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Chinese Economic Stupidity

I've been telling my relatives over there that the Chinese stock market is insanity. Nobody listens.
 
To me that's what it is anyway, when you use earmarked savings to artificially inflate the value of goods.

Let's Use Our Social Security Money to Prop Up the Stock Market

Is this going to be another process whereby the rich get richer and the poor get poorer?

The goods as you put it that they are trying to prop up with the savings from their Social Security aren't real, they are only paper investments, stock certificates. The US stock market has no real impact on the economy that the 99% depend on for their livelihood. The Chinese Stock Market is a little more important because the Chinese do turn to it to raise some capital for investment, although certainly not for the majority of it. In the US only a tiny amount of the annual volume in the stock markets each year is to raise capital for investment, IPOs and dilutive SEOs, 0.00 something %.

The stock markets around the world are largely nothing more than casinos for the rich where they not so much try to find the best companies with the best ideas and the best management, but to find the companies that other investors think have those characteristics, where profits largely come not from the operations of the companies but from the pockets of other gamblers investors and, like a Ponzi scheme, that depend on a constant flow of "new" money coming into the market to have these gains in the market. They don't have really anything to do with the real economy of making products for consumption and paying wages so that people will be able to consume.

The Chinese government needs to get over the idea that the stock markets are important to the economy. They offer only the dimmest reflection of the health of the economy.

Lord Keynes was a professional stock market investor, making and losing a couple of fortunes. Here is his take on the stock markets and investing in them, from chapter 12 of the General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, 1936

Nor is it necessary that anyone should keep his simple faith in the conventional basis of valuation having any genuine long-term validity. For it is, so to speak, a game of Snap, of Old Maid, of Musical Chairs — a pastime in which he is victor who says Snap neither too soon nor too late, who passes the Old Maid to his neighbour before the game is over, who secures a chair for himself when the music stops. These games can be played with zest and enjoyment, though all the players know that it is the Old Maid which is circulating, or that when the music stops some of the players will find themselves unseated.

Or, to change the metaphor slightly, professional investment may be likened to those newspaper competitions in which the competitors have to pick out the six prettiest faces from a hundred photographs, the prize being awarded to the competitor whose choice most nearly corresponds to the average preferences of the competitors as a whole; so that each competitor has to pick, not those faces which he himself finds prettiest, but those which he thinks likeliest to catch the fancy of the other competitors, all of whom are looking at the problem from the same point of view. It is not a case of choosing those which, to the best of one’s judgment, are really the prettiest, nor even those which average opinion genuinely thinks the prettiest. We have reached the third degree where we devote our intelligences to anticipating what average opinion expects the average opinion to be. And there are some, I believe, who practise the fourth, fifth and higher degrees.
 
I've been telling my relatives over there that the Chinese stock market is insanity. Nobody listens.

At their core I found the Chinese to be gamblers, entirely too much of ones for their own good.

I can't say I disagree with that. A problem with the Chinese stock market that the US don't really have is that the ordinary middle/working class Chinese people also really like to go into that stock market casino to play. And they don't do it rationally like having a diversified portfolio. Ordinary housewives who don't know shit about economics or a particular industry will buy stock from company XYZ with their household savings coz their friends told them the stock value is rising and it's a sure bet. There is a lot of public pressure on the government to do things prop up the stock market coz a crash will not only hurt the big companies but also a lot of the middle and lower class.

In the US and Canada, there isn't a public perception that the stock market is a responsibility of the government. In China, the public perception is that the government should be responsible for a strong stock market with continuously rising prices. If the market crashes, the public opinion will be that the government has failed its responsibilities and that could lead to even more civil unrest.
 
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How would a rational reasonable person make money in China?

My definition of rational and reasonable in the US market would be to invest in broad-based low-cost index funds.
 
At their core I found the Chinese to be gamblers, entirely too much of ones for their own good.

I can't say I disagree with that. A problem with the Chinese stock market that the US don't really have is that the ordinary middle/working class Chinese people also really like to go into that stock market casino to play. And they don't do it rationally like having a diversified portfolio. Ordinary housewives who don't know shit about economics or a particular industry will buy stock from company XYZ with their household savings coz their friends told them the stock value is rising and it's a sure bet. There is a lot of public pressure on the government to do things prop up the stock market coz a crash will not only hurt the big companies but also a lot of the middle and lower class.

In the US and Canada, there isn't a public perception that the stock market is a responsibility of the government. In China, the public perception is that the government should be responsible for a strong stock market with continuously rising prices. If the market crashes, the public opinion will be that the government has failed its responsibilities and that could lead to even more civil unrest.

Yup--from what I see from her relatives it's all about patterns, not fundamentals. They don't look at fundamentals, the fundamentals would always say SELL! and they're probably fake anyway.
 
BoJ & Japan’s Government Pension Investment Fund:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/boj-helps-tokyo-stocks-to-soar-1426065432
Since Gov. Haruhiko Kuroda took office in March 2013 and introduced monetary easing of what he called a “different dimension,” the central bank has sharply increased its buying of baskets of stocks known as exchange-traded funds. By directly underpinning the market, officials have tried to encourage private investors to follow suit and put more money in stocks in the hope of stimulating the economy and increasing inflation.

During the past two years, the central bank entered the stock market roughly once every three days, picking up a total of ¥2.8 trillion ($23 billion) of ETFs that track Japan’s major stock indexes, according to Bank of Japan records. That distinguishes it from the U.S. Federal Reserve and European Central Bank, both of which have bought bonds to pump up the economy but haven’t directly bought stocks.

Analysts say the bank’s action has been a significant driver of Japan’s stock-market rally in recent months, combined with hefty purchases by the $1.1 trillion Government Pension Investment Fund.

The Government Pension Fund of Norway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway#Management_and_size
As of 30 September 2014 its total value is NOK 5.534 trillion[1] ($857.1 billion), holding one percent of global equity markets.[2] With 1.78 percent of European stocks,[2] it is said to be the largest stock owner in Europe.
<snip>
In June 2009, the ministry decided to raise the stock portion to 60 percent. In May 2014, the Central bank Governor proposed raising the rate to 70 percent.[8] The Norwegian Government planned that up to 5 percent of the fund should be invested in real estate, beginning in 2010.

Never mind what the near zero to negative US, ECB, BOJ, and other Central Bank rates are doing to encourage leveraged investing…..
 
I guess the question is, does China use it's stock market the way the US is supposed to do. The stock market provides three things 1) Funding small companies so they can grow 2) Small amounts of funding for large companies 3) Drive efficiency

With the state owning a significant percentage...does that happen in China?
 
I guess the question is, does China use it's stock market the way the US is supposed to do. The stock market provides three things 1) Funding small companies so they can grow 2) Small amounts of funding for large companies 3) Drive efficiency

With the state owning a significant percentage...does that happen in China?
Right. Provide venture capital. It's not supposed to artificially prop up the value of homes.
 
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