chilean voters are at it again – on Sunday, they elected leftist Gabriel Boric as president by a 12-point margin, on the back of a campaign for a new constitution. But if Chilean democracy seems on the road to recovery from its Washington-backed disfiguration, prospects for democracy in the United States look rather bleak.

Then the problems that the US faces, like unbalanced sizes of states and the Senate and the Electoral College, and the difficulty of amending the US Constitution.

Boric is a product of a student rebellion a decade ago that fed into a broader social justice movement focused on issues ranging from austerity, a failing social safety net, healthcare and economic inequality to gender violence and Indigenous rights. While even center-left governments were stymied from delivering on voter expectations, many in this parliament of the streets recognized that their grievances were products of the democracy deficit built into the dictatorship’s 1980 constitution to ensure continuity of its economic model.

Although it allowed Chileans to elect their president and lower house of parliament, that constitution built in minority vetoes, such as appointing one-third of senators and much of the judiciary, as failsafe mechanisms to prevent democratically elected politicians from enacting the systemic changes demanded by voters. Thus the emergence of a democracy movement based outside formal political parties, which in late 2019 won a referendum to have a new constitution democratically drafted. That movement’s energy also propelled Boric to power.

Actually, the undemocratic "failsafe" mechanisms had already been removed in previous constitutional amendments, which were made in accordance to the constitution. For example, the senate is elected democratically (see e.g. https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Chile_2015.pdf?lang=en ).

This new constitution is going to be made in violation of amendment rules, which damages Chile's reputation and institutional instability. That was a big mistake, regardless of the merits of the new constitution (on that note, I hope I'm wrong, but I expect the new constitution to be pretty bad due to left-wing ideology built into it; that is another matter, though). That was not necessary. They could have amended the constitution without violating it. They could have even done it by referendum - just by previously amended the procedure for constitutional amendments. Now it's a mess.

Left-wing? Yeah, maybe they should re-Pinochet Chile to fix that.

Why would you say that? Your sarcasm seems so out of place, like an accusation. Pinochet was a murderous right-wing dictator, okay?
And I expect the new constitution to be pretty bad due to the left-wing ideology that will likely be built into it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

New proposals will require two-thirds approval and without a third of the delegates, the government will struggle to block radical changes to the constitution unless it can forge new alliances.

So the new socialist ruler of Chile (Allende 2.0?) wants to impose "radical changes" to the constitution?
That's not going to end well ...

I doesn't matter what his politics are. Constitutions should not be rewritten. We do it the right way--amendments that require supermajorites to pass.

 

[bilby]

New proposals will require two-thirds approval and without a third of the delegates, the government will struggle to block radical changes to the constitution unless it can forge new alliances.

So the new socialist ruler of Chile (Allende 2.0?) wants to impose "radical changes" to the constitution?
That's not going to end well ...

I doesn't matter what his politics are. Constitutions should not be rewritten. We do it the right way--amendments that require supermajorites to pass.

Don't look up.

 

[barbos]

Do you want another Pinochet?

Does not matter what he wants, what matters is what US government wants.
So, does US government want another Pinochet?