Cop Indicted For Murder

[abaddon]

Why is it hard for police officers to comprehend that pulling a person’s car door open feels like a threatening gesture to many people? Is that alien to their minds, or do they just not care?

Here’s one man that’s dead, and the other charged with his murder because he didn’t comprehend or didn’t care how threatening that feels.

ETA: Well, didn’t understand or care… AND had a gun needlessly in hand and ready to just start blasting away in fright.

 

[laughing dog]

He is dead but there was no capital sentence and no execution. There is a difference between a police shooting, justified or not, and death penalty.

In the latter, you get a trial with a disinterested judge and jury, a chance for appeals. In the former, you just get killed.

 

[ZiprHead]

That booze bottle looked like it hadn't been opened yet. Just sayin'.

 

[Rhea]

The policeman shot a man and ended his life. And at no point ever was that appropriate to what was going on.

Really. It's better to kill a human being than to let them get away with driving on no license?
That's the decision that cop makes; what I see is so bad it would be better to shoot this man dead in the street than let him get away with it.
And now that the world can think this through, was that a right decision? Was it humane? Or was it horrible.
I vote horrible. Red-rage horrible.
"it would be better to shoot this man dead in the street than let him get away with UOV."

Hence, some of us think "murder" is the appropriate charge.

 

[RavenSky]

That booze bottle looked like it hadn't been opened yet. Just sayin'.

According to Dubose, it was diy air freshener. I wonder if anyone who is insisting Dubose was intoxicated has a reputable source for their claims, or anything factual to dispute that it was air freshener (other than their own bias against black men)

 

[Derec]

According to Dubose, it was diy air freshener.

I must have missed that part. I must admit it's a good excuse.

I wonder if anyone who is insisting Dubose was intoxicated has a reputable source for their claims, or anything factual to dispute that it was air freshener (other than their own bias against black men)

Nobody is "insisting". I said "likely" due to his behavior, not race.

 

[Derec]

Really. It's better to kill a human being than to let them get away with driving on no license?

The only way this shooting is justified is if DuBose tried to reach for something the officer thought might be a weapon. You cannot shoot somebody just for trying to get away.
That said, whether a shooting is justified or not (this one seems not) it is very stupid to act the way DuBose acted. In this case he got himself killed but if the cop hadn't shot him he'd just have added more charges to himself when caught.

Hence, some of us think "murder" is the appropriate charge.

Murder requires purposely killing somebody. I do not think there is any purpose here. The cop merely reacted to a quickly deteriorating situation.

My preliminary prediction is that the cop gets convicted on manslaughter but not on murder.

 

[Derec]

In the latter, you get a trial with a disinterested judge and jury, a chance for appeals. In the former, you just get killed.

In the latter, you are are already captured. In the former, you are not.
There are plenty of justifiable shootings, but cops and civilians alike, where the perp did not engage in anything like a capital crime. Hell, you can have a justifiable shooting even in states that have abolished the death penalty. So the "X wasn't a capital crime" non sequitur is just stupid.

 

[laughing dog]

In the latter, you get a trial with a disinterested judge and jury, a chance for appeals. In the former, you just get killed.

In the latter, you are are already captured. In the former, you are not.
There are plenty of justifiable shootings, but cops and civilians alike, where the perp did not engage in anything like a capital crime. Hell, you can have a justifiable shooting even in states that have abolished the death penalty. So the "X wasn't a capital crime" non sequitur is just stupid.

Not as stupid as your derail, since X is usually not a capital crime anywhere.

There is no evidence at this time that the police officer acted appropriately or was reasonably in fear for his life. Yet here you are, literally making up possible excuses for the killing of yet another black man by a police officer.

Murder requires purposely killing somebody. I do not think there is any purpose here. The cop merely reacted to a quickly deteriorating situation.

By purposively pointing his weapon at Dubose and purposively pulling the trigger in order to purposively maim him?

 

[fast]

Nm

 

[bilby]

Being stupid is not a crime at all. Much less a capital crime.

 

[abaddon]

Being stupid, and rude as fuck, seems to be part of being a police officer.

I am referring (again) to the officer freaking the shit out of the driver by just pulling at the door handle without explaining first that he wants the driver to exit the car.

Surely the police are trained to explain what actions they’re about to perform or what actions they want from the person if they’re going to apprehend them, rather than just suddenly grabbing at door handles or people's arms.

With Dubose, things looked calm up to the point the officer decided he’d freak the shit out of the driver by opening the door without a verbal warning first. The driver’s right hand was on top of the steering wheel at the time the officer reached down and pulled at the door handle. Dubose’s right hand only moved to the ignition after he realized the officer was suddenly trying to extract him from the car. He made no gestures indicating thinking about escape until he was startled by the officer suddenly getting physical.

Maybe he'd have tried to drive away had the officer said “I want you to open the door and step out of the vehicle”, but then maybe not. Surely it’s smartest to stay verbal as much as possible, and not make it physical so suddenly.

 

[repoman]

So did the cop pull the gun for the purpose of making the driver scared enough to comply and not drive away? Not saying that was a smart move. Because if that was the case, he got himself amped up and then pulled the trigger as a reflex.

I wonder if he pulled the gun exactly when he saw the driver intending to start the ignition.

or conversely did the driver start the ignition when he saw the cop think about reaching for his gun?

Things like this are a blur for sure.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

So did the cop pull the gun for the purpose of making the driver scared enough to comply and not drive away? Not saying that was a smart move. Because if that was the case, he got himself amped up and then pulled the trigger as a reflex.

I wonder if he pulled the gun exactly when he saw the driver intending to start the ignition.

or conversely did the driver start the ignition when he saw the cop think about reaching for his gun?

Things like this are a blur for sure.

Actually it appears he seems to have reached for his gun as soon as Dubose pulled the door closed and appeared unwilling to get out of his car.

 

[Derec]

Not as stupid as your derail, since X is usually not a capital crime anywhere.

Derail? I was merely responding to your asinine implication that something must be a capital crime for it to possibly lead to a justifiable homicide.

Yet here you are, literally making up possible excuses for the killing of yet another black man by a police officer.

On the contrary, I said that it was very likely manslaughter rather than justified homicide.

By purposively pointing his weapon at Dubose and purposively pulling the trigger in order to purposively maim him?

So is your assertion that there can't be such a thing as manslaughter with a gun? Or what's your point here?

 

[ZiprHead]

That booze bottle looked like it hadn't been opened yet. Just sayin'.

According to Dubose, it was diy air freshener. I wonder if anyone who is insisting Dubose was intoxicated has a reputable source for their claims, or anything factual to dispute that it was air freshener (other than their own bias against black men)

If I remember correctly, not going to bother to re-watch the vid, it looked like an unopened bottle of Gin and Juice.

 

[laughing dog]

Derail? I was merely responding to your asinine implication that something must be a capital crime for it to possibly lead to a justifiable homicide.

No one made such implication. The obvious point - which has been made repeatedly by many posters in plain english - is that Dubose did nothing that resembled an action that merited a killing/execution.

On the contrary, I said that it was very likely manslaughter rather than justified homicide.

Post #8 in this thread proves otherwise.

So is your assertion that there can't be such a thing as manslaughter with a gun? Or what's your point here?

The obvious point is that the police officer drew his weapon purpose, aimed it at the head of Dubose on purpose and fired on purpose. Now, unless, you think this means he was just firing a warning shot or was only trying to injure/maim Dubose, then clearly he meant to kill Dubose.

You are not fooling anyone with these tepid excuses and stupid derails.

 

[Derec]

No one made such implication. The obvious point - which has been made repeatedly by many posters in plain english - is that Dubose did nothing that resembled an action that merited a killing/execution.

That is not what words 'not a capital crime' means. Capital crime is a crime subject to death penalty, not an action subject to use of deadly force by a police officer.

Post #8 in this thread proves otherwise.

No it doesn't. Saying that something might provide "possible justification" is in no way contradictory to saying that the shooting is most likely not justified.

The obvious point is that the police officer drew his weapon purpose, aimed it at the head of Dubose on purpose and fired on purpose. Now, unless, you think this means he was just firing a warning shot or was only trying to injure/maim Dubose, then clearly he meant to kill Dubose.

I think he reacted to combative behavior by DuBose. Before then, the cop was calm and in no way seemed like somebody purposing to kill another human being
As I said, the situation escalated very quickly.

 

[Toni]

I must have missed that part. I must admit it's a good excuse.

I wonder if anyone who is insisting Dubose was intoxicated has a reputable source for their claims, or anything factual to dispute that it was air freshener (other than their own bias against black men)

Nobody is "insisting". I said "likely" due to his behavior, not race.

Yeah. Driving while black. That's a behavior, right?

 

[Derec]

Yeah. Driving while black. That's a behavior, right?

Driving with driver's licence suspended indefinitely and without front license plate.
But no, playing the race card is good too.