Chronicles in Socialist Success Stories - Venezuela, what (more) could go wrong?

[untermensche]

Do we also have pity for the millions and millions in South America who are suffering and have suffered for many decades because of capitalism?

[Citation needed]

Only for the ignorant with no knowledge of the world and world history.

We can look at the history of capitalism in places like Mexico and Guatemala and Haiti and Chile and Venezuela and what we find are millions and millions being exploited and living in severe poverty while a few parasites prosper.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's like Swiss cheese. It might have holes, but the cheese itself is delicious and nutritious. Socialism, as Venezuelan people have found out, is all holes. You have a country with huge oil reserves and their economy is in shambles because of gross mismanagement by people who think basic economic principles do not apply as long as you have revolution.

This is a joke, right?

Capitalism in the raw is a highly destructive system, for most. For a tiny few it is a good system.

What has made capitalism tolerable in some places, especially Europe, are all the anti-capitalist government reforms and regulations tacked on top of it. Things like an 8 hour day and paid overtime and sick time. Things the capitalists fought against and still fight against.

It is a bunch of anti-capitalism that is the nutritious cheese.

Capitalism in itself is misery for most while a few dominate and live well.

And that was the capitalism in Venezuela before Chavez. A few white people lived well and millions of the indigenous lived in severe poverty.

Capitalism has it's flaws but nothing else has come close in providing for the welfare of society. Look at the world, the places where starvation stalks the land, it's either war or a lack of capitalism. The latter is evidenced by how the standard of living rises as they introduce more capitalism.

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[Citation needed]

Only for the ignorant with no knowledge of the world and world history.

We can look at the history of capitalism in places like Mexico and Guatemala and Haiti and Chile and Venezuela and what we find are millions and millions being exploited and living in severe poverty while a few parasites prosper.

The problem is you ascribe everything bad to capitalism and ignore what's actually going on.

 

[untermensche]

This is a joke, right?

Capitalism in the raw is a highly destructive system, for most. For a tiny few it is a good system.

What has made capitalism tolerable in some places, especially Europe, are all the anti-capitalist government reforms and regulations tacked on top of it. Things like an 8 hour day and paid overtime and sick time. Things the capitalists fought against and still fight against.

It is a bunch of anti-capitalism that is the nutritious cheese.

Capitalism in itself is misery for most while a few dominate and live well.

And that was the capitalism in Venezuela before Chavez. A few white people lived well and millions of the indigenous lived in severe poverty.

Capitalism has it's flaws but nothing else has come close in providing for the welfare of society. Look at the world, the places where starvation stalks the land, it's either war or a lack of capitalism. The latter is evidenced by how the standard of living rises as they introduce more capitalism.

Capitalism is just a system where a few can legally exploit human ingenuity and progress.

Humans have made progress despite the inefficiencies and exploitations of capitalists.

And in places like the US people have lived well because of the massive exploitation of just as many people in places like South America and Asia.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Capitalism has it's flaws but nothing else has come close in providing for the welfare of society. Look at the world, the places where starvation stalks the land, it's either war or a lack of capitalism. The latter is evidenced by how the standard of living rises as they introduce more capitalism.

Capitalism is just a system where a few can legally exploit human ingenuity and progress.

Humans have made progress despite the inefficiencies and exploitations of capitalists.

And in places like the US people have lived well because of the massive exploitation of just as many people in places like South America and Asia.

Socialism just hides the wealth. The party officials live high on the hog, they just don't do so quite so openly. The masses fare badly in either case.

When you see a shift to theft socialism the masses see a temporary benefit from the theft but once the stolen loot has been spent they're no better off, often worse off.

 

[untermensche]

Capitalism is just a system where a few can legally exploit human ingenuity and progress.

Humans have made progress despite the inefficiencies and exploitations of capitalists.

And in places like the US people have lived well because of the massive exploitation of just as many people in places like South America and Asia.

Socialism just hides the wealth. The party officials live high on the hog, they just don't do so quite so openly. The masses fare badly in either case.

When you see a shift to theft socialism the masses see a temporary benefit from the theft but once the stolen loot has been spent they're no better off, often worse off.

You have this cartoonish juvenile vision of the world.

Capitalism is child labor and sweat shops and a life of misery for most.

Anti-capitalism is the end of child labor, safe working conditions and a living wage. These are all restrictions placed on capitalism and things capitalists killed people to try to prevent. And still, a living wage is something capitalism fails to provide millions who work 40 hours a week.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Socialism just hides the wealth. The party officials live high on the hog, they just don't do so quite so openly. The masses fare badly in either case.

When you see a shift to theft socialism the masses see a temporary benefit from the theft but once the stolen loot has been spent they're no better off, often worse off.

You have this cartoonish juvenile vision of the world.

Capitalism is child labor and sweat shops and a life of misery for most.

Anti-capitalism is the end of child labor, safe working conditions and a living wage. These are all restrictions placed on capitalism and things capitalists killed people to try to prevent. And still, a living wage is something capitalism fails to provide millions who work 40 hours a week.

No, I just don't have this cartoon vision of socialism.

What you seem to be incapable of understanding is that the government intervention you like brings about worse conditions than the capitalism. Lets take a simple case where the long term effects are easy to see: China. The people that grew up under the government controlled economy are all short enough that I can see over the tops of their heads--my eyes are above the top of their hair. This is not true of the ones that grew up once they opened their economy to capitalism. That's one generation, genetics isn't the issue. Nutrition is.

 

[dismal]

Newsflash: printing money causes inflation.

Newsflash US had been printing money for more than a decade now. Any inflation?

next.

You actually don't believe printing money causes inflation?

Do you think governments should stop charging taxes and just print up enough money to pay for everything they need and want?

 

[fromderinside]

Newsflash US had been printing money for more than a decade now. Any inflation?

next.

You actually don't believe printing money causes inflation?

Do you think governments should stop charging taxes and just print up enough money to pay for everything they need and want?

If you have the strength to back it up Hell yes!

I've long been an advocate for posting one to five million dollars for each birth and naturalization against our national debt releasing that for use in commerce.

 

[dismal]

You actually don't believe printing money causes inflation?

Do you think governments should stop charging taxes and just print up enough money to pay for everything they need and want?

If you have the strength to back it up Hell yes!

I've long been an advocate for posting one to five million dollars for each birth and naturalization.

Strength? What sort of strength are you talking about? The strength to push about the wheel barrows full of money?

 

[fromderinside]

If you have the strength to back it up Hell yes!

I've long been an advocate for posting one to five million dollars for each birth and naturalization.

Strength? What sort of strength are you talking about? The strength to push about the wheel barrows full of money?

Boy you are dense when you know the answer is right and disproves your theology. Strength projected by our government to protect business and make politico-economic policy stick!!!!!

 

[dismal]

Strength? What sort of strength are you talking about? The strength to push about the wheel barrows full of money?

Boy you are dense when you know the answer is right and disproves your theology. Strength projected by our government to protect business and make politico-economic policy stick!!!!!

So, your theory is that a government's ability to print money is only limited by the strength it can project?

 

[Derec]

Newsflash US had been printing money for more than a decade now. Any inflation?

next.

You actually don't believe printing money causes inflation?

Do you think governments should stop charging taxes and just print up enough money to pay for everything they need and want?

Reminds me of this:

“If," ["the management consultant"] said tersely, “we could for a moment move on to the subject of fiscal policy. . .”
“Fiscal policy!" whooped Ford Prefect. “Fiscal policy!"
The management consultant gave him a look that only a lungfish could have copied.
“Fiscal policy. . .” he repeated, “that is what I said.”
“How can you have money,” demanded Ford, “if none of you actually produces anything? It doesn't grow on trees you know.”
“If you would allow me to continue.. .”
Ford nodded dejectedly.
“Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich.”
Ford stared in disbelief at the crowd who were murmuring appreciatively at this and greedily fingering the wads of leaves with which their track suits were stuffed.
“But we have also,” continued the management consultant, “run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship’s peanut."
Murmurs of alarm came from the crowd. The management consultant waved them down.
“So in order to obviate this problem,” he continued, “and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and. . .er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances."
The crowd seemed a little uncertain about this for a second or two until someone pointed out how much this would increase the value of the leaves in their pockets whereupon they let out whoops of delight and gave the management consultant a standing ovation. The accountants among them looked forward to a profitable autumn aloft and it got an appreciative round from the crowd.

 

[Derec]

So, your theory is that a government's ability to print money is only limited by the strength it can project?

Of course. For example, the Bolivarian government of Venezuela is so strong that the bolivar is still worth 16 cents.

 

[Derec]

Venezuelan currency enters free fall mode

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So, your theory is that a government's ability to print money is only limited by the strength it can project?

Of course. For example, the Bolivarian government of Venezuela is so strong that the bolivar is still worth 16 cents.

Wow!

http://www.ft.com/fastft/366271/venezuela-bolivar

The real exchange rate is 100x the official rate.

The worst I have ever encountered was 40x in Uganda--and it represented a royally-fucked economy.

 

[dismal]

Of course. For example, the Bolivarian government of Venezuela is so strong that the bolivar is still worth 16 cents.

Wow!

http://www.ft.com/fastft/366271/venezuela-bolivar

The real exchange rate is 100x the official rate.

The worst I have ever encountered was 40x in Uganda--and it represented a royally-fucked economy.

Their strength projector must be out of focus. Maybe they should turn it up to 11?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Now it's beer.

http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...es-Venezuela-what-(more)-could-go-wrong/page2

The companies can't get the raw materials, thus they can't deliver the goods and they get seized by the state.

Our socialists are probably having a wet dream over this.