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Climate Change(d)?

Jimmy Higgins

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In my latest, and first (only?) piece on Climate Change(d), we discuss the issues that is whether Climate Change is the right term anymore and asking if we are in Climate Changed.

Take for instance, the Northwest North American heat wave, which caused the highest temperature ever recorded in Canadian history... and that happened in June. Portland, Oregon blew their all-time (not the record for the day, but for the year... any year) temp record by 9 degrees, which is the equivalent of some hockey player breaking Gretzky's scoring record by scoring 500 to 1,000 goals in a season.

Portland's high temps are interesting when looked at historically. There is a balance until about 1977, when the annual high gets above 100 degrees consistently. Then in 2021, they torch the record by 9 degrees! That is simply unheard of.

Climate scientists are reviewing this heat wave, not merely because it was unusual, but suspecting it was actually near impossible without human intervention. One study indicted possibly 1 in a 100,000 year event. IE, this was extreme for an extreme extreme event. Another study suggests with the changes in our atmosphere, this could become a 1 in 5 or 10 year event, hence the past tense on changed. Temperatures that soared above 100 degrees for a week... in the Pacific Northwest known for its... well not getting that hot.

With Texas getting that extraordinarily cold spell in the winter, that really gives the feel of an atmosphere that is far from equilibrium, and the continual adding of more energy into it, via greenhouse gases that are increasing the temperature is going to make what has already happened get worse. We seem to be more on a rocket in motion, instead of the dreamy stop the ticking clock scenario. Time will tell if this is the new climate, sadly years will be needed. But with the all-time records, and monthly average records abounding, the climate appears to have changed and our continued effort of ignoring it, will lead to further change that could make survival harder and harder.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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In my latest, and first (only?) piece on Climate Change(d), we discuss the issues that is whether Climate Change is the right term anymore and asking if we are in Climate Changed.

Take for instance, the Northwest North American heat wave, which caused the highest temperature ever recorded in Canadian history... and that happened in June. Portland, Oregon blew their all-time (not the record for the day, but for the year... any year) temp record by 9 degrees, which is the equivalent of some hockey player breaking Gretzky's scoring record by scoring 500 to 1,000 goals in a season.

Portland's high temps are interesting when looked at historically. There is a balance until about 1977, when the annual high gets above 100 degrees consistently. Then in 2021, they torch the record by 9 degrees! That is simply unheard of.

Climate scientists are reviewing this heat wave, not merely because it was unusual, but suspecting it was actually near impossible without human intervention. One study indicted possibly 1 in a 100,000 year event. IE, this was extreme for an extreme extreme event. Another study suggests with the changes in our atmosphere, this could become a 1 in 5 or 10 year event, hence the past tense on changed. Temperatures that soared above 100 degrees for a week... in the Pacific Northwest known for its... well not getting that hot.

With Texas getting that extraordinarily cold spell in the winter, that really gives the feel of an atmosphere that is far from equilibrium, and the continual adding of more energy into it, via greenhouse gases that are increasing the temperature is going to make what has already happened get worse. We seem to be more on a rocket in motion, instead of the dreamy stop the ticking clock scenario. Time will tell if this is the new climate, sadly years will be needed. But with the all-time records, and monthly average records abounding, the climate appears to have changed and our continued effort of ignoring it, will lead to further change that could make survival harder and harder.
If you are talking human survival, that's a given. Humans will be around for a while. The loss comes in the form of extinguished diversity and richness in all species. What is most interesting is how many people are still asking if the glacier is really moving. Must just be human stupidity on display.
 

steve_bank

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Here in the Northwest climate has changed. It is getting warmer and has been for a long time.

Miami is already being effected by rising oceans. I recently listened to a recent discussion.

It has taken a long time to add heat to the ocean with a large mass. Even if green house gasses went to zero right away it will take a long time for the oceans to cool back down.

The conclusion of the speaker, it is upon us and all we can do is react.
 

Swammerdami

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A simple reason why not to add the 'd' to Climate Change and form a past tense:
It's not over yet! Expect climate to continue changing. (Where's the :gak: emoticon? )

Not long ago, ignorant redneck Americans had a standard punchline: Whenever the weather turned cold, or there was snow, they'd say "More of that global warming, chortle chortle!"

My guess is that most of them have stopped that chortling by now.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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A simple reason why not to add the 'd' to Climate Change and form a past tense:
It's not over yet! Expect climate to continue changing. (Where's the :gak: emoticon? )

Not long ago, ignorant redneck Americans had a standard punchline: Whenever the weather turned cold, or there was snow, they'd say "More of that global warming, chortle chortle!"

My guess is that most of them have stopped that chortling by now.
These same people are still mocking the Pandemic that killed over 600,000 Americans.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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A simple reason why not to add the 'd' to Climate Change and form a past tense:
It's not over yet! Expect climate to continue changing. (Where's the :gak: emoticon? )

Not long ago, ignorant redneck Americans had a standard punchline: Whenever the weather turned cold, or there was snow, they'd say "More of that global warming, chortle chortle!"

My guess is that most of them have stopped that chortling by now.
These same people are still mocking the Pandemic that killed over 600,000 Americans.

Right. There are people who wear their ignorance like a badge of honor. There is nothing that will change that.
 

steve_bank

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A simple reason why not to add the 'd' to Climate Change and form a past tense:
It's not over yet! Expect climate to continue changing. (Where's the :gak: emoticon? )

Not long ago, ignorant redneck Americans had a standard punchline: Whenever the weather turned cold, or there was snow, they'd say "More of that global warming, chortle chortle!"

My guess is that most of them have stopped that chortling by now.

Do ypu really want to get into cultural stereotypes?

Ignorance is word wide.
 

Shadowy Man

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Portland's high temps are interesting when looked at historically. There is a balance until about 1977, when the annual high gets above 100 degrees consistently. Then in 2021, they torch the record by 9 degrees! That is simply unheard of.

So I downloaded those data and plotted them up. There’s a fair amount of scatter but it does show a weak trend of an increase in high temperature of about 0.045 degrees F per year. This is noticeable even though the standard deviation of the ensemble is about 4 degrees.

Note that these data range from 1875 to only 2009 and there’s probably a correction that could be applied for an urban heat island effect as I’m the sure the city has grown in that time.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Portland's high temps are interesting when looked at historically. There is a balance until about 1977, when the annual high gets above 100 degrees consistently. Then in 2021, they torch the record by 9 degrees! That is simply unheard of.

So I downloaded those data and plotted them up. There’s a fair amount of scatter but it does show a weak trend of an increase in high temperature of about 0.045 degrees F per year. This is noticeable even though the standard deviation of the ensemble is about 4 degrees.

Note that these data range from 1875 to only 2009 and there’s probably a correction that could be applied for an urban heat island effect as I’m the sure the city has grown in that time.
Just looking at the 100+ makes that apparent. I agree, development definitely can impact those numbers as well. And of course, this is merely a single temp for the year.
 

steve_bank

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During the London Fog there was speculation about air pollution and climate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea_soup_fog

Historical observations

From as early as the 1200s,[2][3] air pollution became increasingly prevalent, and a predominant perception in the 13th century was that sea-coal[4] smoke would affect one's health.[5][6] From the mid-1600s, in U.K. cities, especially London, the incidence of ill-health was attributed to coal smoke from both domestic and industrial chimneys combining with the mists and fogs of the Thames Valley.[7] Luke Howard, a pioneer in urban climate studies, published The Climate of London in 1818–1820, in which he uses the term 'city fog' and describes the heat island effect which concentrated the accumulation of smog over the city.[8]

In 1880 Francis Albert Rollo Russell, son of the former Prime Minister Lord John Russell, published a leaflet that blamed home hearth smoke, rather than factories' smoke, for damaging the city's important buildings, depriving vegetation of sunlight, and increasing the expense and effort of laundering clothes. Furthermore, he charged the "perpetually present" sulphurous smoke with increasing bronchitis and other respiratory diseases. More than 2,000 Londoners had "literally choked to death", he wrote, on account of "a want of carefulness in preventing smoke in our domestic fires" which emitted coal smoke from "more than a million chimneys" that when combined with the prolonged fogs of late January and early February 1880, fatally aggravated pre-existing lung conditions and was "more fatal than the slaughter of many a great battle".[9][10][11]

The difficulties of driving through the fog were vividly described in the Autocar magazine, with an otherwise straightforward 45 mile car journey on the night of 12 December 1946 taking over eight hours to complete. At times, the passenger having to get out and walk alongside the car to see the kerb and operate the steering through the side window while the driver operated the pedals.[12]

The most lethal incidence of this smog in London occurred in 1952 and resulted in the Clean Air Act 1956 and Clean Air Act 1968, both now repealed and consolidated into the Clean Air Act 1993 which were effective in largely removing sulphur dioxide and coal smoke, the causes of pea soup fog, though these have been replaced by less visible pollutants that derive from vehicles in urban areas.[13]
Origins of the term

Reference to the sources of smog, along with the earliest extant use of "pea-soup" as a descriptor, is found in a report by John Sartain published in 1820 on life as a young artist, recounting what it was like to

slink home through a fog as thick and as yellow as the pea-soup of the eating house; return to your painting room ... having opened your window at going out, to find the stink of the paint rendered worse, if possible, by the entrance of the fog, which, being a compound from the effusions of gas pipes, tan yards, chimneys, dyers, blanket scourers, breweries, sugar bakers, and soap boilers, may easily be imagined not to improve the smell of a painting room! [14]

An 1871 New York Times article refers to "London, particularly, where the population are periodically submerged in a fog of the consistency of pea soup". The fogs caused large numbers of deaths from respiratory problems.[15]
 

bilby

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A simple reason why not to add the 'd' to Climate Change and form a past tense:
It's not over yet! Expect climate to continue changing. (Where's the :gak: emoticon? )

Not long ago, ignorant redneck Americans had a standard punchline: Whenever the weather turned cold, or there was snow, they'd say "More of that global warming, chortle chortle!"

My guess is that most of them have stopped that chortling by now.

Do ypu really want to get into cultural stereotypes?

Ignorance is word wide.

Indeed it is. But there's a certain kind of smugly confident ignorance that's almost uniquely American. It's not really a geographical thing though, it's a fundamentalist Christian thing - you needn't be American to have it, though most who have it are. You needn't even be a Christian, but you do need to have been strongly influenced by the type in your formative years. That level of childhood exposure pretty much ceased in the developed world in the middle of the twentieth century. But it persists in the USA.

Those Americans who suffer it are as oblivious to this brand of ignorance as fish are to water, and for the same reasons.

It leads to all kinds of denial of reality, from denial of climate change and pandemic diseases, to denial of Donald Trump's imbecility. Denial of personal privilege is another common symptom, as is denial of all familial, societal and infrastructural assistance in personal success.

Cultural stereotypes exist for a reason. They may be caricatures, but there's frequently a grain of truth in them.
 

Swammerdami

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My mention of 'redneck' Americans was misleading. There are plenty of non-rural Californians who fit the stereotype and millions in Flyover-Land who do not. I added the 'redneck' because the correlation, however weak, might help clarify.

A simple reason why not to add the 'd' to Climate Change and form a past tense:
It's not over yet! Expect climate to continue changing. (Where's the :gak: emoticon? )

Not long ago, ignorant redneck Americans had a standard punchline: Whenever the weather turned cold, or there was snow, they'd say "More of that global warming, chortle chortle!"

My guess is that most of them have stopped that chortling by now.

Do ypu really want to get into cultural stereotypes?

Ignorance is word wide.

Indeed it is. But there's a certain kind of smugly confident ignorance that's almost uniquely American. It's not really a geographical thing though, it's a fundamentalist Christian thing - you needn't be American to have it, though most who have it are. You needn't even be a Christian, but you do need to have been strongly influenced by the type in your formative years. That level of childhood exposure pretty much ceased in the developed world in the middle of the twentieth century. But it persists in the USA.

Those Americans who suffer it are as oblivious to this brand of ignorance as fish are to water, and for the same reasons.

It leads to all kinds of denial of reality, from denial of climate change and pandemic diseases, to denial of Donald Trump's imbecility. Denial of personal privilege is another common symptom, as is denial of all familial, societal and infrastructural assistance in personal success.

Indeed. Americans who seldom or never leave America may be unaware of it, but an American stereotype is visible when traveling abroad. (I'm thinking of characters unrelated to religion, though.)

Correlation isn't perfect: Most Americans lack this "Americanishness" and some non-Americans have it. Some Brits also tend to be insufferable, but the details differ from the American characters! :)

Cultural stereotypes exist for a reason. They may be caricatures, but there's frequently a grain of truth in them.
Indeed. No more examples from me; no need to be accused of bigotry. :)
 

southernhybrid

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Yes. The climate is obviously changing, although this summer hasn't been nearly as hot as usual here in Georgia. But, global warming doesn't mean that it will get hotter everywhere, or maybe the warmth will be in different seasons. Our winters are much milder than they were when I moved her about 26 years ago.

Here's some excerpts from a fairly good article. Not sure if it's behind a pay wall, so I'll try and highlight some of the best parts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/western-us-readies-for-scorching-heat-this-weekend/2021/07/08/32af0b6e-e027-11eb-9f54-7eee10b5fcd2_story.html

Days after an unprecedented heat wave hit the Pacific Northwest, killing scores, officials in the western United States on Thursday were preparing for a another round of scorching heat expected to hit this weekend.
While not expected to be as deadly as the wave that caused widespread highs of 100 or more, including 116 in Portland and 108 in Seattle, temperatures in the West are likely to be up to 25 degrees above average for this time of year, according to forecasts.
Concerned about vulnerable populations, emergency management departments in cities across central California went into overdrive Thursday as they attempted to prepare and protect their residents.
“This is a clear and present danger,” said Michael Wehner, a senior scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
Wehner said that while surging temperatures like the country is experiencing this summer might have once been considered highly abnormal, they are no longer.


Climate change is already making it more difficult for people who work outside to do their work.

Federico Castillo, a lecturer and research specialist at the University of California at Berkeley who has studied the impact of heat waves on agricultural workers, said the heat affects farmworkers financially, physically and socioeconomically.
Farmworkers are often paid by the pail, based on how much produce they pick each day, or by the hour. Many are undocumented and poor. Castillo said the average farm laborer misses about two weeks of work a year because of extreme heat — a significant loss in wages for a low-income worker.

As is usually the case, those at the bottom economically will suffer the most.

In a United Farm Workers Foundation survey in Washington state, more than half of farmworkers said they experienced a heat illness symptom while working. About 40 percent said their employer has not provided them shade.
Pacific Northwest heat wave was ‘virtually impossible’ without climate change, scientists find
Construction workers, too, are bracing for the extreme heat. The Southwest Regional Council of Carpenters union has been blasting messages via social media warning of the dangers of heat exposure, encouraging group talks before work shifts on the best safety precautions for working in the heat, and disseminating information on the best foods and drinks to consume in such temperatures, said Josh Raper, the union’s regional manager.
“We have a dangerous trade,” Raper said. “We are exposed to the elements more than most, and so we are impacted higher than most.”


I hate to be so pessimistic but I doubt we will make much progress in our attempts to cut back on our habits that have impacted the climate. Of course, it's not just the US. The world's most productive countries must work together to transition to energy, fuels, etc. that don't have such a severe impact on the environment. I don't have hope for that.
 

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Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.
Baffling that the climate deniers deny the very same scientific pursuit that they rely on to tell them that the climate has changed in the past.
 

Swammerdami

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Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.
Baffling that the climate deniers deny the very same scientific pursuit that they rely on to tell them that the climate has changed in the past.
"Climate change is normal. Get over it."

What deniers ignore is that PAST climate changes argue FOR treating the present changes as an emergency. There is evidence that minor events in the past have caused rapid and dramatic climate change.

If one had a millions-of-years perspective, some climate change might be no big deal. But we don't have millions of years. Human civilization is fragile, especially given the high population. The near future may present very severe consequences.
 

TSwizzle

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Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.
Baffling that the climate deniers deny the very same scientific pursuit that they rely on to tell them that the climate has changed in the past.

LOL, "climate denier". WT actual F is a climate denier ? No one, absolutely no one denies climate.

It's a religion for you lot.
 

steve_bank

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A simple reason why not to add the 'd' to Climate Change and form a past tense:
It's not over yet! Expect climate to continue changing. (Where's the :gak: emoticon? )

Not long ago, ignorant redneck Americans had a standard punchline: Whenever the weather turned cold, or there was snow, they'd say "More of that global warming, chortle chortle!"

My guess is that most of them have stopped that chortling by now.

Do ypu really want to get into cultural stereotypes?

Ignorance is word wide.

Indeed it is. But there's a certain kind of smugly confident ignorance that's almost uniquely American. It's not really a geographical thing though, it's a fundamentalist Christian thing - you needn't be American to have it, though most who have it are. You needn't even be a Christian, but you do need to have been strongly influenced by the type in your formative years. That level of childhood exposure pretty much ceased in the developed world in the middle of the twentieth century. But it persists in the USA.

Those Americans who suffer it are as oblivious to this brand of ignorance as fish are to water, and for the same reasons.

It leads to all kinds of denial of reality, from denial of climate change and pandemic diseases, to denial of Donald Trump's imbecility. Denial of personal privilege is another common symptom, as is denial of all familial, societal and infrastructural assistance in personal success.

Cultural stereotypes exist for a reason. They may be caricatures, but there's frequently a grain of truth in them.

I don't usually reply to your posts, but this one cries out.

A Brit calling Americans uppity, arrogant, and smug is rather a bit ironic old chum, wouldn't you say?.
 

Shadowy Man

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Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.
Baffling that the climate deniers deny the very same scientific pursuit that they rely on to tell them that the climate has changed in the past.

LOL, "climate denier". WT actual F is a climate denier ? No one, absolutely no one denies climate.

It's a religion for you lot.
Climate change denier. I think you know exactly what I meant. It’s like the people who get on the case of the Black Lives Matter movement because they didn’t append the word “too” to the end of the name. You’re avoiding the substance of my point by attacking a trivial semantic point.
 

Shadowy Man

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I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.
 

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bilby

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Indeed it is. But there's a certain kind of smugly confident ignorance that's almost uniquely American. It's not really a geographical thing though, it's a fundamentalist Christian thing - you needn't be American to have it, though most who have it are. You needn't even be a Christian, but you do need to have been strongly influenced by the type in your formative years. That level of childhood exposure pretty much ceased in the developed world in the middle of the twentieth century. But it persists in the USA.

Those Americans who suffer it are as oblivious to this brand of ignorance as fish are to water, and for the same reasons.

It leads to all kinds of denial of reality, from denial of climate change and pandemic diseases, to denial of Donald Trump's imbecility. Denial of personal privilege is another common symptom, as is denial of all familial, societal and infrastructural assistance in personal success.

Cultural stereotypes exist for a reason. They may be caricatures, but there's frequently a grain of truth in them.

I don't usually reply to your posts, but this one cries out.

A Brit calling Americans uppity, arrogant, and smug is rather a bit ironic old chum, wouldn't you say?.

I didn't call Americans any of those things, though I did describe their confidence as 'smug'. Perhaps fewer ignorant assumptions on your part would be wise, if you don't want to conform to the American stereotype I actually described.

Tu Quoque, even if accurate, is not a defence, by the way.

And if you want to upset me by attacking my country of birth, you're barking up the wrong tree. Patriotism is stupid, and I already decided some twenty five years ago that I didn't much care for Britain, and left.

More Americans, and more Englishmen, should abandon their blind knee-jerk patriotism. It would very significantly improve their countries if they did.
 

TSwizzle

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I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.
 

Shadowy Man

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I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

I personally know several climate scientists and they are not activists. there may be some who are but most are simply scientists studying the climate and publishing their results.

You still haven’t substantively addressed my point yet though.
 

TSwizzle

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I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

I personally know several climate scientists and they are not activists. there may be some who are but most are simply scientists studying the climate and publishing their results.

You still haven’t substantively addressed my point yet though.

The climate "scientists" have been spectacularly wrong with every apocalyptic prediction of impending doom they have made. "We only have 10 years to save the planet" every so often. Utter bullshit.

It really is a rapture like cult.
 

steve_bank

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Climate simulation shoud get better as tim provides mire data to improve the model.
'
The idea that climate science represents a claim of absolutely accuracy is ignorance.

Predicting weather used to be about 50/50. As models imporoved based o usage local weather out for wa week or more can be very accurate. Tmperatures withib few degrees.

MAcconnell a leader in our confress brought a snow ball into a session, wnet to the podium. and exclaimed if ther is snow in DC how can tgier be warming?

It is a ratiomnalization for inaction. We are already seeing the effects.

Many small changes yjat will add up. Globaly lake tempertures are risng.

Here in Lake Washington a salmon run is conditioned by temperature. The fish arrive when there is an algae bloom that feeds a prey fish for the salmon. The bloom is based on water temperature. Now the salmon arrive past the bloom.

Higher river temps depletes O2 for spawning salmon. They suffocate.

It des not have to be linear and predictable, there can be non linear tipping points.

The idea that scientists are getting it wrong is ignorant rationalization.

If the ocean ecosystem including reefs collapse humans die off.

We are about to ge an attitude check on our humans as above nature attitude. Hunan's control nature.
.
 

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Loren Pechtel

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Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.
Baffling that the climate deniers deny the very same scientific pursuit that they rely on to tell them that the climate has changed in the past.

LOL, "climate denier". WT actual F is a climate denier ? No one, absolutely no one denies climate.

It's a religion for you lot.

"Climate denier" is simply a shortening of "Climate change denier". People who pretend the CO2 we are dumping in the atmosphere doesn't matter.
 

Loren Pechtel

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I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

Your state is a tinderbox. You've already had one town basically burned down.

Farmers are ripping out almond trees because they don't have enough water for them.

You think that's a nothing?
 

Swammerdami

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It isn't just humans who died in the Northwest heat wave.
N.Y. Times said:
Dead mussels and clams coated rocks in the Pacific Northwest, their shells gaping open as if they’d been boiled. Sea stars were baked to death. Sockeye salmon swam sluggishly in an overheated Washington river, prompting wildlife officials to truck them to cooler areas.

The combination of extraordinary heat and drought that hit the Western United States and Canada over the past two weeks has killed hundreds of millions of marine animals and continues to threaten untold species in freshwater, according to a preliminary estimate and interviews with scientists.

“It just feels like one of those postapocalyptic movies,” said Christopher Harley, a marine biologist at the University of British Columbia who studies the effects of climate change on coastal marine ecosystems.

To calculate the death toll, Dr. Harley first looked at how many blue mussels live on a particular shoreline, how much of the area is good habitat for mussels and what fraction of the mussels he observed died. He estimated losses for the mussels alone in the hundreds of millions. Factoring in the other creatures that live in the mussel beds and on the shore — barnacles, hermit crabs and other crustaceans, various worms, tiny sea cucumbers — puts the deaths at easily over a billion, he said.
...
When he walked to the beach last week on one of the hottest days, the smell of decay struck him immediately. The scientist in him was excited, he admitted, to see the real-life effect of something he’d been studying for so long.

But his mood quickly changed.

“The more I walked and the more I saw, the more sobering it all became,” Dr. Harley said. “It just went on and on and on.”

The dead sea stars, usually the most eye-catching creatures in tidal pools, hit him particularly hard. But the obvious mass victims were blue mussels, an ecologically important species that feeds sea stars and sea ducks and creates habitat for other animals.
...
“We are already at critical temperatures three weeks before the most serious heating occurs,” said Don Chapman, a retired fisheries biologist who specialized in salmon and steelhead trout, talking about conditions along the Snake River in Washington, where four dams are the subject of longstanding controversy. “I think we’re headed for disaster.”

The plight of the salmon illustrates a broader danger facing all kinds of species as climate change worsens. Many animals were already struggling to survive because of human activity degrading their habitats. Throw in extreme heat and drought, and their odds of survival diminish.
The article doesn't clarify whether Dr. Harley is a scientist with a PhD, or a "scientist" with a "PhD."
 

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LOL, "climate denier". WT actual F is a climate denier ? No one, absolutely no one denies climate.

It's a religion for you lot.

"Climate denier" is simply a shortening of "Climate change denier". People who pretend the CO2 we are dumping in the atmosphere doesn't matter.

He knows this but by arguing the semantics he can avoid arguing the substance.
 

Shadowy Man

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I’ll rephrase:

I find it intellectually dishonest argumentation for people to claim that climate scientists are wrong in saying anthropogenic climate change is real by pointing out that climate scientists say that the climate has been variable in the past.

Either you believe climate scientists or you do not. You don’t get to only believe in the science that supports your political position.

The climate "scientists" (most are actually activists) cannot be trusted. They too have been politicized and corrupted. Gavin Newson is yet again banging on about wildfires, drought and climate change. He's a fucking moron.

Your state is a tinderbox. You've already had one town basically burned down.

Farmers are ripping out almond trees because they don't have enough water for them.

You think that's a nothing?
But the climate scientists that can’t be trusted tell us that climate always changes so that explains the current situation. They can be trusted to get that part right but can’t be trusted to get the part right that goes against the right’s current political climate. How about them cherries?
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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Your state is a tinderbox. You've already had one town basically burned down.

Farmers are ripping out almond trees because they don't have enough water for them.

You think that's a nothing?
But the climate scientists that can’t be trusted tell us that climate always changes so that explains the current situation. They can be trusted to get that part right but can’t be trusted to get the part right that goes against the right’s current political climate. How about them cherries?
It's the TSwizzle Right Wing Soap Opera. Can't you hear the music?
 

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It isn't just humans who died in the Northwest heat wave.
N.Y. Times said:
“It just feels like one of those postapocalyptic movies,” said Christopher Harley, a marine biologist at the University of British Columbia who studies the effects of climate change on coastal marine ecosystems.

“We are already at critical temperatures three weeks before the most serious heating occurs,” said Don Chapman, a retired fisheries biologist who specialized in salmon and steelhead trout, talking about conditions along the Snake River in Washington, where four dams are the subject of longstanding controversy. “I think we’re headed for disaster.”
The article doesn't clarify whether Dr. Harley is a scientist with a PhD, or a "scientist" with a "PhD."

He's definitely an alarmist. Warmly embraced by the religious at the NYT.

A rapture like cult.
 

Shadowy Man

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Obviously, the best time to raise an alarm is *after* the disaster hits. That way you can be 100% sure of your prediction. No one will believe you if you can’t predict it exactly.
 

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Obviously, the best time to raise an alarm is *after* the disaster hits. That way you can be 100% sure of your prediction. No one will believe you if you can’t predict it exactly.

Since every apocalyptical prediction has failed to materialize thus far, I'll risk it.

Just another seven years to save the planet again.

Rapture like cult.
 

steve_bank

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It depends on how you deine apocalyptic.

In the news shallow water marine life on the NW coast are being cooked alive.

According to the UN food insecurity which was stedily decreasing is going back up. Drought, heta, and loss of crops.

The UW has predicted with falling snow paks the Columbia River will draw down. Sbow in winter melts, runss off to tte Colombia, amd [rvides wtaer for farming in eastern Washington and Oregon.

Decades back a govt report predicted we will no longer be a net agriculture exported.

Loss of water and food supplies is what, if not apocalyptical then what?

And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe? That sounds like a FOX News commentary. They find people with a science degree who is off the riails and quote the person as if it represents 'science'.

Climate modeling is base on the same science and math as routine weather and hurricane predictions. The forcast may say 140 mph winds and it is actualt 100 mph does not matter. There is still destruction.

Whether the temperature goes up 5 degrees or 10 digress is irrelevant, there will be disruptions. We are meaning a global temperature rise and observing consequences.
 

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And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe?

“Credible” ? Most of the reporting/studies on the upcoming catastrophes just aren’t credible. Sensationalist nonsense not based in science at all.
That sounds like a FOX News commentary..

Try reading The Gruaniad sometime.
 

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And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe?

“Credible” ? Most of the reporting/studies on the upcoming catastrophes just aren’t credible. Sensationalist nonsense not based in science at all.
That sounds like a FOX News commentary..

Try reading The Gruaniad sometime.
I get my science from scientific sources not journalistic ones. Journalists always blow everything out of proportion, even in astronomy, my primary field. And then to take a politically charged field, like climate science has been forced to become, it is going to be even harder to easily obtain proper scientific information. My guess is the apocalyptic predictions are not straight out of science journals but have been filtered by journalists and activists, as you say, and it is unfortunate because the real science becomes obscured and mistrusted by those without direct access to it.
 

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It depends on how you deine apocalyptic.

In the news shallow water marine life on the NW coast are being cooked alive.

According to the UN food insecurity which was stedily decreasing is going back up. Drought, heta, and loss of crops.

The UW has predicted with falling snow paks the Columbia River will draw down. Sbow in winter melts, runss off to tte Colombia, amd [rvides wtaer for farming in eastern Washington and Oregon.

Decades back a govt report predicted we will no longer be a net agriculture exported.

Loss of water and food supplies is what, if not apocalyptical then what?

And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe? That sounds like a FOX News commentary. They find people with a science degree who is off the riails and quote the person as if it represents 'science'.

Climate modeling is base on the same science and math as routine weather and hurricane predictions. The forcast may say 140 mph winds and it is actualt 100 mph does not matter. There is still destruction.

Whether the temperature goes up 5 degrees or 10 digress is irrelevant, there will be disruptions. We are meaning a global temperature rise and observing consequences.

Exactly. Things will get slowly, and steadily worse. And in some parts of the world it's already a serious problem.

TSwizzle's a lot older than my one year old son, though, so not his problem.
 

steve_bank

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And who in credible science is claiming an impending immediate catastrophe?

“Credible” ? Most of the reporting/studies on the upcoming catastrophes just aren’t credible. Sensationalist nonsense not based in science at all.
That sounds like a FOX News commentary..

Try reading The Gruaniad sometime.

Am I speaking to Tucker Carlson?

Not the Guardian, but I do listen to BBC reporting on how climate is affecting the poorer parts of the world amd first world as well

While I was never in involved in climate science I do kow thermodynamics and the math used for simulations. Are you familiar
with simulation techniques like finite elements? Or are you just one of the ignorant masses who are swayed by nonsense rhetoric.

A rhetorical question as the answer is manifest.

Cam yiu site specific studies that are questionable? Or are you just chanting the mantra of a climate hoax?
 

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Obviously, the best time to raise an alarm is *after* the disaster hits. That way you can be 100% sure of your prediction. No one will believe you if you can’t predict it exactly.

Since every apocalyptical prediction has failed to materialize thus far, I'll risk it.

Just another seven years to save the planet again.

Rapture like cult.

The problem is the apocalyptic predictions you refer to not coming true were made by reporters, not scientists.
 

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“Credible” ? Most of the reporting/studies on the upcoming catastrophes just aren’t credible. Sensationalist nonsense not based in science at all.


Try reading The Gruaniad sometime.

Am I speaking to Tucker Carlson?

Don’t be daft.

Not the Guardian, but I do listen to BBC reporting on how climate is affecting the poorer parts of the world amd first world as well

Oh ffs, the BBC is just as bad, possibly worse. Propaganda.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Exactly. Things will get slowly, and steadily worse. And in some parts of the world it's already a serious problem.

TSwizzle's a lot older than my one year old son, though, so not his problem.

Exactly. The climate problems are not likely to cause serious problems in the lifespan of most of the deniers. It's the same attitude of the people who drop trash on the trails--not my problem. (Can we have a firing squad for the subhuman who tossed a diaper beside the trail??)
 

steve_bank

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Don’t be daft.

Not the Guardian, but I do listen to BBC reporting on how climate is affecting the poorer parts of the world amd first world as well

Oh ffs, the BBC is just as bad, possibly worse. Propaganda.

Trolling?

Did you know the metric system is a global conspiracy to usher in global government?

Do you uderstnd what goes into a simulation of a physical system?

If the weater report says next week it is going to rain would you go camping?

If you live on the east coast and a hurricane pits you in a probaility zone for landfall would yiu doubt it?

That and climate simulation are essentially the same.

Again any specific study yiu question? Or like my good buddy Tucker do you just troll making gross generalizations from ignorance.
 

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Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.

Good ole fashioned false dichotomy.
And he still hasn’t addressed my point that the reason we know the climate hasn’t been static is because of the work of climate scientists, who he also claims can’t be trusted. So which is it? Can’t have it both ways.
 

Swammerdami

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Baffling why so many expect earth's climate to be static.

Climate change/crisis/emergency. A rapture like cult.

Carry on.

Good ole fashioned false dichotomy.
And he still hasn’t addressed my point that the reason we know the climate hasn’t been static is because of the work of climate scientists, who he also claims can’t be trusted. So which is it? Can’t have it both ways.

Why not? Do you seriously think right-wing conspiracy theorists are bound by Aristotelian logic? I've posted about my friend who e-mailed me a (fake?) picture of corpses lying on the ground near a biological warfare lab in Wuhan, while also telling me that most Covid-19 deaths were actually due to the common flu.

the White Queen said:
Can't you? Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.
Alice said:
There's no use trying; one CAN'T believe impossible things.
I daresay you haven't had much practice. When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
 
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