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Climate Change(d)?

Loren Pechtel

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In the 80s when living in Portalnd I used to go up n Mt hood with crampons and ice axe. Around 10k feet. I never felt it, but that s differnt tan living at 1ok feet or higher.

People in their 0s have summited Mt Rainer, about 14k feet..

The test woud be taking a cognitive and physical equity test at low altitude and at 10k feet after a day.

Or you can measure your level walking heart rate and blood oxygen level at low altitude and 10k feet to see how harder your heart is working. Meters are cheap and in drug stores. It would be a good experiment.

My heart efficiency metric is 30% insted of a typical; 80%. I would have a hard time at high altitude. I would not get enough O2 around my body.
Microspikes/snowshoes are my limit. If I need crampons it's too much. There have been times I've debated about an ice axe--but only as a tool to tame some of the remains in melt season, not for it's intended purpose.

I've never tried heart efficiency calculations. Trying to make an even comparison between low and high altitude heart rate would be basically impossible due to the lack of sufficient level ground at high altitude around here. I have noticed my max heart rate will go higher at sea level elevation even though it doesn't feel like I'm working as hard--which says to me that my perception of exertion is actually related to oxygen and not truly exertion.

I'm sure I would not perform as well on either a cognitive or physical test at high elevation--it's just I get no mountain sickness. My impression of Rainer is that it's too technical for me, but I'm hoping to someday do Whitney as a 2-day.
 

TSwizzle

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The Ministry of Truth (AKA BBC) caught telling fibs;

A BBC Panorama documentary about global warming made a number of false claims, an internal investigation by the broadcaster has found. The programme Wild Weather, presented by climate editor Justin Rowlatt, said deaths worldwide were rising due to extreme weather caused by climate change – whereas the opposite is true. It also claimed Madagascar was on the verge of the first famine caused by climate change – despite other factors being involved.

Rowlatt's sister is a rapture cultist and has been arrested for her eco warrior activities for extinction rebellion.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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The Ministry of Truth (AKA BBC) caught telling fibs;

A BBC Panorama documentary about global warming made a number of false claims, an internal investigation by the broadcaster has found. The programme Wild Weather, presented by climate editor Justin Rowlatt, said deaths worldwide were rising due to extreme weather caused by climate change – whereas the opposite is true. It also claimed Madagascar was on the verge of the first famine caused by climate change – despite other factors being involved.

Rowlatt's sister is a rapture cultist and has been arrested for her eco warrior activities for extinction rebellion.
Well thank goodness this was exposed. Now we know that temperatures on Earth aren't increasing relatively quickly and sea levels aren't slowly increasing / warming.
 

steve_bank

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What a relief, I will sleep much better now.
 

TSwizzle

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What a relief, I will sleep much better now.

There are very few things that give me a restless night, mostly job related stuff. I have never once gone to bed and thought about "climate change". I've maybe gone to bed and thought, "It's going to be nice out tomorrow, I think I'll grill dinner." My swimming pool is warming up nicely, I think I could go swimming this weekend.
 

pood

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What a relief, I will sleep much better now.

There are very few things that give me a restless night, mostly job related stuff. I have never once gone to bed and thought about "climate change". I've maybe gone to bed and thought, "It's going to be nice out tomorrow, I think I'll grill dinner." My swimming pool is warming up nicely, I think I could go swimming this weekend.

Were you planning to respond to my linked refutation of your claim that past predictions of climate change have been spectacularly wrong?

When you write something like the above, it makes me think you are a troll. Surely you understand the difference between weather and climate? Or no? Or do you pretend not to?
 

Loren Pechtel

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The Ministry of Truth (AKA BBC) caught telling fibs;

A BBC Panorama documentary about global warming made a number of false claims, an internal investigation by the broadcaster has found. The programme Wild Weather, presented by climate editor Justin Rowlatt, said deaths worldwide were rising due to extreme weather caused by climate change – whereas the opposite is true. It also claimed Madagascar was on the verge of the first famine caused by climate change – despite other factors being involved.

Rowlatt's sister is a rapture cultist and has been arrested for her eco warrior activities for extinction rebellion.

Links notably absent.
 

bilby

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The Ministry of Truth (AKA BBC)
You do understand that this isn't a tabloid newspaper or right-wing talk show, right?

I mean, you would have made a much better impression on your audience here without making this stupid and cartoonish dig at the BBC before getting to the point.

Do you understand that?

Pitching your arguments at a very low intellectual level is a good idea if you are writing for the Daily Mail, but in here it just makes you look stupid, and detracts from any actual message you might have.

I am guessing that no internal investigation by the BBC referred to their own organisation as "The Ministry of Truth", so why the fuck did you decide to do so?

Or, perhaps, was your entire post cut and pasted from an infantile source such as the Mail? Are you perhaps not even able to come up with your own slurs?
 

Hermit

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The Ministry of Truth (AKA BBC) caught telling fibs;

A BBC Panorama documentary about global warming made a number of false claims, an internal investigation by the broadcaster has found. The programme Wild Weather, presented by climate editor Justin Rowlatt, said deaths worldwide were rising due to extreme weather caused by climate change – whereas the opposite is true. It also claimed Madagascar was on the verge of the first famine caused by climate change – despite other factors being involved.

Rowlatt's sister is a rapture cultist and has been arrested for her eco warrior activities for extinction rebellion.

Links notably absent.
 

steve_bank

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I am sure passengers on the Titanic slept well right up to that big thump they heard.
 

Swammerdami

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Let's go Brandon!
The Ministry of Truth (AKA BBC)
Rapture-like cult.
I mean, you would have made a much better impression on your audience here without making this stupid and cartoonish dig at the BBC before getting to the point.
I'll need a cite for the "much better impression." True, the "Ministry of Truth" dig is just as drivelish as the other quoted "sentences," but at least it's fresh material.
 

TSwizzle

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I am sure passengers on the Titanic slept well right up to that big thump they heard.

The “climate crisis/emergency/apocalypse etc” is a luxury gripe for the upper middle classes to virtue signal about as they drive up the street in their Tesla. I can’t imagine anyone hunkered down in places like Mariupol thinking that the “big thump” they just heard and felt was a .000001 degree average temperature increase calculated by some end of times cultist.

An end of times, doomsday, rapture like cult.
 

pood

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I am sure passengers on the Titanic slept well right up to that big thump they heard.

The “climate crisis/emergency/apocalypse etc” is a luxury gripe for the upper middle classes to virtue signal about as they drive up the street in their Tesla. I can’t imagine anyone hunkered down in places like Mariupol thinking that the “big thump” they just heard and felt was a .000001 degree average temperature increase calculated by some end of times cultist.

An end of times, doomsday, rapture like cult.

I still await your response to my linked refutation of your claim that all past climate change predictions have proved to be spectacularly wrong. If you continue to ignore this everyone will draw his or her own conclusions about your inclination to have a good-faith discussion as opposed to trolling.

A luxury gripe? Virtue signaling? Elitist? My goodness. Tell that to the inhabitants of Bangladesh whose residents live on about a dollar a day who are watching their shorelines being lapped away by rising waters because of climate change. Tell that to all the poor people throughout vast swathes of the Middle East and South central Asia, including most of India, who are facing lethal wet bulb 35 temperatures by century’s end unless we rein in global warming. Address this in light of the fact that all the cllimate change models, which for the last fifty years have been spectacularly accurate (if actually a bit UNDERSTATED) now show that the effects of climate change will fall most harshly on the world’s poorest, who had the least to do with dumping carbon into the atmosphere and trapping heat.

Cliimate change denialism really is like a cult, a cult fed by Fox News and other right-wing propagandists for the fossil-fuel industry and practically ever other retrograde idea or institution in the world.

Lets’s go Dump!
 

steve_bank

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There must be a web site where less than able critical thinkers go to get sound bites for climate change denials.

A luxury? California is running dry. In the news Ca has been considering desalinization.

Maybe I should be more explicit. The conservative climate deniers are the Titanic, a luxury cruise ship. Trump proclaiming we should use more coal.

Poetic justice would be Trump's Mira Lago getting flooded.

I still find it hard to believe there are actually people who think and talk like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson.
 

pood

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There must be a web site where less than able critical thinkers go to get sound bites for climate change denials.

A luxury? California is running dry. In the news Ca has been considering desalinization.

Maybe I should be more explicit. The conservative climate deniers are the Titanic, a luxury cruise ship. Trump proclaiming we should use more coal.

Poetic justice would be Trump's Mira Lago getting flooded.

I still find it hard to believe there are actually people who think and talk like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson.

I’m sure there is a web site, many in fact, for climate change deniers to get their sound bites. Fox News comes to mind.
 

TSwizzle

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A luxury? California is running dry. In the news Ca has been considering desalinization.

FFS, Steve, California is mostly desert and has droughts all through its history. Millions of people live here only because water is sourced artificially via man made lakes. And it’s about time the assholes that run this state addressed our water needs instead of wasting billions on a failed high speed rail project. I heard recently there are plans for a desalination plant in Orange County.
Maybe I should be more explicit. The conservative climate deniers are the Titanic, a luxury cruise ship. Trump proclaiming we should use more coal.
These asinine titanic analogies are pathetic. It really does show your religious tendencies. And no one, absolutely no one denies climate. You’re like a screeching baboon flinging shit in your enclosure.
Poetic justice would be Trump's Mira Lago getting flooded.

And Obama’s home will be just fine I suppose.

I still find it hard to believe there are actually people who think and talk like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson.
More shit flinging by a primate. Fox News, Hannity, Tucker, Trump, blah fucking blah.

An end of times, doomsday, rapture like cult.
 

steve_bank

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The Ca water shortage is here regardless of drought. La is unsustainable regardless of drought.

Yes Ca is a lot of dry desert, which is the point. Development and population growth beyond what resources can sustain. A 90s govt paper predicated the La region would begin having drinking water problems in these times without climate change.

Its pretty simple. A person needs a minimum amount of water per day. Industry needs water. Agriculture needs water. It is simple arithmetic.

X demand vs Y supply. Exacerbated by climate change.

Going back to the 19th century water allocation was always an issue in Ca. And politics. Eastern federal politicians determining western water allocation.

There is a reason why California is called LaLa Land.
 

TSwizzle

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The Ca water shortage is here regardless of drought. La is unsustainable regardless of drought.

Unsustainable? I wouldn't go that far. As I said earlier, the politicians that run the state have thrown money at a failed high speed rail project that we don't need rather than infrastructure we ALL need, i.e. water. And of course we have the environMENTALists blocking everything.

X demand vs Y supply. Exacerbated by climate change.

Climate change is a handy excuse for the incompetent politicians that run the state of California. It's bullshit of course but Newsom is sticking with that excuse.
 

pood

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A luxury? California is running dry. In the news Ca has been considering desalinization.

FFS, Steve, California is mostly desert and has droughts all through its history. Millions of people live here only because water is sourced artificially via man made lakes. And it’s about time the assholes that run this state addressed our water needs instead of wasting billions on a failed high speed rail project. I heard recently there are plans for a desalination plant in Orange County.
Maybe I should be more explicit. The conservative climate deniers are the Titanic, a luxury cruise ship. Trump proclaiming we should use more coal.
These asinine titanic analogies are pathetic. It really does show your religious tendencies. And no one, absolutely no one denies climate. You’re like a screeching baboon flinging shit in your enclosure.
Poetic justice would be Trump's Mira Lago getting flooded.

And Obama’s home will be just fine I suppose.

I still find it hard to believe there are actually people who think and talk like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson.
More shit flinging by a primate. Fox News, Hannity, Tucker, Trump, blah fucking blah.

An end of times, doomsday, rapture like cult.

When were you going to answer my linked refutation of your claim that all climate change predictions have been “spectacularly wrong?”

Of course you’re not going to.
 

bilby

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The Ca water shortage is here regardless of drought. La is unsustainable regardless of drought.

Yes Ca is a lot of dry desert, which is the point. Development and population growth beyond what resources can sustain. A 90s govt paper predicated the La region would begin having drinking water problems in these times without climate change.

Its pretty simple. A person needs a minimum amount of water per day. Industry needs water. Agriculture needs water. It is simple arithmetic.

X demand vs Y supply. Exacerbated by climate change.

Going back to the 19th century water allocation was always an issue in Ca. And politics. Eastern federal politicians determining western water allocation.

There is a reason why California is called LaLa Land.
Human beings have been incredibly successful at surviving in pretty much every terrestrial environment, because we use tools and technologies to allow us to do so.

Cities are incredibly hostile environments. They produce insufficient food, and typically have inadequate water too.

This isn't an actual problem. Unless we abandon technology, in which case somewhere between seven eighths and nine tenths of humans will die. So let's not do that.

LA is a wealthy region with very advanced technology available to it, and sits on the edge of the planet's largest body of open water. Desalination is cheap, well established technology.

LA will be just fine, as long as people there are not mind-bogglingly stupid. So they're probably fucked.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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The Ca water shortage is here regardless of drought. La is unsustainable regardless of drought.

Yes Ca is a lot of dry desert, which is the point. Development and population growth beyond what resources can sustain.
As opposed to NYC or Chicago? I'd say the drought is extraordinarily relevant!
A 90s govt paper predicated the La region would begin having drinking water problems in these times without climate change.

Its pretty simple. A person needs a minimum amount of water per day. Industry needs water. Agriculture needs water. It is simple arithmetic.
And unless the greater LA area is responsible for 100% of Southern California grown almond and walnut consumption, it isn't that simple.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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LA is a wealthy region with very advanced technology available to it, and sits on the edge of the planet's largest body of open water. Desalination is cheap, well established technology.

LA will be just fine, as long as people there are not mind-bogglingly stupid. So they're probably fucked.
I don't think so. The future is in training whales to herd icebergs. :D
 

Politesse

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As always, people are certain that California (by far the wealthiest, most populous, and one of the most beautiful US states) is secretly being run into the ground, but have no tangible solutions of their own to propose for addressing California's problems, just complaints. :rolleyes:

I do think that Newsom needs to grow a bit of a spine and seriously curtail industrial water use, though ideally this should be done carefully so as to avoid destroying our GDP in the process. The current aproach of asking residents to voluntarily cut back their usage is transparently failing. I think people are fatally tired of government regulation of their lives post pandemic -- it's going to require more than just asking a casual favor to address this, and private residences - which already greatly reduced their water usage in response to previous droughts - aren't really who needs to tighten their belts. We have the technology to greatly reduce industrial and agricultural uses without tanking productivity. Let's put our technology to use.

Actually, something that could really help is a bit more of a media panic about all this. I don't think most Californians at present have any idea how bad the situation is; we had some wet storms late in the season, and I suspect people who aren't paying much attention to their news feeds may not even have realized that our deficit is as serious as it is. We probably could reduce private residence usage if we were really trying. Here in the SF Bay region. I haven't seen anyone putting in a new lawn in ages, xeroscaping is in.
 

Loren Pechtel

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The Ca water shortage is here regardless of drought. La is unsustainable regardless of drought.

Unsustainable? I wouldn't go that far. As I said earlier, the politicians that run the state have thrown money at a failed high speed rail project that we don't need rather than infrastructure we ALL need, i.e. water. And of course we have the environMENTALists blocking everything.

What they're trying to block is unsustainable usage. Everybody's been doing it.

There is only one realistic answer for the long term and that is desalinization. It's expensive, though, and the right would prefer to trash the ecology before resorting to it.
 
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